From: blakes7-d-request@lysator.liu.se Subject: blakes7-d Digest V99 #65 X-Loop: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se X-Mailing-List: archive/volume99/65 Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="----------------------------" To: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se Reply-To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se ------------------------------ Content-Type: text/plain blakes7-d Digest Volume 99 : Issue 65 Today's Topics: Re: [B7L] Too much caffeine Re: [B7L] Yet another Flat Robin (16), this time by Jacqueline Re: blakes7-d Digest V99 #64 RE: [B7L] Re It had to Happen Re: [B7L] Yet another Flat Robin (16), this time by Jacqueline [B7L] Chris Boucher/Star Cops RE: [B7L] Re It had to Happen Re: [B7L] Avon's background-- speculation Re: [B7L] Yet another Flat Robin (16), this time by Jacqueline RE: [B7L] Re: blakes7-d Digest V99 #64 Re: [B7L] Re: Too much caffeine Re: [B7L] Chris Boucher/Star Cops Re: [B7L] Re: Too much caffeine RE: [B7L] Oh, come on, it has to happen! -grin- Re: [B7L] Zen is not a IT !!! Re: [B7L] Too much caffeine Re: [B7L] Avon's background-- speculation Re: [B7L] Re: Too much caffeine Re: [B7L] Too much caffeine Re: [B7L] Avon's background-- speculation Re: [B7L] Re: Too much caffeine Re: [B7L] Avon's background-- speculation RE: [B7L] Oh, come on, it has to happen! -grin- Re: [B7L] Too much caffeine Re: [B7L] Re: Too much caffeine Re: [B7L] Re: Too much caffeine Re: [B7L] Too much caffeine Re: [B7L] Avon's background-- speculation Re: [B7L] Re: Too much caffeine Re: [B7L] Too much caffeine Re: [B7L] Re: Too much caffeine Re: [B7L] Chris Boucher/Star Cops ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 15:57:27 +0100 (BST) From: Judith Proctor To: Lysator List Subject: Re: [B7L] Too much caffeine Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII On Tue 16 Feb, Dunne, Martin Lydon - DUNML001 wrote: > Is the "Three Day Sweats" or "Terran Auge" in Killer supposed to be the same > passing effect as the "Cygnus Malady"? A brief discomfort on leaving the Solar > System, but ultimately it passes, it bears a resemblance. This would mean that > none of the crew who suffer from this have been in deep space before. This is > only possible if, presumably, none of them even know of this disease. Gan > comes down with it, and he is not even from Earth! I'd guess it was something different. The 'terran Ague' would have affected all prisoners on the London within a few days of leaving Earth. Thus, they would have been immune to the Curse of Cynus is it was a related illness. INcidentally, Gan coming form Zephron is not canonical. There's no reference to it in te series and it's implied in Pressure Point that he's from earth. Lots of things in the original publicity material were contradicted as the series developed. I never use it as a source. > > Further, Why would the aliens from Cygnus 61 send the Wanderer back to > Federation space at a point it was impossible to reach by its own? This tips > off Blake, but not the Fosferon base, they don't have Orac. Did the aliens know > this, or simply expect the humans to fall into their trap? It would probably still be stuck in 61 Cygni if they'd left it to travel at sub light speeds. can't infect anyone that way. > > What on EARTH (and off) did Robert Holmes mean by the word "Constellation"? As > I and astronomers understand it, it is an apparent pattern of stars caused by > their lining up due to a unique point of reference (the Earth). However, Holmes > always (and I use the term in the strongest sense) used it as a spatial > location. WHY? Does anyone have any advances on this? Yes, I'd guess Robert Holmes knew next to nothing about astronomy. Or if you really want to be kind, as space travel developed and people saw space in a 3d context and not 2d, then the term constellation came to mean a group of stars that were physically close, as opposed to looking close when viewed from earth. > > Why does Gan ask what the women/ghosts in Duel look like when he was the first > to see them? Is this another time of victimising the big slow one just to make > the others look better? The programme guide claims he (David Jackson) did not > like the limiter, and implies this is why he left. Was it his choice, or was he > simply the most expendable member of the crew? My understanding is that he didn't want to go, but the BBC felt that one of the crew had to die for realism's sake. Gan drew the short straw, though I gather Vila only escaped by a whisker. Sheelagh Well's tapes have some references to David Jackson leaving. > > When they mine the radioactive stuff in Horizon, Ro claims it is for the new > intergalactic ships. Is this a lead into the intergalactic war? Was the > Federation planning its own attack on Andromeda? There's two possble takes on this. One, they simply wanted to develop an intergalactic drive so they coul expand further. two, they had found an Andromedan scout ship and were aware of the risks and needed the drive to be able to intercept any invading fleet. > > Why was the fight between Avon and the computer dude cut in the 90's release of > Space Fall? To get a lower rating? This now makes "The Beginning" of some > value! I dubbed the fight, minus cuts to the flight deck and the prisoners > breaking out, after the end of my copy of Space Fall. It works as a continuous > scene. WHO did the editing for the 80's releases? Is there a special place in > HELL reserved for them? It was cut because it was deemed too violent (you can injure somebody's earing permanently that way, so it does make some sense not to show it to kids). I never missed the scene. I've seen worse cuts than that in other shows. I only object strongly to cuts that affect the meaning. > > Was Time Squad really shot first? This would explain the highly experimental > (getting into character) feel of the episode. Were any others filmed out of > running order? The outdoor parts of Time Squad were done first. I'm not sure about the interior work. This is often done so that the cast have time to gel before the 'first' episode is shot. Then the viewer can see the relationships better established in the initial episode. Filming patterns varied between the series as they used block filming later on. Adrian Rigglesford's dreadful book is of possible use if you're really interested in dates of filming. Sheelagh and Joe's book touches on it, but in more anecdotal fasion. The best reference of all for filming schedules is one of Marvel's B7 specials - but you'd have great trouble finding one of those. (No way am I parting with mine) > > Is Death-Watch the most unusually filmed episode? As opposed to special > effects, the camera work during the duel is pretty extraordinary. And then we > get a shot THROUGH Orac! Was there anything else in the series that was as > strange? Well, Travis gets shot through a fish tank in 'orac', but that was to disguise the fact that Stephen Greif wasn't there and there was a double wearing the outfit. > > Does Avon really have time, while trapped on Terminal and having let everyone > down, to give himself a new hair do? Isn't that a little vain? I could > empathise that he might be sick of the bowl cut , BUT......? A frequent problem when studio and location work were done on separate occasions. Makes for real continuity problems. Made even worse when there was a long gap between filming of the spearate seasons. Nobody knew there was going to be a 4th season until they heard the announcment when Terminal was being aired. > > What is the motivation in the third season? The Federation is smashed and > little empires are growing. They have lost one idealist, leaving one more, two > computers, two criminals. One more criminal and a blood feudist join up, and > proceed to get in lots of trouble- WHY? Is it as Tarrant says in Volcano, that > they are better equipped than other mercenary groups- they are now a mercenary > group? There is no motivation. The original intent was a 'looking for Blake' season, but it didn't turn out that way. In fact, if you look at the different episodes, they are mostly reacting to events rather than trying to do anything themselves. > > The motivation in fourth season is easier to understand- desperation. Everytime > they fly anywhere, Pursuit ships attack, never challenge, and just fire. Why > then does Soolin join them? She claims she sells her skill- what does she ever > receives? A miserable death, making Servalan rich and the Scorpio a great ship. > Doesn't she know that people who hang out with this mob DIE HORRIBLY and NEVER > GET RICH?!?!?!!??!!?!??!?? Well, it got her off Xenon for one thing. For another, you must remember that she had her own reason to hate the Federation. She didn't tell te others about it until gauda prime, but then she wasn't one to share her personal feelings. I imagine that claiming to be a mercenary saved her from having to explain any other motivation. Judith PS. There's a lot of interesting background information about the series in 'Blake's 7: the Inside Story' by Joe Nazzaro and Sheelagh Wells. I doubt whether anyone else could have done such a good job. Sheelagh worked on the series as a make-up artist and knew everyone from actors to directors. Joe has interviewed many people involved with the series going back many years (He used to edit 'The Freedon City Gazette') The list of people they spoke to in making the book is impressive. Actors, stunt men, SFX, writers, directors, producers, cameraman, etc. There's a review of the book on http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 under 'merchandise' and there's also reviews of Sheelagh and Joe's interview tapes. Quite apart from being frequently hilarious, the tapes also contain a lot of fascinating background material about the series. Who could forget David Maloney (producer) talking about what he did to the scripts in order to get around the budget problems? -- http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention 26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent http://www.smof.com/redemption/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 18:28:02 +0000 From: Julia Jones To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Yet another Flat Robin (16), this time by Jacqueline Message-ID: In message <19990216030718.16441.qmail@hotmail.com>, Penny Dreadful writes >In my defense, I *have* been posting for two...Arkaroo apparently >refuses to subscribe to this mailing list on account of its being chock >full of degenerates or some such... I thought that was The Other List? -- Julia Jones "Don't philosophise with me, you electronic moron!" The Turing test - as interpreted by Kerr Avon. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 11:31:22 -0700 From: "Joseph Brothers" To: , Subject: Re: blakes7-d Digest V99 #64 Message-ID: <00ab01be59da$fcaea880$aabafed0@oemcomputer> How do I unsubscribe from this? -----Original Message----- From: blakes7-d-request@lysator.liu.se To: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se Date: Tuesday, February 16, 1999 11:27 AM Subject: blakes7-d Digest V99 #64 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 19:39:44 +0100 From: Jacqueline Thijsen To: B7L Subject: RE: [B7L] Re It had to Happen Message-ID: <39DCDDFD014ED21185C300104BB3F99F10FB22@NL-ARN-MAIL01> Content-Type: text/plain Debra said: > I saw Guards! Guards! and if I recall the line ''you got all that out of > just that?'' was said by PD after a particularly difficult piece of > 'dialogue' that would have taken ages to really mime. > So it wasn't ad libbed. I must have mixed up a remark from one of those reports about there being a lot of ad libbing going on in the show with this particular scene. I still think it was funny (the original scene, not neccesarily the scene I made out of it). By the way, Penny, does my installment (part 21) count as one of the two others that have to write something before you chime in again? 'Cause my head is empty again. I hope inspiration strikes me again in the night, like it did last time. Jacqueline ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 10:50:24 PST From: "Penny Dreadful" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Yet another Flat Robin (16), this time by Jacqueline Message-ID: <19990216185024.10143.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-type: text/plain >I thought that was The Other List? Guilt by association. Perversion seepage. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 18:54:44 +0100 (BST) From: Judith Proctor To: Lysator List cc: Space City Subject: [B7L] Chris Boucher/Star Cops Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII 'An Instinct For Murder', Chris Boucher's novelisation of the first episode of his mini-series 'Star Cops' is now available in print for the first time. Featuring a full colour cover by Jason Fletcher and interior art by Kevin Davies, Kathryn Andersen and Andrew Williams, this is a novel that will appeal to both those who watched Star Cops and those who missed it. Chris Boucher was script editor for the entire series of Blake's 7 and wrote scripts for both Blake's 7 and Dr Who. Many people have found points of similarity between Blake's 7 and Star Cops. These similarities show up more in later episodes of Star Cops as more characters are introduced (and Chris is willing to have his second novel also published as a fanzine if there is sufficiant interest in this one), but this first novel is worth reading as an excellent piece of detective science fiction in its own right. This is hard SF, not space opera. It's set in the near future and involves no FTL drives, no aliens, and no futuristic devices (apart from Box, who is remarkably reminiscent of Orac). Nathan Spring is a policeman. He's a good one. He's happy in his job and has no desire whatsoever to go into space (especially as he gets space sick). Unfortunatly, he's been conned into applying for a job with the International Space Police Force, a body that garners so little respect that people refer to them disparagingly as 'Star Cops'. People are dying in space. Space suits are failing. The computer says the deaths are within the limits of statistical probability; Nathan doesn't fully trust computers. But if there is a crime, what is the motive and how is it being carried out? Although this is being published as a fanzine, it was originally written with the intention of being published as a professional novel. (I don't know why it wasn't. I suspect Star Cops was too small a series for a main-stream publisher to be interested. It certainly wasn't for want of good writing) This makes it virtually unique among zines as it is published with the full consent of the copyright holder. A portion of the cover price will go to Chris Boucher. Although this is essentially a genzine, people should be aware that it contains a fair bit of bad language and a small amount of sex. It's greatly expanded from the episode as seen on screen and the special effects are better . Word count 62,200 That's about 85 A4 pages of story. Order from Judith Proctor, 28 Diprose Rd, Corfe Mullen, Wimborne, Dorset, BH21 3QY, England England 8 pounds, Europe 9 pounds, USA 10.50 or $18 cash, Aus 11 pounds -- http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention 26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent http://www.smof.com/redemption/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 11:06:42 PST From: "Penny Dreadful" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: RE: [B7L] Re It had to Happen Message-ID: <19990216190642.18134.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-type: text/plain Sister Jacqueline, Chief Acolyte and Deputy Vice Minister of Cruelty for the Free Vegetarian Republic of Penny (nee FINALACT Apocalyptic Commune) bowed low and said: >Penny, does my installment (part 21) count as one of the two >others that have to write something before you chime in again? 'Fraid not, because I submitted another one after that. Part 22, to be more specific (technically, I went back and counted them, Part 24, but renumbering at this juncture could cause confusion). So cough up, kids! --Penny "Or We Kill This Dog" Dreadful ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 18:55:05 +0000 From: Julia Jones To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Avon's background-- speculation Message-ID: In message <19990216153903.13765.qmail@hotmail.com>, Stephen Date writes >From Ravella's insistence that >he not eat or drink for 36 hours they were also drugging Blake to be on >the safe side. It appears in _The Way Back_ that they are drugging nearly everyone. -- Julia Jones "Don't philosophise with me, you electronic moron!" The Turing test - as interpreted by Kerr Avon. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 20:51:12 +0000 From: Julia Jones To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Yet another Flat Robin (16), this time by Jacqueline Message-ID: In message <19990216185024.10143.qmail@hotmail.com>, Penny Dreadful writes >>I thought that was The Other List? > >Guilt by association. Perversion seepage. > I suppose about 95% of the perverts are over here as well... -- Julia Jones "Don't philosophise with me, you electronic moron!" The Turing test - as interpreted by Kerr Avon. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 22:10:18 +0100 From: Jacqueline Thijsen To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: RE: [B7L] Re: blakes7-d Digest V99 #64 Message-ID: <39DCDDFD014ED21185C300104BB3F99F10FB23@NL-ARN-MAIL01> Content-Type: text/plain Joseph asked: > How do I unsubscribe from this? > I've bookmarked http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7/Fanclubs/index.html. It's one of Judith's pages and gives the direct links to all the information about all three B7 lists. Jacqueline ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 17:32:08 -0000 From: "Alison Page" To: "lysator" Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Too much caffeine Message-ID: <000201be59f1$6effc980$ca8edec2@pre-installedco> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Neil said - >Let's postulate that the fastest Federation ships are perhaps three times >faster than London. They can reach Star One from Earth in as little as >three years - ship time. Presumably 'real' time is longer still. If >distances of that magnitude are commonplace within the Federation, could it >be viable as that repressive military empire we all know and love? I'm not >sure that it could be. What about the British Empire in the 18th century before they got steam ships? Well OK it wasn't quite as tight or repressive as the Federation, but it did exercise control with delays of years between hub and periphery. I did hear that the news that India had been annexed (or whatever it was) by Clive, didn't reach London until literally years had gone by. As usual this is way out of my field so I could be wrong. On the other hand I quite like to think that the speed of FTL travel is variable according to the local density of matter, so that out on the far edge of the galaxy where Star One is, you can go much faster than in the more cluttered arm where most of the Federation worlds are. One of my favourite hard SF books is 'A Fire on the Deep' by Vernor Vinge, and it uses a variation on this theme. Well worth a read. Alison ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 07:38:40 +1100 From: Kathryn Andersen To: "Blake's 7 list" Subject: Re: [B7L] Chris Boucher/Star Cops Message-ID: <19990217073840.38116@welkin.apana.org.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On Tue, Feb 16, 1999 at 06:54:44PM +0100, Judith Proctor wrote: > 'An Instinct For Murder', Chris Boucher's novelisation of the first episode of > his mini-series 'Star Cops' is now available in print for the first time. > > Featuring a full colour cover by Jason Fletcher and interior art by Kevin > Davies, Kathryn Andersen and Andrew Williams, this is a novel that will appeal > to both those who watched Star Cops and those who missed it. > Although this is being published as a fanzine, it was originally > written with the intention of being published as a professional > novel. (I don't know why it wasn't. I suspect Star Cops was too > small a series for a main-stream publisher to be interested. It > certainly wasn't for want of good writing) This makes it virtually > unique among zines as it is published with the full consent of the > copyright holder. A portion of the cover price will go to Chris > Boucher. Oh good. > Although this is essentially a genzine, people should be aware that it > contains a fair bit of bad language and a small amount of sex. It's > greatly expanded from the episode as seen on screen and the special > effects are better . Yes, I'd give it an "M" rating, not an "R" rating. But only for certain scenes, obviously. What was the tag that they used to advertise the Doctor Who New Adventures? "too deep for the small screen?" For those familiar with the pilot episode of Star Cops, this does have some notable differences, basically (a) to tidy up the small plot holes which the original episode had (mainly to do with how Our Hero survived), and (b) to put in a few things that weren't really possible on the small screen. Some changes are pretty minor, like eating at two different restaurants instead of the same one twice (presumably it was cheaper to have one set for a restaurant instead of two), and other things are extensions of scenes, with a bit more explanation. Only an improvement, for anyone who likes to know "why". Not that the original episode was full of holes, not at all. This just gives more details. Good stuff. I'm not sure how it would come across to someone who hadn't seen the episode first. That is an experience I am not able to have. So he wrote another one? That would be interesting to see! Kathryn Andersen -- _--_|\ | Kathryn Andersen / \ | http://home.connexus.net.au/~kat \_.--.*/ | #include "standard/disclaimer.h" v | ------------| Melbourne -> Victoria -> Australia -> Southern Hemisphere Maranatha! | -> Earth -> Sol -> Milky Way Galaxy -> Universe ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 21:35:06 -0000 From: "Alison Page" To: "Blake's 7 list" Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Too much caffeine Message-ID: <008b01be59f4$534e8660$ca8edec2@pre-installedco> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Iain said - >The planet in "Cygnus Alpha" has an Earth-like atmosphere: if the star in >question is Deneb, this atmosphere must have come from somewhere other >than photosynthesis. I'm going to wave my hands and say that the geology >was such that sufficient oxygen was produced by outgassing from the rocks. >Since I know about this much --> . about geochemistry that speculation is >probably bollocks, mind you. I am pretty sure that you can only get an oxygen atmosphere if you have some process which is constantly liberating oxygen from chemical bonds. That's because oxygen is so very reductive that it would be quickly absorbed by oxidation. So to get free oxygen in the atmosphere you have to produce enough to rust all the iron on the planet, and oxidise every other exposed surface, and only then does it start building up. I am pretty sure that the only process we know about that can liberate free oxygen in this way is photosynthesis, and even on earth it took a couple of billion years to get to the levels we have now. Thus you can't have a lifeless world with an oxygen atmosphere (like they do in every SF TV show). >In terms of trying to guess the possibilities or otherwise of >extraterrestrial life, this kind of whittling down is a bit pointless. Of course, but in terms of writing believable science fiction that doesn't get on someone's nerves it is quite salient. Alison ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 15:47:24 PST From: "Joanne MacQueen" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: RE: [B7L] Oh, come on, it has to happen! -grin- Message-ID: <19990216234724.2413.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-type: text/plain >Hmm, I suppose omnivores can join us. But only after fasting for a >day and swearing they will mend their evil ways with one hand in >Offlers mouth. Highpriestess Penny will then graciously grant >permission to submit something to this holy vegetarian crusade. >Jacqueline No need for Offler, Jacqueline. Just put me in a room with some heavy smokers, and I won't be eating anything at all, animal or vegetable. Unholy tobacco as an agent for the holy vegetarian crusade? Regards Joanne ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 18:32:29 -0800 From: Pat Patera To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Zen is not a IT !!! Message-ID: <36C8D8BD.20E0@geocities.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kathryn Andersen wrote: > We need a new pronoun. How about "e"? Like "he" with the "h" chopped > off, or "she" with the "sh" chopped off. E is good. Once tried was (s)he. It never caught on. What has caught on in the US is "they." The once plural pronoun is now used in both singular and plural reference. *sigh* most people are simply not sufficiently imaginative to create and adopt a new word. Instead, they corrupt an old one. > Possibly capitalized, like > "I". (Why is "I" capitalized anyway?) I read that English is the only major world language that does capitalize the I. The proposed reason has something to do with having a culture that lionizes the individual (rather than collective society). Pat P ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 22:00:06 -0700 From: Helen Krummenacker To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Too much caffeine Message-ID: <36CA4CD6.E34@jps.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Re: meaning of 'constellation' as applied in B7. (Obviously not meaning picture made by stars in the sky.) Language evolves.... Okay, a system of a star or a binary system including planets surrounding, is NOT a solar system. There is only one Sol, our nearest star. So the others can be described alternatively as planetary systems or star/stellar systems, if one is looking for a better term. If it is a planetary system, than what about a planet & it's moons? Do they become a moon system? It doesn't seem appropriate. So we choose stellar or star system for the star and planets. Then, what about a group of stars, travelling in a synchronous manner while not being obviously in orbit, nor compact/numerous enough to be called a cluster? A constellation. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 22:06:33 -0700 From: Helen Krummenacker To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Avon's background-- speculation Message-ID: <36CA4E59.41F1@jps.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Furthermore, memory modification and other adjustments certainly seem to be the > exception, rather than the rule; otherwise, surely they would have tried to > condition Jenna, competent pilots being a rather valuable commodity, as we are > told in several eps (I remember this being mentioned in 'Harvest' and 'Moloch', > among others); but there is no hint of them doing anything with Jenna other than > just shipping her off to Cygnus. Uh, actually, I think pilot would be the _worst_ type to try conditioning. They have mobility, if they break their conditioning. On slip, and they go away, and you never find them again. Conditioning expenses down the toilet, plus you lose ship and crew! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 22:25:19 -0700 From: Helen Krummenacker To: "Blake's 7 list" Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Too much caffeine Message-ID: <36CA52BE.E4C@jps.