From: blakes7-d-request@lysator.liu.se Subject: blakes7-d Digest V99 #73 X-Loop: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se X-Mailing-List: archive/volume99/73 Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="----------------------------" To: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se Reply-To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se ------------------------------ Content-Type: text/plain blakes7-d Digest Volume 99 : Issue 73 Today's Topics: [B7L] Made another attempt to pitch a B7 Handbook... [B7L] I'm back... Urgh... Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs Re: [B7L] B7 and Shakespeare Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs Re: [B7L] Myer's Briggs Re: [B7L] Avon's background-- speculation [B7L] Redemption update Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs [B7L] B7 help Re: [B7L] Fannishness (The Volcano Indoctrination Strategy) Re: [B7L] Fannishness [B7L] Introductions [B7L] Introductions - Apologies Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs [B7L] fannishness [B7L] Re: Myer's Briggs Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs RE: [B7L] I'm back... Urgh... Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs Re: [B7L] Re: Roche limit Re: [B7L] Shakespeare and B7 Re:[B7L] Shakespeare and B7 RE: [B7L] Myers Briggs RE: [B7L] Charged with attempted filking... Re: [B7L] Shakespeare and B7 Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs Re: [B7L] Shakespeare and B7 Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs [B7L] Re: Mary Sues [B7L] Re: Julius Caesar Re: [B7L] Re: Julius Caesar Re: [B7L] Re: Julius Caesar ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 13:25:00 -0000 From: "Dangermouse" To: Subject: [B7L] Made another attempt to pitch a B7 Handbook... Message-Id: <199902221332.NAA29959@gnasher.sol.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To Virgin, that is. Basically they said that the revamped Programme Guide and Joe & Sheelagh's book didn't sell well enough to justify another one. So it looks like I'll be doing Voyager instead. Sorry folks.... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 14:51:23 +0000 (GMT) From: Una McCormack To: Lysator Subject: [B7L] I'm back... Urgh... Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII If I ever tell any of you again that I don't suffer from jetlag, you can just tell me straight away that I'm a bloody liar. New Zealand was fabulous, but it's nice to be home. All that time away from e-mail - it was like going cold turkey. Una the Seriously Shattered ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 14:05:37 -0000 From: "Alison Page" To: "B7 list" Subject: Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs Message-ID: <00aa01be5e6c$836eace0$ca8edec2@pre-installedco> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Myers-Briggs is one of my hobbies. in fact it has retained my interest longer than most of my hobby-horses do. I am always kind of reluctant to talk about MBTI on the B7 lists, because it involves a lot of background stuff that isn't always of interest to other people. (and because I am prone to careless errors on this as all subjects) But on the other hand, we do have minority-interest-threads on other topics, so I say go for it - and people can skip as long as we use sensible headers. I have found that B7 has really helped me to hold my own in MBTI circles, despite massive gaps in my background knowledge. When a personality type comes up I think of the B7 equivalent, and describe that. [*] Interesting that all three enthusiasts (so far) are NTP (I am ENTP). I think Pat and Lisa are keen and I guess they are NTJ (correct me if I'm wrong ladies) The most perennial MBTI controversy is whether Avon is INTJ or INTP. I plump fair and square for INTJ, on the basis that INTP types are far too mild mannered. I am amused to note that there is a mailing list for INTJ's ('I'm in hell and it's full of Avons' ;-) I am even more amused to note that the list is one of the rudest on the Internet, and that once you have subscribed they won't give you instructions about how to unsubscribe - you have to find out for yourself by investigation. Sounds just about right to me. All in all the combination of B7 and MBTI has given me hours of harmless fun. Alison [*] For instance a discussion thread was 'how do you recognise ENTJ types'. I thought of Servalan, and said 'dress in an intimidating manner, often have severe haircuts, use their physical appearance consciously to get their own way', which was apparently a good answer. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 00:50:28 +1000 From: Kiersten Boughen To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990223005028.007a8b30@senet.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 11:39 AM 22/02/99 GMT0BST, VJC wrote: >Antone interested in getting back to that interesting temperment >analysis strand? > >Vick > >Sociopath and INTP I'd love to. Kiersten ENTJ (never thought of myself as a sociopath) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 08:26:10 -0600 From: Lisa Williams To: Subject: Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs Message-Id: <199902221423.IAA15054@mail.dallas.