From: blakes7-d-request@lysator.liu.se Subject: blakes7-d Digest V99 #92 X-Loop: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se X-Mailing-List: archive/volume99/92 Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="----------------------------" To: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se Reply-To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se ------------------------------ Content-Type: text/plain blakes7-d Digest Volume 99 : Issue 92 Today's Topics: Re: [B7L] Redemption Re: [B7L] Brian Croucher and Redemption Re: [B7L] Brian Croucher and Redemption [B7L] Rachel Wilson Re: [B7L] Travis/Mutoids Re: [B7L] Travis/Mutoids [B7L] