From: blakes7-d-request@lysator.liu.se Subject: blakes7-d Digest V99 #9 X-Loop: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se X-Mailing-List: archive/volume99/9 Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="----------------------------" To: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se Reply-To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se ------------------------------ Content-Type: text/plain blakes7-d Digest Volume 99 : Issue 9 Today's Topics: Re: blakes7-d Digest V98 #300 Re: blakes7-d Digest V98 #304 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 09:18:45 GMT From: "Dita Stanistraken" To: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se, blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: blakes7-d Digest V98 #300 Message-Id: Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 17:09:11 +0100 (MET) > From: blakes7-d-request@lysator.liu.se > Subject: blakes7-d Digest V98 #300 > To: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se > Reply-to: blakes7@lysator.liu.se > ------------------------------ > > Content-Type: text/plain > > blakes7-d Digest Volume 98 : Issue 300 > > Today's Topics: > Re: [B7L] Cally's telepathic powers > Re: [B7L] Cally's telepathic powers > [B7L] Carnell - thanks > Re: [B7L] Re: Voyager and B7 > Re: [B7L] Re: Voyager and B7 > [B7L] Re: Carnell > [B7L] Re: Languages > Re: [B7L] Carnell - thanks > Re: [B7L] Cally's telepathic powers > Re: [B7L] Cally's telepathic powers > Re: [B7L] Cally's telepathic powers > Re: [B7L] Cally's telepathic powers > Re: [B7L] Cally's telepathic powers > Re: [B7L] Re: Voyager and B7 > Re: [B7L] Re: Brian C's one man show > Re: [B7L] Cally's telepathic powers > Re: [B7L] Orac and Marvin > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 10:21:11 +0100 (MET) > From: "Jeroen J. Kwast" > To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se (mailing list) > Subject: Re: [B7L] Cally's telepathic powers > Message-Id: <199812030921.KAA25770@pampus.gns.getronics.nl> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > > > > Cally didn't read the Commisar's mind - she'd got the date from Orac after > > asking it to look up records of executions and the like. She was however, > > trying to make it *appear* that she could read minds as she realised it was > > impressing Ro. > > > > She can sense very strong emotions like Vila's pain when his arm was broken. > > She sensed Avon's unease in 'Hostage', but could not read his mind to deterimne > > the exact cause. She could only suspect. > > > > Judith > > -- > > > Hello, > > Just a reminder, Cally did put a thought into Ro his mind about the > possibility that the commissar might kill him (later on). It could also be possible that > he sensed this at the time although Cally didn't "probed" him at that time. > (makes any sense?) > > > Bye, > > > Jeroen Kwast > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 11:17:05 EST > From: Tigerm1019@aol.com > To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se > Subject: Re: [B7L] Cally's telepathic powers > Message-ID: <2f3f818.3666b981@aol.com> > Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit > > In a message dated 98-12-02 14:40:36 EST, Judith wrote: > > << She can sense very strong emotions like Vila's pain when his arm was > broken. > She sensed Avon's unease in 'Hostage', but could not read his mind to > deterimne > the exact cause. >> > > I got the impression that she had to know the person well to do that. In > Death-Watch, she didn't know whether she could contact Tarrant telepathically, > but she knew him well and that would help. I also think distance had an > effect as well. > > Tiger M > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Thu, 03 Dec 1998 14:40:50 PST > From: "Joanne MacQueen" > To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se > Subject: [B7L] Carnell - thanks > Message-ID: <19981203224051.24833.qmail@hotmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain > > Hello all. > > Harriet said: He's got eyelashes. > > Well, so do I and so do you, so these must be truly uncommon > eyelashes! Lisa Williams called them marvellous, just to clarify things. > Unfortunately, the only picture I've seen (that I can remember, and > thanks again to Kalazar for the URL) doesn't give you much of an idea. > Nor does it do justice to the hymn of praise sung by Pat P . > Think I'll stick with, as Tonya put it, the Dark God, instead of > preparing to swoon when, eventually, I see the episode. > > Regards > Joanne > > PS By the way, Pat P, I know very well what you meant by "an aqualine > face", but the more mischievous areas of my brain suggest that means his > skin is greeny-blue. Sorry Pat, but I couldn't help it > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 18:49:10 EST > From: ShilLance@aol.com > To: master@sol.co.uk, blakes7@lysator.liu.se > Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Voyager and B7 > Message-ID: > Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit > > In a message dated 11/30/98 5:43:02 PM Central Standard Time, master@sol.co.uk > writes: > > << > What do you mean "shagging Robert Beltran?" > > << "Having extramarital sex with">> > > Is there proof of this? > > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 00:18:02 -0000 > From: "Dangermouse" > To: , > Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Voyager and B7 > Message-Id: <199812040025.AAA18360@gnasher.sol.co.uk> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > > << > What do you mean "shagging Robert Beltran?" > > > > << "Having extramarital sex with">> > > > > Is there proof of this? > > Do you expect me to have taken pictures? > > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 21:33:33 -0500 > From: Harriet Monkhouse <101637.2064@compuserve.com> > To: "INTERNET:blakes7@lysator.liu.se" > Subject: [B7L] Re: Carnell > Message-ID: <199812032133_MC2-626C-976E@compuserve.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > Content-Disposition: inline > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > > Like I said. He's got eyelashes. > > Harriet > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 21:33:26 -0500 > From: Harriet Monkhouse <101637.2064@compuserve.com> > To: "INTERNET:blakes7@lysator.liu.se" > Subject: [B7L] Re: Languages > Message-ID: <199812032133_MC2-626C-976B@compuserve.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > Content-Disposition: inline > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > > Don wrote: > >I'm thinking of the islands that worship Prince Charles as a God etc. > > Oddly enough, I think it's Prince Philip they adore... It takes all sorts. > > Harriet > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Thu, 03 Dec 1998 21:26:20 -0600 > From: Lisa Williams > To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se > Subject: Re: [B7L] Carnell - thanks > Message-Id: <199812040321.VAA23328@mail.dallas.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Joanne MacQueen wrote: > > >Unfortunately, the only picture I've seen (that I can remember, and > >thanks again to Kalazar for the URL) doesn't give you much of an idea. > > Here are a few frame captures which might help a bit, though you really > need to see him in motion: > > > > - Lisa > _____________________________________________________________ > Lisa Williams: lcw@dallas.net or lwilliams@rsc.raytheon.com > > Lisa's Video Frame Capture Library: http://lcw.simplenet.com/ > New Riders of the Golden Age: http://www.warhorse.com/ > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Thu, 03 Dec 1998 09:51:34 -0800 > From: Pat Patera > To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se > Subject: Re: [B7L] Cally's telepathic powers > Message-ID: <3666CFA6.6CC8@geocities.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > Calle Dybedahl wrote: > > I've always had the impression that Cally was a strictly sending > > telepath, but yesterday while re-watching "Horizon" I realised that > > she is reading the kommisar's mind while on the interrogation device. > > > I think Cally was lying when she told Jenna, "I can't read minds, and > even if I could, I wouldn't." > She lies because she knows that no one will like her or tolerate her if > they know she can read minds. > > It just doesn't make sense to me that one could send and not receive. > Telepathic brain wiring simply wouldn't be built that way. And she can > receive from Zelda (or perhaps Zelda is sending?) > > Not that she deliberately eavesdrops. She is honorable in that she would > try not to listen, but sometimes one can't help overhearing. > > Or perhaps I am simply trying to assign more powers to Cally, a > character who had great potential that the writers left largely unused. > Pat P > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Thu, 03 Dec 1998 22:54:33 -0600 > From: Lisa Williams > To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se > Subject: Re: [B7L] Cally's telepathic powers > Message-Id: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Pat Patera wrote: > > >It just doesn't make sense to me that one could send and not receive. > >Telepathic brain wiring simply wouldn't be built that way. > > It's not that she can't receive; it's that humans can't transmit. Aurons > can, so she has two-way communication with Zelda. But humans evidently lack > the transmitter, so while they can receive her if she broadcasts, they > can't broadcast in return. And even among her own kind, she can evidently > only pick up specific thoughts if they are deliberately transmitted -- she > can't eavesdrop. (She shows indications of some vaguely defined empathic > ability, which does entail "reading" emotional states which aren't being > deliberately transmitted, but not actual thoughts.) > > - Lisa > _____________________________________________________________ > Lisa Williams: lcw@dallas.net or lwilliams@rsc.raytheon.com > > Lisa's Video Frame Capture Library: http://lcw.simplenet.com/ > New Riders of the Golden Age: http://www.warhorse.com/ > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 19:21:49 +0100 (BST) > From: Judith Proctor > To: Lysator List > Subject: Re: [B7L] Cally's telepathic powers > Message-ID: > Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII > > On Thu 03 Dec, Tigerm1019@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 98-12-02 14:40:36 EST, Judith wrote: > > > > > She can sense very strong emotions like Vila's pain when his arm was broken. > > > She sensed Avon's unease in 'Hostage', but could not read his mind to > > > deterimne the exact cause. > > > > I got the impression that she had to know the person well to do that. In > > Death-Watch, she didn't know whether she could contact Tarrant telepathically, > > but she knew him well and that would help. I also think distance had an > > effect as well. > > Exactly. She knew Avon well and could thus sense some emotion from him. > Sending required her to know the person well if they were a long way off. She > couldn't recieve thoughts even from someone she knew well. She only sent to > Tarrant in Deathwatch and in fact had no way of knowing if he'd heard her or > not. > > Judith > > -- > http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 > > Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention > 26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent > http://www.smof.com/redemption/ > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 19:24:05 +0100 (BST) > From: Judith Proctor > To: Lysator List > Subject: Re: [B7L] Cally's telepathic powers > Message-ID: > Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII > > On Thu 03 Dec, Jeroen J. Kwast wrote: > > > > > > Cally didn't read the Commisar's mind - she'd got the date from Orac after > > > asking it to look up records of executions and the like. She was however, > > > trying to make it *appear* that she could read minds as she realised it was > > > impressing Ro. > > > > > > She can sense very strong emotions like Vila's pain when his arm was broken. > > > She sensed Avon's unease in 'Hostage', but could not read his mind to deterimne > > > the exact cause. She could only suspect. > > > > > > Judith > > > -- > > > > > > Hello, > > > > Just a reminder, Cally did put a thought into Ro his mind about the > > possibility that the commissar might kill him (later on). It could also be possible th > > at he sensed this at the time although Cally didn't "probed" him at that time. > > (makes any sense?) > > She spoke to him telepathically and Ro heard her. (not quite the same as > putting a thought into his mind as Ro wouldn't have reacted in the same way). > cally didn't 'probe' Ro. That's outside her abilities. > > Judith > > -- > http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 > > Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention > 26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent > http://www.smof.com/redemption/ > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 09:19:19 +0100 (MET) > From: "Jeroen J. Kwast" > To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se (mailing list) > Cc: Judith@blakes-7.demon.co.uk > Subject: Re: [B7L] Cally's telepathic powers > Message-Id: <199812040819.JAA03458@pampus.gns.getronics.nl> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > > > Hello, > > > > > > Just a reminder, Cally did put a thought into Ro his mind about the > > > possibility that the commissar might kill him (later on). It could also be possible th > > > at he sensed this at the time although Cally didn't "probed" him at that time. > > > (makes any sense?) > > > > She spoke to him telepathically and Ro heard her. (not quite the same as > > putting a thought into his mind as Ro wouldn't have reacted in the same way). > > cally didn't 'probe' Ro. That's outside her abilities. > > > > Judith > > > > > Hi! > > I meant the same as you! put a thought -> spoke telepathically > and "probe" as is "doing nothing" or make it appear as if she could. > > The problem here is the language. I'm not as good in English as many of you > here on the list. I recall some time ago the discussion about "putting a > dot here and a comma there". Please ! I'm trying to keep up with all the > "extra" terms used here that I didn't learn at school :) > > Boohoo now no-one knows what I meant to say ... and responding to it. > Oh well, back to just reading the same people here. I wonder howmany > non-native English tongue people? here on the list have this problem too. > > > Jeroen > > Who is now looking at all 26 BBC tapes as of last week !!!!! yeeee |Thanx Diane > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 01:08:44 PST > From: "Penny Dreadful" > To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se > Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Voyager and B7 > Message-ID: <19981204090845.16083.qmail@hotmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain > > >> << > What do you mean "shagging Robert Beltran?" > >> > >> << "Having extramarital sex with">> > >> > >> Is there proof of this? > > > >Do you expect me to have taken pictures? > > > Bwahahaha, now THIS is *exactly* the sort of brilliant dialectic > interplay that makes me know 'twas not in vain I chose to devote my > existence to the Great God Internet. > > --Penny "Pissed as a newt, yet still, alarmingly, perfectly capable of > pressing 'Send'" Dreadful > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 07:37:49 EST > From: Mac4781@aol.com > To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se > Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Brian C's one man show > Message-ID: <7c312067.3667d79d@aol.com> > Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit > > Steve, thanks for the Brian report and the one on Peladon. > > Also, thanks to Judith for reporting on the "Over the Moon" adventure. It was > great to hear that Sheelagh is working on another interview tape. > > Carol Mc > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 08:38:12 EST > From: AChevron@aol.com > To: Blakes7@lysator.liu.se > Subject: Re: [B7L] Cally's telepathic powers > Message-ID: > Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit > > In a message dated 12/3/98 11:22:43 AM Eastern Standard Time, > Tigerm1019@aol.com writes: > > << I got the impression that she had to know the person well to do that. >> > > > Or, as you said, be at a short distance from