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Alison Page wrote: >Interesting that all three enthusiasts (so far) are NTP (I am ENTP). I think >Pat and Lisa are keen and I guess they are NTJ Yes -- INTJ in my case (very strong I & T, moderate N, weak J). We NTs tend to like analyzing things, you know. >The most perennial MBTI controversy is whether Avon is INTJ or INTP. I plump >fair and square for INTJ, on the basis that INTP types are far too mild >mannered. I'm standing firm that he is, by nature, an INTP who -- mostly through force of circumstances -- is trying to pass for an INTJ. Left to choose according to his own preferences, I think Avon would be quite solidly INTP. It's a fairly minor conflict, since the two types are so simliar (unlike one character in another fandom whom I think is in a similar situation, but the two types are of different *temperaments* -- now, he's really messed up.) - Lisa _____________________________________________________________ Lisa Williams: lcw@dallas.net or lwilliams@rsc.raytheon.com Lisa's Video Frame Capture Library: http://lcw.simplenet.com/ New Riders of the Golden Age: http://www.warhorse.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 14:35:57 +0000 (GMT) From: Iain Coleman To: Alison Page Cc: B7 list Subject: Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs Message-Id: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Mon, 22 Feb 1999, Alison Page wrote: > Myers-Briggs is one of my hobbies. in fact it has retained my interest > longer than most of my hobby-horses do. > > I am always kind of reluctant to talk about MBTI on the B7 lists, because it > involves a lot of background stuff that isn't always of interest to other > people. (and because I am prone to careless errors on this as all subjects) > But on the other hand, we do have minority-interest-threads on other topics, > so I say go for it - and people can skip as long as we use sensible headers. I strongly support this suggestion, mainly because Una's just back from NZ and a huge discussion of Myers-Briggs classifications would be such a lovely welcome-back present for her. Iain ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 14:36:48 +0000 (GMT) From: Iain Coleman To: B7 list Subject: Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs Message-Id: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Mon, 22 Feb 1999, Alison Page wrote: > > [*] For instance a > discussion thread was 'how do you recognise ENTJ types'. I thought of > Servalan, and said 'dress in an intimidating manner, often have severe > haircuts, use their physical appearance consciously to get their own way', > which was apparently a good answer. Oh my God, my brother is Servalan. I feel all queasy. Iain ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 14:44:23 -0000 From: "Alison Page" To: "B7 list" Subject: Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs Message-ID: <001e01be5e72$1a595f60$ca8edec2@pre-installedco> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >I strongly support this suggestion, mainly because Una's just back from NZ >and a huge discussion of Myers-Briggs classifications would be such a >lovely welcome-back present for her. > >Iain > Oi! Iain you are supposed to be INTJ. I have just said that INTJ people are rude and inconsiderate and then you go and say something kind and thoughtful. Are you trying to make me look daft or what? Hmmpph Alison ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 01:50:37 +1100 From: "Afenech" To: "B7 list" Subject: Re: [B7L] B7 and Shakespeare Message-Id: <14370518309439@domain1.bigpond.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Afenech wrote: actually it was Pat Fenech who absent-mendedly decideed to be anonymous -smile- > > > Paul Darrow used to say the role he'd most like to do is 'Coriolanus' and > > it's a roel I'd love to see him play. Mistral replied: > > You are all making me quite wish that we were all quite rich and could > bankroll a production company for the express purpose of producing > Shakespeare's plays using B7 stars and guests in all the roles. . ah yes!!!! Pat F ------------------------------ Date: 22 Feb 1999 15:49:10 +0100 From: Calle Dybedahl To: "B7 list" Subject: Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs Message-ID: "Alison Page" writes: > [*] For instance a > discussion thread was 'how do you recognise ENTJ types'. I thought of > Servalan, and said 'dress in an intimidating manner, often have severe > haircuts, use their physical appearance consciously to get their own way', So how would you recognise us INFPs? -- Calle Dybedahl, Vasav. 82, S-177 52 Jaerfaella,SWEDEN | calle@lysator.liu.se Maintainer of the Blake's 7 mailing list. Mail for info. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 14:52:38 GMT0BST From: "VJC" To: Kiersten Boughen CC: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs Message-ID: <22815AC304A@OU20.nwservers.iso.port.ac.uk> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 00:50:28 +1000 To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se From: Kiersten Boughen Subject: Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs At 11:39 AM 22/02/99 GMT0BST, VJC wrote: >Antone interested in getting back to that interesting temperment >analysis strand? > >Vick > >Sociopath and INTP I'd love to. Kiersten ENTJ (never thought of myself as a sociopath) That would be because you're an Idealist. Actually, I know an ENTJ who is very rich, an Egyptian, a singer and a 'fellow traveller'. He's a whole bunch of contradictions and he doesn't trust me....I wonder why? Vick Idealism is a wonderful thing.... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 14:58:35 GMT0BST From: "VJC" To: alison@alisonpage.demon.co.uk CC: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs Message-ID: <2282E727B5F@OU20.nwservers.iso.port.ac.uk> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > Reply-to: "Alison Page" > From: "Alison Page" > To: "B7 list" > Subject: Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs > Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 14:05:37 -0000 > The most perennial MBTI controversy is whether Avon is INTJ or INTP. I plump > fair and square for INTJ, on the basis that INTP types are far too mild > mannered. > > > Mild Mannered? What ever gave you THAT idea? I've just thrown the Avon example to the folks on the INTP list - They seem to agree with me that he's one of US. Anyway, from where I see it, Avon was a much nicer guy than most people credit him for. The Avon personality cult was perpetuated by Vila. Vick. Brains, but no heart (and no idea of linear time) > > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 15:01:44 GMT0BST From: "VJC" To: Lisa Williams CC: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs Message-ID: <2283BA67024@OU20.nwservers.iso.port.ac.uk> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > I'm standing firm that he is, by nature, an INTP who -- mostly through > force of circumstances -- is trying to pass for an INTJ. Left to choose > according to his own preferences, I think Avon would be quite solidly INTP. > It's a fairly minor conflict, since the two types are so simliar (unlike > one character in another fandom whom I think is in a similar situation, but > the two types are of different *temperaments* -- now, he's really messed up.) > To whom do you refer? Vick> Brains but no heart (and no intention to properly file those papers on the floor) > _____________________________________________________________ > Lisa Williams: lcw@dallas.net or lwilliams@rsc.raytheon.com > > Lisa's Video Frame Capture Library: http://lcw.simplenet.com/ > New Riders of the Golden Age: http://www.warhorse.com/ > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 07:08:34 -0800 From: mistral@ptinet.net To: B7 list Subject: Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs Message-ID: <36D172F1.A19719BD@ptinet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Calle Dybedahl wrote: > So how would you recognise us INFPs? An Avon who never lost his teddy bear? Mistral -- "And for my next trick, I shall swallow my other foot."--Vila ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 15:17:40 +0000 (GMT) From: Iain Coleman To: B7 list Subject: Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs Message-Id: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Mon, 22 Feb 1999, Alison Page wrote: > >I strongly support this suggestion, mainly because Una's just back from NZ > >and a huge discussion of Myers-Briggs classifications would be such a > >lovely welcome-back present for her. > > > >Iain > > > > Oi! Iain you are supposed to be INTJ. I have just said that INTJ people are > rude and inconsiderate and then you go and say something kind and > thoughtful. Are you trying to make me look daft or what? Oh, but Alison, you missed the deeply sarcastic tone of voice. My Evil Bastard credentials remain intact. Iain ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 10:25:35 EST From: Tigerm1019@aol.com To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs Message-ID: <113e8b3b.36d176ef@aol.com> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit It sounds like fun to me. Tiger M (INFP and borderline insane to hear my family tell it) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 15:24:45 -0000 From: "Neil Faulkner" To: "lysator" Subject: Re: [B7L] Myer's Briggs Message-ID: <007d01be5e79$7d993940$6619ac3e@default> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-7" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit What the f--k is Myers Briggs? Neil ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 15:28:14 -0000 From: "Neil Faulkner" To: "lysator" Subject: Re: [B7L] Avon's background-- speculation Message-ID: <007e01be5e79$7e37ea40$6619ac3e@default> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hellen wrote: >Let me, basing on my own experience in living in totalitarian society, to >say, that the usual way, one use to challenge authority _never_ is a crime. >The crime level in the totalitarian societies is even lower, than in >democratic ones. I didn't know I suspected this until Hellen pointed it out. It makes a lot of sense. Neil ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 15:54:58 +0000 From: Steve Rogerson To: Space City , Lysator Subject: [B7L] Redemption update Message-ID: <36D17DD1.3472E5EA@mcr1.poptel.org.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit For those coming to Redemption this weekend, here's a few notes about timings. It starts at 2pm on the Friday. The dealers room will be open 2-6pm on Friday. Friday afternoon from 2pm there will be a single stream of programme items and two video streams. The registration desk will open mid Friday afternoon but if you arrive earlier you can register at Ops, which will be on the first floor overlooking reception (just ask at reception for directions). For those who have volunteered to be stewards, there will be a stewards meeting at 7pm and another at 9.30am on Saturday, both in the Wishart room. If you haven't volunteered to be a steward but would like to (hint, hint) turn up at one of these meetings and make yourself known. The opening ceremony will be at 8pm on Friday and the pub quiz at 9pm (note, an hour earlier than said in Progress Report 3). There will be a disco from 10pm to 2am. Things start at 10am on Saturday and there will multi streams of programming going on throughout the day. The dealers room will open from 10am to 6pm on Saturday and