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Alison Page wrote: > > Iain said - > > >The planet in "Cygnus Alpha" has an Earth-like atmosphere: if the star in > >question is Deneb, this atmosphere must have come from somewhere other > >than photosynthesis. I'm going to wave my hands and say that the geology > >was such that sufficient oxygen was produced by outgassing from the rocks. > >Since I know about this much --> . about geochemistry that speculation is > >probably bollocks, mind you. > > I am pretty sure that you can only get an oxygen atmosphere if you have some > process which is constantly liberating oxygen from chemical bonds. That's > because oxygen is so very reductive that it would be quickly absorbed by > oxidation. So to get free oxygen in the atmosphere you have to produce > enough to rust all the iron on the planet, and oxidise every other exposed > surface, and only then does it start building up. I am pretty sure that the > only process we know about that can liberate free oxygen in this way is > photosynthesis, and even on earth it took a couple of billion years to get > to the levels we have now. Thus you can't have a lifeless world with an > oxygen atmosphere (like they do in every SF TV show). Well, you can't survive on a lifeless planet lolng either. There must be at least some life producing food. I would guess centuries ago, The Federation dropped cheap terraforming equipment, stuff that wouldn't make it nice, but would eventually make it livable. After enough time had passed, they started leaving the criminals there, with the assumption that eventually the convicts would turn it into a productive enough place to be worth turning into a proper colony world. Then they would start shipping criminals to a new barely-livable place. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 00:34:02 EST From: Pherber@aol.com To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Too much caffeine Message-ID: Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2/16/99 9:48:25 AM Mountain Standard Time, ijc@bsfiles.nerc-bas.ac.uk writes: << It's especially good on stellar end-states: all the stuff about white dwarfs, black holes and neutron stars is pretty sound. >> Yeah, well, up until they fly through the black holes......... Nina ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 00:34:03 EST From: Pherber@aol.com To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Avon's background-- speculation Message-ID: <6c349dcf.36ca54cb@aol.com> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2/16/99 7:51:36 AM Mountain Standard Time, mistral@ptinet.net writes: << Vila may be both clever and amusing, but as a candidate for a 'fountain of truth and honesty', he leaves a little something to be desired. >> Touche! Bad choice of example...point to you, I think. Withdrawing strategically, Nina ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 00:34:01 EST From: Pherber@aol.com To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Too much caffeine Message-ID: <2589c8ce.36ca54c9@aol.com> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2/16/99 7:02:32 AM Mountain Standard Time, ijc@bsfiles.nerc-bas.ac.uk writes: << There is no reliable theory of planetary formation which can tell us what kinds of planets are likely to be found at what distance from what kinds of stars, so SF writers can quite cheerfully make up whatever suits them. >> As I recall, the usual argument against O, B and A class stars having planetary systems capable of harboring life is (or used to be, at any rate) that the darned things were so massive that they go through their normal lifecycle and blow up before higher lifeforms have a chance to develop. Of course, that refers to indigenous life, developing on an earth-like timescale, as opposed to a colony. Not that it's worth letting it get in the way of a good story, eh? ......Nina ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 21:45:20 -0800 From: mistral@ptinet.net To: B7 list Subject: Re: [B7L] Avon's background-- speculation Message-ID: <36CA576F.434329AA@ptinet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Pherber@aol.com wrote: > Withdrawing strategically, > Nina Oh, goodness, Nina, don't withdraw, we're just having fun, yes? As I said before, I'm so glad to have people to talk to who know something about B7. My brain definitely needs the exercise. Grinning broadly, Mistral -- "And for my next trick, I shall swallow my other foot."--Vila ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 07:12:20 +0100 From: Jacqueline Thijsen To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: RE: [B7L] Oh, come on, it has to happen! -grin- Message-ID: <39DCDDFD014ED21185C300104BB3F99F10FB24@NL-ARN-MAIL01> Content-Type: text/plain Joanne said: > No need for Offler, Jacqueline. Just put me in a room > with some heavy smokers, and I won't be eating anything at all, animal > or vegetable. > > Unholy tobacco as an agent for the holy vegetarian crusade? > Unholy indeed . I'm a non smoker myself and I think that stuff smells really bad . Are you sure you wouldn't rather go for Offler? We keep the tobacco locked away in a very deep pit into which are thrown the irredeemably damned. Jacqueline Acolyte in charge of torture and singing in the holy vegetarian crusade ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 19:51:45 +1100 From: Kathryn Andersen To: "Blake's 7 list" Subject: Re: [B7L] Too much caffeine Message-ID: <19990217195145.18965@welkin.apana.org.