her target. As in Time Squad. > And the subject's concentration level may play a part, as when she tries to > warn Avon but he doesn't "hear." > The telepathy bit with non-Aurons is one reason I think the Auronar are an > early break-away colony from Earth, rather than truly alien. the fact that > humans such as Vila seem to occasionally "transmit" telepathically seems to > indicate that whatever causes telepathy is present in humankind. Presumably a > genetic link. The Auron could simply be a group of colonists who were selected > for their telepathic potential, and managed to realize it in isolation. The > cloning process developed on Auron seems to have triggered the full potential > of the genes. Indeed, Servalan's reaction to the destruction of the embryos > both demonstrates that and the likelyhood that Servalan herself is a possible > latent telepath. Now there's a nasty thread to consider; what would being > actively telepathic have done to Servalan? D. Rose > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 16:07:21 -0000 > From: "Fifitrix" > To: > Subject: Re: [B7L] Orac and Marvin > Message-ID: <01be1fa0$2c559ff0$1b649384@fms01963.unichem.co.uk> > Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="iso-8859-1" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > Rob - you little star! > > >MARVIN: This morning, I had a conversation with a coffee machine that > >was more interesting than this one. And that was terrible as well. > > > >ORAC: If you are implying that my knowledge is inferior to that of a > >"coffee machine", I can only conclude that your understanding is flawed > >and your intelligence is second rate at best > > ROFL!!!!! I can just hear these two going at it. > Although whoever wrote this should have used the immortal > "Brain the size of a Planet" line. hee hee hee > Douglas Adams rocks. > > love > Fifitrix > > -------------------------------- > End of blakes7-d Digest V98 Issue #300 > ************************************** > Dita, President and Supreme Commander of the Terran Federation. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 09:19:22 GMT From: "Dita Stanistraken" To: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se, blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: blakes7-d Digest V98 #304 Message-Id: Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 03:02:25 +0100 (MET) > From: blakes7-d-request@lysator.liu.se > Subject: blakes7-d Digest V98 #304 > To: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se > Reply-to: blakes7@lysator.liu.se > ------------------------------ > > Content-Type: text/plain > > blakes7-d Digest Volume 98 : Issue 304 > > Today's Topics: > Re: [B7L] A New Character > Re: [B7L] Chain snowballs. > Re: [B7L] Chain snowballs. > [B7L] Good - Bad - I'm the one with the DSV. > [B7L] Re: ethics > [B7L] Re: ethics > [B7L] Gan and Avon > Re: [B7L] A New Character > [B7L] ADMIN: List downtime > Re: [B7L] A New Character > Re: [B7L] "Good and evil, there never is one without the other" > RE: [B7L] Re: ethics > Fw: [B7L] Chain snowballs. > [B7L] A New Character > [B7L] Oak Leaf > Re: [B7L] Gan and Avon > [B7L] Re:Servalan tape > Re: Fwd: [B7L] A New Character > [B7L] HORIZON - Zine Order Department > [B7L] The League of Gan appreciators - was Gan and Avon > Fwd: Tiresome Ethics (was Re: [B7L] A New Character) > Fwd: [B7L] A New Character > Fwd: [B7L] A New Character > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 08:24:35 +1100 > From: Kathryn Andersen > To: "Blake's 7 list" > Subject: Re: [B7L] A New Character > Message-ID: <19981209082435.08525@welkin.apana.org.au> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > On Tue, Dec 08, 1998 at 01:02:28AM -0500, LordRab@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 98-12-07 09:21:38 EST, you write: > > > > << Kerr Avon) : > > > > "I rarely comment on the Ethics of others" > > >> > > > > Nice line! Though the episode of Voyager you mention is one I actually > > almost liked. They may have chosen the "PC" solution, but I didn't get the > > feel that anyone was happy with the outcome. > > So what would the B7 folks have done? Avon, as you pointed, probably would > > have kept the data. What of the others? Deborah Rose >> > > > > > > I don't think that we can judge the morals and ethics of other people from > > other times by contemporary standards. > > Why not? They happen to be the only standards you have, the ones you > have now. It makes just as much sense to say that what is wrong in > one age is right in another as to say that what is wrong on a Tuesday > is right on a Monday. Surely a vegetarian who is one for moral > reasons, thinks that animals suffered just as much when eaten in the > 12th century as they do now, and therefore it is just as wrong to do, no > matter when in history you happen to be. If he had been transported > back in time to the 12th century, he wouldn't suddenly start eating > meat, would he? > > (Sorry, I've been reading G. K. Chesterson recently. (-8 ) > > > Rather than say what I think the B7 > > folks would have done I'll say what I would have had them do ( After all, they > > are fictional characters and at the mercy of writers, heh heh ). > > Not if the writer actually listens to the characters, as all good > writers do. In that case, the writer is at the mercy of the > characters. > > > In that > > future, people would have accepted that most of our medical data has usually > > been obtained from