Sunday. The last main item on Saturday will be the fancy dress and cabaret from 8-10pm, but the glam rock and Rocky Horror disco will run from 10am to 2pm. On Friday and Saturday there are the odd late programming item. Sunday the show runs from 10am to 8pm, though from 4pm it will be back to single programme stream plus two video streams. Anyone still left after 8pm can join the committee in the boulevard as we wind down with alcohol and things. Finally, if you have any household junk such as empty washing up liquid bottles, egg cartons etc, please bring them along for people to use in the chaos modelling session. The more stuff we get, the more imaginative models people can make. If there are any last minute questions, email me direct as I may not have time to read the digests properly before I go. And don't expect any answers after late Wednesday afternoon. -- cheers Steve Rogerson Redemption 99: The Blakes 7 and Babylon 5 convention 26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Ashford, Kent http://www.smof.com/redemption/ "Get in there you big furry oaf, I don't care what you smell" Star Wars ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 15:59:03 -0000 From: "Alison Page" To: "B7 list" Subject: Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs Message-ID: <007c01be5e7c$94f21000$ca8edec2@pre-installedco> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Calle said - >So how would you recognise us INFPs? Hey, watch it, the list master will be telling us off for going off topic. Hmm... Well my 'use the B7 equivalent' breaks down here, unless you count minor characters. I would also guess Calle that your F/T distinction is not great so that you are also partly INTP. MBTI people get very cross if you link personality type with physical characteristics. But if you mean 'recognise' in the broad sense. INFP is the classic sensitive type. My sister, son and cleaning lady are all INFP and they are all nicer people than me by miles, but they also all have ferocious tempers. If you have read 'Down with Skool' think Fotherington Thomas. If you have read 'The Lathe of Heaven' think George Orr. Alison ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 16:05:58 -0000 From: "Alison Page" To: "B7 list" Subject: Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs Message-ID: <00a501be5e7d$57bd4fa0$ca8edec2@pre-installedco> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >Oh, but Alison, you missed the deeply sarcastic tone of voice. My Evil >Bastard credentials remain intact. > >Iain All that remains then is for you to invent a lovely smiley symbol to represent sardonic cynicism. anyway Una likes MBTI. :-P Alison ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 16:04:59 -0000 From: "Debra Collard" To: "B7L" Cc: "space city" Subject: [B7L] B7 help Message-ID: <000101be5e7d$1c0eaf80$4c1c883e@whisson1globalnet.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I had a problem once before with my mail server which I solved with help from people on this list. The problem has now come back with a vengeance. I keep getting duplicate mail over and over, so far today in the last 6 hours I have received over 1300 messages all of which I have had to delete one at a time, my server has now just informed me that it is downloading a further 758 messages! Question, can I delete messages in a block rather than one at a time and if so how. Either me or this computer is going to have to go out for a long walk in a minute, I am so frustrated with the thing I could put a brick through it. Thanks debra ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 09:25:13 -0800 From: mistral@ptinet.net To: B7 list Subject: Re: [B7L] Fannishness (The Volcano Indoctrination Strategy) Message-ID: <36D192F8.8DFBA983@ptinet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Russ Massey wrote: > Volcano? I can't imagine ever showing that to someone as their first > taste of B7, but obviously you must be a good judge of character. Why, thank you. Yes, I'm a very good judge of character--which is a ridiculous thing to say since most people think that about themselves. In any case, it would be difficult not to be a good judge of the character of someone who has been your closest friend for well over twenty years, particularly as we're both INTP/J (erp, wrong thread ). But as to why I chose Volcano/City to indoctrinate her... Actually, Volcano was my favorite ep for a long time, and I have probably seen it the most (25-30 times, at a guess), although I am currently fixated on 'Killer'. Watching Blakes 7 is how I self-medicate against severe, chronic depression (with an occasional phase of near-mania); therefore, I look for the funny bits. I can always find *something* to laugh at B7 about, with my twisted, absurdist sense of humor. So while I like all of the characters (with the exception of Servalan, who gives me actual nightmares), I most enjoy watching interactions between Avon and Vila, and (IMHO) Volcano/City have some of the best in the third season. In Volcano: Vila claiming to be clever enough to be a space captain, and Avon mocking him; Cally and Vila in the teleport, where V's saying the volcano wouldn't dare swallow A; and also the scene on the flight deck, when V's explaining to A what's been going on while he (A)'s been a little out of it. City's got: Avon threatening Tarrant about Vila; Avon sneering at Tarrant as he goes to rescue Vila; Vila gets the girl and saves the day, against everybody's expectations; Avon threatening Bayban about Vila (and it took me a while to recognize the subtle-yet-extreme menace of A's attitude here); Vila turns out to be fine, so Avon goes back to insulting him ('every silver lining has a cloud'); Avon reluctantly congratulating Vila and welcoming him back. Okay, so I was deliberately manipulating my friend by using Volcano to set up City. I promise you, had she known, she wouldn't have minded, as it resulted in her having a pleasant first-time B7 experience. She immediately grasped the A-V bicker, A-V take care of each other dichotomy and seized on it as a sibling-type relationship (exactly how I see it, and exactly how I wanted her to see it. She and I both consistently savage her little brother, but heaven help anybody else who does!) My interpretation of Avon's attitude to the others is that he (secretly and very-nearly-subconciously) hero-worships Blake, but that Vila is his real best friend/sibling/playmate; and everybody else is pretty much irrelevant (although, given more time, Soolin might have achieved some importance with him). It's best left to the imagination what happened to my equilibrium the first time I saw 'Orbit'. End result being, that now I can show my friend the whole series, and she will be so busy looking for A-V bits that her aversion to science fiction will be suppressed long enough for her to become attached to the show as a whole (a well-thought-out strategy of which I am justifiably proud ). Re Bounty, Butterflies, and Plot: > It's an all time favourite character-revealing scene of mine as well, > and yet was probably improvised at short notice because of the > paucity of Nation's original script. I'm glad someone else thinks this is a good scene. I'm grateful to Terry Nation for creating B7, but I've long thought that it was Chris Boucher who breathed life into it. Your point about Jenna and the manacles is well taken; I always thought the rest of them were a little stupid about that. > My summary of the plot would be: > > The Liberator is taken over. Jenna joins the attackers. Has she sold > out the crew? > > The rest is padding. The Sarkoffs needn't be in the story at all. Actually, I wasn't asking specifically about Bounty's plot, but eps with good plots, but you did list some at the beginning of your post. You have to admit though, that Bounty's plot is a little thin? Literally no plot is actually nearly impossible to do (it just seems that way sometimes). Even your hypothetical two characters locked in a room begs the questions, what (if anything) will they talk about, will they try to get out, will they get out? Thanx Russ, for your interesting post; now I shall have to buy some of Judith's zines in order to help pay her phone bill. In person I am actually quite taciturn, but give me a keyboard, and my lurking storyteller emerges-- who hasn't, unfortunately, the patience or wit to write fiction. Mistral -- "And for my next trick, I shall swallow my other foot."--Vila ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 12:36:28 EST From: Pherber@aol.com To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Fannishness Message-ID: <5c5a70da.36d1959c@aol.com> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2/21/99 3:09:15 PM Mountain Standard Time, yorick@tip.nl writes: << Real Mary Sues are easy to recognize. They're *very* pretty, *very* clever and extremely brave. In gen stories they end up kissing Avon, in het stories they end up in bed with Avon, and in slash stories they end up in an Avon/Tarrant sandwich. :)))) >> Or maybe an Avon/Blake sandwich. (drool...) Nina ------------------------------ Date: 22 Feb 1999 09:41:20 -0800 From: "Ma.James" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Introductions Message-ID: >Susan Beth wrote: >I note that new people are continuing to answer my "justify" post, and >the messages don't point to any easy answer. There are those who post >and are uneasy about lurkers, there are lurkers who are uneasy about >being forced to post. What's really wonderful is that both point to >"shyness" as the major reason for how they feel..... >> If it's shyness, maybe it would help to introduce new members. I have a friend who is on a small list of about 30 or 40 people. Whenever a new member joins, the listmom sends out a short message saying "Hello everyone. Welcome new member 'Jane Doe'" -- usually, several people respond with "hello, welcome" or "welcome, who is your fave character" -- this helps break the ice for a newbie since it encourages them to post right away and lets them feel more comfortable about posting. I'm not looking to add to Susan Beth's workload but I wonder if that would work here? Candace ------------------------------ Date: 22 Feb 1999 09:45:42 -0800 From: "Ma.James" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Introductions - Apologies Message-ID: Please accept my apologies. I sent this message to the wrong list. I intended it for Space City. I promise in the future I will stop daydreaming about Avon long enough to pay attention to which elist I am sending to. Candace ------------------------------ Date: 22 Feb 1999 18:48:41 +0100 From: Calle Dybedahl To: B7 list Subject: Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs Message-ID: mistral@ptinet.net writes: > > So how would you recognise us INFPs? > An Avon who never lost his teddy bear? Hmmm. The teddy bear my father gave me when I was a couple of days old *is* sitting on a shelf a meter and a half behind me... -- Calle Dybedahl, Vasav. 82, S-177 52 Jaerfaella,SWEDEN | calle@lysator.liu.se Please pay no attention to the panda in the fridge. ------------------------------ Date: 22 Feb 1999 09:49:14 -0800 From: "Ma.James" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] fannishness Message-ID: >>Kathryn wrote: >>I suppose you couldn't give any actual *examples* of "too-cannonish" >>writing so we can get a more precise handle on what you mean? >N.Faulkner@tesco.net writes: >I'm stuck between shifts at the moment so I don't have time to trawl through >my zine collection looking for examples. But there are quite a few of them. No way you're getting off that easy, Neil. If you can make the statement, you can offer examples. Besides, I'm really curious to see what you consider "too-canonish" Candace ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 17:43:13 -0000 From: "Susan Bennett" To: "Lysator" Subject: [B7L] Re: Myer's Briggs Message-ID: <00ca01be5e8d$bb64d5e0$7990cbc1@compaq> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>> INFPs? Raises hand. Susan -------------------------------------------------- http://www.geocities.com/TelevisionCity/Network/9754/ ebonyben@geocities.com susanb@iol.ie ------------------------------ Date: 22 Feb 1999 19:06:02 +0100 From: Calle Dybedahl To: "B7 list" Subject: Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs Message-ID: "Alison Page" writes: > I would also guess Calle that your F/T distinction is not great so > that you are also partly INTP. You'd be rather wrong. Several tests over the past 7 years all place me at >90% F. The N/S is the "weak" bit, at only 75% N. > If you have read 'The Lathe of Heaven' think George Orr. Hm. -- Calle Dybedahl, Vasav. 82, S-177 52 Jaerfaella,SWEDEN | calle@lysator.liu.se Please pay no attention to the panda in the fridge. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 19:09:58 +0100 From: Jacqueline Thijsen To: Lysator Subject: RE: [B7L] I'm back... Urgh... Message-ID: <39DCDDFD014ED21185C300104BB3F99F10FB40@NL-ARN-MAIL01> Content-Type: text/plain Welcome back, Una. I missed you, and I'm sure that goes for all of us. > New Zealand was fabulous, but it's nice to be home. All that time away > from e-mail - it was like going cold turkey. > Brrrr. I usually hate to be without e-mail even for a few days. Jacqueline ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 10:27:43 -0800 From: mistral@ptinet.net To: B7 list Subject: Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs Message-ID: <36D1A19E.21048C09@ptinet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Darn, I did it again! Sorry Vick, meant this to go to the list the first time. But I'll add a bit: If the question went to the INTJs, would they claim Avon too? VJC wrote: > I've just thrown the Avon example to the folks on the INTP list - > They seem to agree with me that he's one of US. I really think he's so borderline that there's no real way to resolve it; did they give any reasons why? His temper screams INTP, but his methodical nature and ability to make quick decisions when necessary scream INTJ almost equally loudly. Of course, he does worry and second-guess himself a lot, which is P behaviour...Okay, he's P, yeah, definitely P! I think... > Anyway, from where I see it, Avon was a much nicer guy than most > people credit him for. Yes, than *most* people credit him for, although some people go too far in this direction, I think. Those (IMHO) are mostly F types who want to ascribe him F motivations-- it's hard, I think, for Fs and borderlines to understand that NT motivations are in their own way as compassionate and virtuous as F motivations... a big source of the conflict between Avon and Blake, also Avon and Cally. > The Avon personality cult was perpetuated by > Vila. Hmmm? I think this might be interesting if I understood it. Please elaborate. Mistral INTP nearly J -- "And for my next trick, I shall swallow my other foot."--Vila ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 09:47:11 +0100 (BST) From: Judith Proctor To: Lysator List Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Roche limit Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII On Mon 22 Feb, David Henderson wrote: > > >From Harriet: > > >Iain wrote: > >>(This would be so much easier with a blackboard, you know.) > > > >Perhaps, if we could rustle up a blackboard at Redemption (hey, some of us > >should be there a week from now!), you and Neil could stage an extra > >workshop to demonstrate the possibly contesting, possibly complementary > >theories? > > > And then someone could post the images to the Redemption web site for us > clueless and geographically challenged ones. Iain, Fancy a flip chart (or possibly an OHP depending on the room) and a time slot to talk about Roche's limit and any other good scientific conundrums in B7? (We couldn't get the images onto the web unless someone had a handy digital camera though) I don't know if many people would come (simply because it would be on the noticeboard and not in the programme book) but if there's interest, it would seem to be worth doing. Judith -- http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention 26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent http://www.smof.com/redemption/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 08:04:09 +0100 (BST) From: Judith Proctor To: Lysator List Subject: Re: [B7L] Shakespeare and B7 Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII On Sun 21 Feb, Julia Jones wrote: > In message <36D0693A.8F9CF630@ptinet.net>, mistral@ptinet.net writes > >Actually, there is a wish that might be doable; I fancy an audiotape of > >G.T. and P.D. reading the sonnets. Oh, those lovely voices! Just think > >of Gareth doing "Let me not to the marriage of true minds admit > >impediments..." or "Let me confess that we two must be twain..." or Paul > >doing "In faith, I do not love thee with mine eyes..." or (my personal > >favorite) "Canst thou, O cruel! say I love thee not..." > > > > Now that *is* a nice idea. Wonder if anyone can be persuaded to take it > up? Suggest it to Sheelagh. You're her assistant at Redemption... She has Paul and Gareth both to hand when doing her interview tapes. I'm not sure that she'd go for it though. Predicting sales on something like that is tricky and I don't think she could afford to do something like that as well as the interview tapes. Judith PS. Cross your fingers. 'Solstice' may be available at Redemption, but it's touch and go as to whether the duplicating will be finished in time. -- http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention 26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent http://www.smof.com/redemption/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 09:37:33 +0100 (BST) From: Judith Proctor To: Lysator List Subject: Re:[B7L] Shakespeare and B7 Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII On Sun 21 Feb, mistral@ptinet.net wrote: > My personal choice would be a younger P.D. doing series C Avon doing > Hamlet, and G.T. can be Laertes, and M.K. can be Horatio. Just to amuse > myself, I'll add Stephen Greif and Brian Croucher as Rosencrantz and > Guildenstern , and Orac as Polonius. I just love the idea of Orac as Polonius. > The problem with Hamlet is the usual one, though: by the time you're old > enough to *understand* Hamlet, you're arguably too old to *play* Hamlet. > Perhaps we could develop an anti-aging formula, and then we could have G.T. as > Romeo, with P.D. as Mercutio and Josette Simon as Juliet. Or perhaps you'd > volunteer for Juliet ? Only one catch with that. I don't fancy a younger version of Gareth nearly as much. Tell you what, he can be a grizzled Othello and I'll have Desdemona. > > > My second choice would be Gareth doing Lear again with Paul as Kent. > > > I can see I'm going to be watching my King Lear tape tonight. I just got out my copy of the book . Great minds think alike. > (I cannot believe I am suggesting this. I did promise myself I would remain > unobtrusive on this list for several months at least. Obviously, I have failed > miserably. Ah, me.) What's the point in being unobtrusive? When you've something interesting to say, toss it into the melting pot. There's no rule saying that new list members should defer to older ones. Sometimes new members post things we've heard a thousand times before, and sometimes they produce thoughts that make me take a new look at things that I'd felt certain about for years. Judith aka Desdemona -- http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention 26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent http://www.smof.com/redemption/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 19:30:02 +0100 From: Jacqueline Thijsen To: B7 list Subject: RE: [B7L] Myers Briggs Message-ID: <39DCDDFD014ED21185C300104BB3F99F1D589E@NL-ARN-MAIL01> Content-Type: text/plain > Calle Dybedahl wrote: > > > So how would you recognise us INFPs? > And mistral answered: > An Avon who never lost his teddy bear? > This makes me almost afraid to ask how us ISTJ's could be recognised. I took the test on the internet, but when I got back the ISTJ-score, I didn't really recognise myself in it. Maybe that's because I secretly hoped to be INTJ, just like Avon ;-). Jacqueline ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 19:42:55 +0100 From: Jacqueline Thijsen To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: RE: [B7L] Charged with attempted filking... Message-ID: <39DCDDFD014ED21185C300104BB3F99F10FB42@NL-ARN-MAIL01> Content-Type: text/plain Joanne said: > So forgive me if you've received this > previously, because I'm not so sure of forgiveness for what follows... > No need for forgiveness here, I loved it. It's a good thing I don't know that tune, though, or I might be tempted to try singing it . Jacqueline ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 10:46:23 -0800 From: mistral@ptinet.net To: B7 list Subject: Re: [B7L] Shakespeare and B7 Message-ID: <36D1A5FE.B56B56B@ptinet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Butting in again: Judith P wrote, to Julia re getting a sonnet tape made: > Suggest it to Sheelagh. You're her assistant at Redemption... > > She has Paul and Gareth both to hand when doing her interview tapes. I'm not > sure that she'd go for it though. Predicting sales on something like that is > tricky and I don't think she could afford to do something like that as well as > the interview tapes. I suggest finding out what Sheelagh's break even point is, in numbers of tapes. Perhaps some advance orders could be taken here and on Space City, and perhaps there are some Shakespeare discussion groups? (Or perhaps, if it's unworkable, they could just tag on a sonnet here and there on the interview tapes.) Perhaps some dreams are worth having. Mistral -- "And for my next trick, I shall swallow my other foot."--Vila ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 10:57:05 -0800 From: mistral@ptinet.net To: B7 list Subject: Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs Message-ID: <36D1A880.38F28CC2@ptinet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jacqueline Thijsen wrote: > This makes me almost afraid to ask how us ISTJ's could be recognised. I took > the test on the internet, but when I got back the ISTJ-score, I didn't > really recognise myself in it. Maybe that's because I secretly hoped to be > INTJ, just like Avon ;-). > > Jacqueline Sidestepping the issue of Avon's P/J status, the test isn't always right. Take it again in a few days, or find one of the books and take a different test. Read some of the tons of descriptions on the net. The best way to sort out your type is by learning to understand the differences in each pair, and deciding which style of processing you use. If you have a significant other interested in this stuff, discussing it can really help you narrow it down. It took me weeks of research and discussion to decide whether I'm really an INTP or INTJ (which is why the debate over Avon always amuses me). Sorry if that sounds like a sermon. My personal motto is 'pontificato ergo sum'. Mistral -- "And for my next trick, I shall swallow my other foot."--Vila ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 11:30:57 -0800 From: mistral@ptinet.net To: B7 list Subject: Re: [B7L] Shakespeare and B7 Message-ID: <36D1B071.4B172520@ptinet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Judith Proctor aka Desdemona wrote: > What's the point in being unobtrusive? When you've something > interesting to say, toss it into the melting pot. There's no rule saying that > new list members should defer to older ones. The point in being unobtrusive is in not making a complete ass of oneself . Too much self-disclosure is a real danger from behind the safety of a keyboard, which trap I promised myself I'd not fall into, and I have been treading perilously close the last day or two. (IRL I am so antisocial I'd make Avon look like a social butterfly, and Orac look good-natured.) As for having something interesting to say, that presupposes that one can actually tell when one is being interesting, which I never can. I did not choose my sig file by accident. Still, I am currently basking in the glow of having been noticed by the demi-goddess that is Judith Proctor . Actually, I'm hoping that this garrulous streak I seem to be having will make itself absent when the novelty of having other B7 fen to talk to wears off. I have been 'alone and silent' for years now. I was completely stunned when I got on the internet and discovered that I was not the only crazy. 'It makes it all seem worthwhile, somehow'. Cheers, Mistral -- "And for my next trick, I shall swallow my other foot."--Vila ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 11:42:05 -0800 From: mistral@ptinet.net To: B7 list Subject: Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs Message-ID: <36D1B30C.A4864182@ptinet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Calle Dybedahl wrote: > Hmmm. The teddy bear my father gave me when I was a couple of days old > *is* sitting on a shelf a meter and a half behind me... What I *really* want to know is, how does this relate to the panda in the frig? Mistral -- "And for my next trick, I shall swallow my other foot."--Vila ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 14:42:18 -0500 From: Harriet Monkhouse <101637.2064@compuserve.com> To: "INTERNET:blakes7@lysator.liu.se" Subject: [B7L] Re: Mary Sues Message-ID: <199902221442_MC2-6B67-FA72@compuserve.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I remember I was so tickled when I discovered that this was an established genre with a name that I resolved on the spot to give my own alter ego the first name of Marisu... Harriet Mary Sues without Guilt ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 14:42:21 -0500 From: Harriet Monkhouse <101637.2064@compuserve.com> To: "INTERNET:blakes7@lysator.liu.se" Subject: [B7L] Re: Julius Caesar Message-ID: <199902221442_MC2-6B67-FA74@compuserve.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Mistral wrote: >I've never seen this version; but if it's your favorite play, > then your opinion must surely be considered informed Basically, I've never seen a production that was as slashy as I'd do it! But the Mason/Gielgud/Brando one did actually get my stomach twisting at the start of Act 3: I found I was screwing myself up to stick a knife into somebody (which fortunately I've never needed to do in real life). Pat is absolutely right - a tape of Julius Caesar with Gareth doing Brutus and Paul Cassius would be a dream. Harriet ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 12:06:43 -0800 From: mistral@ptinet.net To: B7 list Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Julius Caesar Message-ID: <36D1B8D3.975A165C@ptinet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Harriet Monkhouse wrote: > Pat is absolutely right - a tape of Julius Caesar with Gareth doing Brutus > and Paul Cassius would be a dream. Go on, then, cast the rest of it! I vote for Michael doing Mark Antony this time, with Charleton Heston as an enraged plebe . Mistral -- "And for my next trick, I shall swallow my other foot."--Vila ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 15:29:44 EST From: Mac4781@aol.com To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Julius Caesar Message-ID: <9124552d.36d1be38@aol.com> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Mistral wrote: > Go on, then, cast the rest of it! I vote for Michael doing Mark Antony this > time, with Charleton Heston as an enraged plebe I love it! I guess that leaves Octavius Caesar for Steven (since he's now a bit too tall to play Lucius). (Any excuse for skin, I say, recalling the JC scene where Richard Chamberlain/Octavius was getting a back rub. ) Carol Mc -------------------------------- End of blakes7-d Digest V99 Issue #73 *************************************