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 12:34:02AM -0500, Pherber@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 2/16/99 9:48:25 AM Mountain Standard Time, > ijc@bsfiles.nerc-bas.ac.uk writes: > > << It's especially good on stellar end-states: all the stuff about > white dwarfs, black holes and neutron stars is pretty sound. >> > > Yeah, well, up until they fly through the black holes......... But the "black hole" in Dawn of the Gods wasn't a black hole anyway - it was an artificial gravity generator. -- _--_|\ | Kathryn Andersen / \ | http://home.connexus.net.au/~kat \_.--.*/ | #include "standard/disclaimer.h" v | ------------| Melbourne -> Victoria -> Australia -> Southern Hemisphere Maranatha! | -> Earth -> Sol -> Milky Way Galaxy -> Universe ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 10:36:08 +0000 (GMT) From: Iain Coleman To: lysator Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Too much caffeine Message-Id: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Tue, 16 Feb 1999, Alison Page wrote: > > What about the British Empire in the 18th century before they got steam > ships? Well OK it wasn't quite as tight or repressive as the Federation, but > it did exercise control with delays of years between hub and periphery. > > I did hear that the news that India had been annexed (or whatever it was) by > Clive, didn't reach London until literally years had gone by. As usual this > is way out of my field so I could be wrong. > Regardless of the speed of travel, B7 does have effectively instantaneous interstellar communication. In "Horizon" we see how this is used to enforce colonial rule on distant planets. A small ruling body of Federation officials and loyal local leaders takes care of the day-to-day running of things, with regular communications with Earth to keep tabs on everything. It seems workable to me (in terms of politics, if not necessarily physics). Iain ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 10:48:47 +0000 (GMT) From: Iain Coleman To: "Blake's 7 list" Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Too much caffeine Message-Id: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Tue, 16 Feb 1999, Alison Page wrote: > Iain said - > > >The planet in "Cygnus Alpha" has an Earth-like atmosphere: if the star in > >question is Deneb, this atmosphere must have come from somewhere other > >than photosynthesis. I'm going to wave my hands and say that the geology > >was such that sufficient oxygen was produced by outgassing from the rocks. > >Since I know about this much --> . about geochemistry that speculation is > >probably bollocks, mind you. > > > I am pretty sure that you can only get an oxygen atmosphere if you have some > process which is constantly liberating oxygen from chemical bonds. That's > because oxygen is so very reductive that it would be quickly absorbed by > oxidation. That's kind of what I thought. So to get free oxygen in the atmosphere you have to produce > enough to rust all the iron on the planet, and oxidise every other exposed > surface, and only then does it start building up. I am pretty sure that the > only process we know about that can liberate free oxygen in this way is > photosynthesis, and even on earth it took a couple of billion years to get > to the levels we have now. Thus you can't have a lifeless world with an > oxygen atmosphere (like they do in every SF TV show). > OK, but given that empirical observation of SF TV shows has shown that lifeless, oxygen-rich planets abound there must be some physical explanation. I postulate a geochemical process (called, say, the Coleman process) which maintains a dynamic equilibrium in the atmospheres of many planets of roughly Earth mass. Perhaps an enhanced rate of tectonic activity (lots of these planets have dramtic volcanoes and stuff, don't they?). Oxidised rocks are melted, thrown into the upper atmosphere in aerosol form where hard UV radiation frees the oxygen? > >In terms of trying to guess the possibilities or otherwise of > >extraterrestrial life, this kind of whittling down is a bit pointless. > > Of course, but in terms of writing believable science fiction that doesn't > get on someone's nerves it is quite salient. If you really need a particular kind of planet in a particular kind of orbit round a particular kind of star you can always just say it's a special case. Astronomy is full of them. I would go as far as to say that any process which does not violate the laws of physics happens _somewhere_ in the cosmos. Iain ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 10:53:17 +0000 (GMT) From: Iain Coleman To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Too much caffeine Message-Id: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Tue, 16 Feb 1999, Helen Krummenacker wrote: > Then, what about a group of stars, travelling in a synchronous manner > while not being obviously in orbit, nor compact/numerous enough to be > called a cluster? A constellation. An open cluster. Iain ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 05:57:39 PST From: "Stephen Date" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Avon's background-- speculation Message-ID: <19990217135743.5062.