experimenting on live prisoners, albeit creatures slightly > > lower on the food chain than us, > > Well, getting back to the original question, as to how the characters > would react to questionable data... > Yes, Avon would have kept the data. And would have argued with Blake > about it. Blake would have wanted to destroy it, for his usual > sentimental reasons. Cally, perhaps, would have wanted to keep it, > for a different moral reason: to redeem the suffering that those > prisoners went through. That is, if the data were destroyed, then > they went through all that suffering for absolutely nothing. But if > the data could be used for good, to save other people, then that is a > small repayment for their pain, making good come out of evil. Or > maybe it would be Gan who comes up with that argument. Perhaps not: > he himself has suffered from Federation medical experiments himself, > that would probably give him a bias -- or it could give him an > insight, from the prisoner point of view. > > Well, gotta go! > > Kathryn Andersen > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > "Blake is sitting up in a tree. Travis is sitting up in another tree. > Unless they're planning to throw nuts at one another, I don't see > much of a fight developing before it gets light." > -- Kerr Avon (Blake's 7: Duel [A8]) > -- > _--_|\ | Kathryn Andersen > / \ | http://home.connexus.net.au/~kat > \_.--.*/ | #include "standard/disclaimer.h" > v | > ------------| Melbourne -> Victoria -> Australia -> Southern Hemisphere > Maranatha! | -> Earth -> Sol -> Milky Way Galaxy -> Universe > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 02:13:52 -0000 > From: "Dangermouse" > To: "Meredith Dixon" , > Subject: Re: [B7L] Chain snowballs. > Message-Id: <199812090220.CAA05746@gnasher.sol.co.uk> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > > I just saw Dangermouse's rejoinder to Calle -- that the Internet > > snowball he sent was "not a chain letter." It most certainly > > *is* a chain letter; I've seen those confounded snowballs all > > over the net, and I'm glad Calle spoke up in response. > > > > I didn't find the "Internet snowball fight" particularly funny > > the first time -- several weeks ago, by the way -- that I received > > a posting, and the joke definitely hasn't improved with age. > > Oh, so now I'm a spammer and chainer? > > Fine, I quit > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Tue, 08 Dec 1998 18:44:08 PST > From: "Rob Clother" > To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se > Subject: Re: [B7L] Chain snowballs. > Message-ID: <19981209024408.4530.qmail@hotmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain > > >> I didn't find the "Internet snowball fight" particularly funny > >> the first time -- several weeks ago, by the way -- that I received > >> a posting, and the joke definitely hasn't improved with age. > > > >Oh, so now I'm a spammer and chainer? > > > >Fine, I quit > > > Can't you just put it down to experience? It's no big deal getting > caught out by a chain letter: the originators started off with crude > scams like "send this letter on to buy a new heart for a little boy" -- > I've known a conference organiser get caught out by that one. She went > and forwarded it to all of her delegates, the silly moo. > > But anyway, after realising that scam wasn't working any more, they > tried saying "Don't read this email, otherwise your hard drive will > self-destruct, oh and forward this message to as many people as you > can." Now that people have got wise to that one, humour has been the > latest gimmick. In all cases, the aim has been the same -- > proliferation of a single message on a grand scale. To be honest, I > don't know why anyone would want to do this. Maybe the originators of > the chain letter are trying to establish some kind of spam database. > Whatever it is, they're up to no good, and shouldn't be encouraged. > > Calle had no choice but to say something: he'd have been neglecting his > duty as list administrator if he hadn't. > > -- Rob > > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Tue, 08 Dec 1998 19:05:04 PST > From: "Penny Dreadful" > To: Blakes7@lysator.liu.se > Subject: [B7L] Good - Bad - I'm the one with the DSV. > Message-ID: <19981209030505.21211.qmail@hotmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain > > Rob said: > > >And then the Federation itself was never portrayed as anything but > >evil. > > "'...I heard the Empire has a tyrannical and repressive government!' > 'What form of government is that?' said Ponder Stibbons. > 'A tautology,' said the Dean..." > > >Conversely, there were some characters who could genuinely have been > >cast as "good". Gan is the obvious choice; > > Genuinely good, and explicitly ineffectual/powerless. Coincidence? > > >another example might be, on > >account of their devotion to the "Rule of Life", the clonemasters. > > But they were working for the Evil Federation! And their response to > Travis' totally pointless murder or poor red-shirted Blake Clone 1 was > pretty cavalier. I wouldn't trust 'em. > > >There were examples of good and evil in B7 -- of that I'm sure. > > Definitely. I never said there weren't. Did I? Oh, yes, I did. Dang! But > no guarantee that Good would win. There are black and white pieces on a > chessboard, they're easy enough to tell apart if you're not blindfolded, > but that doesn't tell you anything about which side will win. Or which > pieces will survive. Only who to cheer for (Go, Evil, Go!). > > --Penny "I _am_ Spock" Dreadful > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Wed, 9 Dec 98 03:56:00 GMT > From: s.thompson8@genie.com > To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se > Subject: [B7L] Re: ethics > Message-Id: <199812090416.EAA22894@rock103.genie.net> > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Pat P. asked: > > >What did the Allies do with Nazi research > >on human endurance obtained during WWII? Was this also destroyed, or > >added to the body of Western knowledge? Was it the right decision? > > There was a case rather like this in the news about ten years or so ago, I > think, although I don't remember the details and can't seem to lay hands on > the info easily. It came out that some Japanese doctors who had been > engaged in very nasty germ warfare experiments on Chinese prisoners in > Manchuria had been pardoned by U.S. military authorities (or at least > released, with no charges brought against them) in return for handing over > their data. (And lest anyone succumb to nationalistic generalizations, it > was a Japanese reporter who broke the story.) The feeling at the time > seemed to be that if the data had been acquired accidentally, that would be > one thing, but bargaining with the perps for it was immoral. > > I kind of suspect that this incident may have been in the mind of whoever > wrote what Pat referred to. > > I do like the fact that moral choices in B7 are seldom cut and dried and can > often be argued either way, Blake's decision at Star One being the most > obvious example. I find it interesting that fans so often seem to want to > disambiguate these situations-- for instance, arguing that Blake was either > a saint or a monster, as the case may be-- when the ambiguity is the very > thing that I find interesting. > > Alison, your Whig vs. Tory analysis is very intriguing, and on the whole I > think I agree. I also agree that B7 doesn't really qualify as Tory SF. > Perhaps there isn't really a proper political metaphor for what it is, since > cynical wit does not get one very far in political situations and so is not > associated with any particular party. > > Sarah T. > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 22:45:37 -0600 (EST) > From: Tegan Brandi > To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se > Subject: [B7L] Re: ethics > Message-ID: > Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > > Pat P. asked: > > > >What did the Allies do with Nazi research > >on human endurance obtained during WWII? Was this also destroyed, or > >added to the body of Western knowledge? Was it the right decision? > > No, much of the Nazi medical research was not destroyed (I'm not sure if > any was). The one instance I can think of off hand is that we know how > long it takes a person to succumb to hypothermia and die. That piece of > information was most definitely added to Western knowledge. > > It disgusts me to know what the Nazi's went through to get that > information, throwing Jews into freezing water and just timing it. In my > gut, though, I cannot believe we should let those people die for nothing > and their suffering be completely forgotten. I think it's the right > decision to use the results of those... torture tests... for the benefit > of all beingkind. > > tegan (*) > tegan@goddess.coe.missouri.edu > http://goddess.coe.missouri.edu/~tegan > > So toss away stuff you don't need in the end > But keep what's important and know who's your friend > - Phish, Theme From the Bottom > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 23:38:47 EST > From: Tigerm1019@aol.com > To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se > Subject: [B7L] Gan and Avon > Message-ID: <38d8af81.366dfed7@aol.com> > Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit > > In a message dated 98-12-08 21:05:37 EST, Kathryn wrote: > > << Gan isn't stupid. So there. Just because Avon's a genious doesn't > make Gan stupid. > >> > > Gan may not have been the brightest of the crew or particularly intellectual, > but he had a solid common sense that I think the crew badly needed. I haven't > seen all the episodes, but from the transcripts it looks like his death was > when things really started to go downhill in the second season. > > I'm not so sure Avon was a genius either. I agree that he was very good in > his area of expertise but he also did some amazingly stupid things like > messing around with the Ultraworld. > > Tiger M > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 09:40:40 -0000 > From: "Alison Page" > To: > Subject: Re: [B7L] A New Character > Message-Id: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > > Hey, are you calling me a Trekkie? Grr! Lazeron-destructors at dawn! > > What I *meant* was that it's very difficult to have Good triumph over > > Evil on a weekly basis in a universe where there *is* no Good. Much > > like our own (in my humbly cynical opinion). > > > > I don't *need* Good to triumph over Evil in order to feel good drama > > has been perpetrated. But I know lots of people who do, and they watch > > Star Trek and the Money Keeps Rolling In. > > > > -- Penny "I am not Spock" Dreadful > > Oops, didn't really think you were a trekkie Penny. But point taken. I'm > the one who like ST:TNG. > > I am reminded of Oscar Wilde's comment > > 'What happened in the story?' > 'The good ended happily, and the bad unhappily; that's what fiction means'. > > At one level it is the silly comment of a silly woman with pretensions to > be a romantic novelist - Miss Prism, who speaks the line. At another level > it is a knowing joke for the cynical late-Victorian audience to the play. > But underneath I think it's a sad comment from someone (i.e. Wilde himself) > who's goodness was no defence against unhappiness. Is it a joke about the > conventions of fiction, or about the dirtiness of real life? > > Anyway B7 seems quite a lively reposte to Wilde's theory. > > 'The good end happily? Not in this fiction, mate.' > > Alison > > ------------------------------ > > Date: 09 Dec 1998 11:10:15 +0100 > From: Calle Dybedahl > To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se > Subject: [B7L] ADMIN: List downtime > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > > Sometime in the next 36 hours or so there's going to be work done on > the cooling system in Lysator's machine room. This will probably mean > that we have to shut off the mailserver, which will in turn mean that > the list is going to be rather silent for a time. Barring disasters, > we should be back online sometime Thursday night. > -- > Calle Dybedahl, qdtcall@esavionics.se, http://www.lysator.liu.se/~calle/ > "I came out of that meeting so full of enthusiasm that I spent the > next two hours updating my resume" -- Paul Tomblin > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 11:48:11 +0000 (GMT) > From: Una McCormack > To: Lysator > Subject: Re: [B7L] A New Character > Message-ID: > Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > > Alison said: > > >I've been thinking lately about what they call the 'Whig view of history' > >The rough idea is that Whigs see history as progress ('things can only > >get better') they believe in reason and meritocracy. The contrast is with > >'Tories' who see history as retreat, are pessimistic about reason, and > >believe in established power relations. > > Oddly enough, this is something I've been thinking about recently as well! It's > almost as if we talk to each other or something! Or are we just reading the same > books? > > Not sure, as a Tory, whether I see history as retreat and don't believe in > meritocracy, but we can take this one to the spin! ;) > > > > >Anyway, that aside, I think Star Trek is Whig SF. Enlightenment, > >redemption, science, progress. I'm not knocking it, just mentioning it. > > Ooh, definitely. But what's interesting about the Whig interpretation of > history, as well, is that it also acted as a justification for empire: > bringing reason and enlightenment to benighted parts of the globe. You > don't get this (really) in 'Star Trek' (though they seem worryingly > able to chuck the Prime Directive whenever it suits). Would the B7 > Federation use this idea as the rationale for its expansionism? > > > > >The glib thing to say would be that B7 is Tory SF. However I really don't > >think it is, because it is so negative about the weaknesses and smugness > >of established powers, and relatively positive about the idea of smashing > >them up. > > If not necessarily successfully! Also, Toryism (particularly as it > transmutes in the 19th century into Conservatism) puts a great deal of > primacy on the potential of individual human action: this brings out in > B7 the issue of individual resistance, but combines it with traditional > Tory cynicism about human nature. > > > Una > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 11:55:16 +0000 (GMT) > From: Una McCormack > To: Lysator > Subject: Re: [B7L] "Good and evil, there never is one without the other" > Message-ID: > Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > > Rob said: > > >I know B7 is supposed to be about shades of grey, but some characters > >are less grey than others. Servalan's character and motives were > >explored in some episodes, but one could make a case for saying she was > >just a greedy, evil gangster. And then the Federation itself was never > >portrayed as anything but evil. > > Although I like the strong suggestion given in 'Breakdown' from Julian > Glover's character (Kane?) that Blake and crew are wrong because they are > trying to destroy the main force for order in the galaxy. This is similar > to themes explored in 'Star One': whether the destruction of something bad > is a worse evil than letting it stand, but adds the extra dimension of > whether there are circumstances in which such a powerful force is a > necessity. > > I like the idea that Servalan is both committed to upholding the > Federation *and* is a greedy, evil gangster! I don't think the two are > mutually exclusive, tho' one could come up with situations in which they > were. > > > Una > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 16:06:30 +-100 > From: Jacqueline Thijsen > To: "blakes7@lysator.liu.se" > Subject: RE: [B7L] Re: ethics > Message-ID: <01BE238D.E31026C0@cmg71700449> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > > >Pat P. asked: > >> > >>What did the Allies do with Nazi research > >>on human endurance obtained during WWII? Was this also >destroyed, or > >>added to the body of Western knowledge? Was it the right decision? > > And Tegan Brandi answered: > > >No, much of the Nazi medical research was not destroyed (I'm not >sure if > >any was). The one instance I can think of off hand is that we know how > >long it takes a person to succumb to hypothermia and die. That piece >of > >information was most definitely added to Western knowledge. > > >It disgusts me to know what the Nazi's went through to get that > >information, throwing Jews into freezing water and just timing it. In my > >gut, though, I cannot believe we should let those people die for nothing > >and their suffering be completely forgotten. I think it's the right > >decision to use the results of those... torture tests... for the benefit > >of all beingkind. > > I don't quite see the moral dilemma here: on the one hand those nazi's (and those Japanese doctors) were downright evil and I hope as many of them as possible have been punished for what they've done> On the other hand, the information about hypothermia and suchlike is now there. Information is not good or evil. It just exists, and saying that it shouldn't be used because of the way it was obtaine> > > > Wow, did I just prove that the Voyager guys did something immoral? Must be a first! > > Jacqueline > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 15:34:23 -0000 > From: "Fifitrix" > To: > Subject: Fw: [B7L] Chain snowballs. > Message-ID: <001601be2389$66534ee0$1b649384@fms01963.unichem.co.uk> > Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="iso-8859-1" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > >I didn't find the "Internet snowball fight" particularly funny > >the first time -- several weeks ago, by the way -- that I received > >a posting, and the joke definitely hasn't improved with age. > > >Meredith Dixon > > > And I'll bet that you were more tolerant of it the first time you saw it. > > I for one thought it was amusing and I'm not particularily tolerant of chain > letters. I think that Calle is right to set the ground rules on this but > some of the other treatment of Dangermouse has been a bit harsh. > > DM - I hope you stay. > > Fifitrix > > ------------------------------ > > Date: 9 Dec 1998 09:39:52 -0800 > From: "Ma.James" > To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se > Subject: [B7L] A New Character > Message-ID: > > >Pat Patera wrote: > >I resent and dislike the Trek characters cuz they are so dang > >perfect and self-confident. > > But occasionally they do something right and manage to introduce an interesting > character. Ensign Ro Laren is one of them. She is a marvelous character and > would have been a stunning addition to either of the B7 crews. > > After reading a crossover story with Avon and Ro I went on a hunt for TNG eps > with this character so I could see what she was like. She turned out to be a > fascinating character. And I was delighted to see that the author of the story > was true to the character (as she was with Avon). Ro was a perfect match for > Avon I caught myself wishing she had been part of B7. > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 09:22:17 +0100 (BST) > From: Judith Proctor > To: Lysator List > Subject: [B7L] Oak Leaf > Message-ID: > Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII > > On Tue 08 Dec, Kathryn Andersen wrote: > > > Mind you, Gan isn't tiresome anyway. Unless you think Cally is > > tiresome too? She was rather fond of the moral stand herself. > > > > > I love the self-doubt these characters deal with. At times I can > > > empathize with all of them, for they personify basic human failings: > > > Blake wondering if he's throwing his life away on a pipe dream. Avon > > > knowing that nobody likes him cuz he's such a conceited egghead. Vila's > > > laziness and tendencies toward imbibing controlled substances. Cally's > > > loneliness. Jenna's jealousy and unrequited love. Gan's stupidity. > > > Tarrant's immaturity. Soolin's self-absorbtion. Dayna? hmmmm no, I don't > > > share her blood lust. Tho I wish I did, cuz it looks like such fun! :-) > > > > Gan isn't stupid. So there. Just because Avon's a genious doesn't > > make Gan stupid. > > > > (There, Judith, do I get my oak leaves now? ) > > You do indeed. > > Kathryn Andersen is hereby awarded the Oak Leaf of the Gan Defence League for > her defence of a frequently unappreciated, but no less deserving character. The > oak leaf (for those new to the list) is chosen to represent Gan's sterling and > solid qualities, his reliability, strength and upstanding nature. > > When I get to be a little old lady, Gan is the character I would rely on to help > me across the road. Gan isn't stupid. He's just average, and that's difficult > when you're surrounded by people like Avon and Jenna. > > Judith > > -- > http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 > > Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention > 26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent > http://www.smof.com/redemption/ > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 13:45:22 EST > From: Mac4781@aol.com > To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se > Subject: Re: [B7L] Gan and Avon > Message-ID: <23b29450.366ec542@aol.com> > Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit > > Tiger M wrote: > > > Gan may not have been the brightest of the crew or particularly > intellectual, > > but he had a solid common sense that I think the crew badly needed. > > I'd agree. He also had a degree of maturity that the others lacked. I'm so > glad to see Gan defenders speaking up on his behalf. He was competent and Dita, President and Supreme Commander of the Terran Federation. -------------------------------- End of blakes7-d Digest V99 Issue #9 ************************************