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-type: text/plain Julia wrote: >In message <19990216153903.13765.qmail@hotmail.com>, Stephen Date > writes >>From Ravella's insistence that >>he not eat or drink for 36 hours they were also drugging Blake to be on >>the safe side. > >It appears in _The Way Back_ that they are drugging nearly everyone. I think that this is where I'm supposed to do a Captain Mainwaring and say "Well done Pike, I was hoping one of you was going to spot the deliberate mistake". In mitigation, I think it is likely that not everyone in the Way Back is drugged. I assume that the great and the bad - ie Glynd and the others aren't. I also got the feeling that Ravella and the other chap whose name escapes me weren't drugged. If only because I don't think Foster was likely to get them involved with the plan to bring Blake back on board if they were prone to intermittent Federation mind control. I would guess that a lucky few were considered sufficiently senior or safe not to be drugged and everyone else was doped. Blake despite brainwashing wasn't considered safe. He was however kept around as a symbol. That was the (admittedly questionable) reasoning behind my comment. I realise I could probably have expressed myself more clearly. Stephen. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 09:48:23 -0700 From: Helen Krummenacker To: "Blake's 7 list" Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Too much caffeine Message-ID: <36CAF2D6.59EB@jps.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > If you really need a particular kind of planet in a particular kind of > orbit round a particular kind of star you can always just say it's a > special case. Astronomy is full of them. I would go as far as to say that > any process which does not violate the laws of physics happens _somewhere_ > in the cosmos. > > Iain So where is A'Tuin? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 09:54:03 -0700 From: Helen Krummenacker To: "Blake's 7 list" Subject: Re: [B7L] Too much caffeine Message-ID: <36CAF42B.4E37@jps.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Iain Coleman wrote: > > On Tue, 16 Feb 1999, Helen Krummenacker wrote: > > > Then, what about a group of stars, travelling in a synchronous manner > > while not being obviously in orbit, nor compact/numerous enough to be > > called a cluster? A constellation. > > An open cluster. > > Iain But is that term perfect enough (widespread, comfortably descriptive, obviously accurate, easy to say and be understood even when your spaceship is being rocked by combat) to be left unchanged after a thousand years? Robert Holmes just forgot to translate that term into correct modern usage-- because we know that after that much time, virtually nothing spoken would be intelligigible to English-speakers today. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 16:35:27 +0000 (GMT) From: Iain Coleman To: "Blake's 7 list" Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Too much caffeine Message-Id: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Wed, 17 Feb 1999, Helen Krummenacker wrote: > > If you really need a particular kind of planet in a particular kind of > > orbit round a particular kind of star you can always just say it's a > > special case. Astronomy is full of them. I would go as far as to say that > > any process which does not violate the laws of physics happens _somewhere_ > > in the cosmos. > > > > Iain > > So where is A'Tuin? > > Considering A'Tuin's size and luminosity, it probably counts as dark matter. Hey, I think I've just hit on something... Coleman, I J, "Giant turtles as candidate halo objects", Astrophysical Journal, 1999 (in prep). Iain ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 07:45:55 +0100 (BST) From: Judith Proctor To: Lysator List Subject: Re: [B7L] Chris Boucher/Star Cops Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII On Tue 16 Feb, Kathryn Andersen wrote: > Yes, I'd give it an "M" rating, not an "R" rating. But only for > certain scenes, obviously. What was the tag that they used to > advertise the Doctor Who New Adventures? "too deep for the small > screen?" For those familiar with the pilot episode of Star Cops, this > does have some notable differences, basically (a) to tidy up the small > plot holes which the original episode had (mainly to do with how Our > Hero survived), and (b) to put in a few things that weren't really > possible on the small screen. Some changes are pretty minor, like > eating at two different restaurants instead of the same one twice > (presumably it was cheaper to have one set for a restaurant instead of > two), and other things are extensions of scenes, with a bit more > explanation. Only an improvement, for anyone who likes to know "why". > Not that the original episode was full of holes, not at all. This > just gives more details. Good stuff. I'm not sure how it would come > across to someone who hadn't seen the episode first. That is an > experience I am not able to have. I tried it on my sister who isn't a Blake's 7 fan and had never seen a single episode of Star Cops. She reads a lot of SF and was very enthusiastic about it as a straight SF novel. > > So he wrote another one? That would be interesting to see! He wrote a second novel that covers the other four episodes that he wrote of the series. If you look at the crime scenes in the first novel, they're providing the hooks for the subsequent novel. They have to be in the first novel as Chris was sticking tightly to the correct timeline for events. Judith -- http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention 26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent http://www.smof.com/redemption/ -------------------------------- End of blakes7-d Digest V99 Issue #65 *************************************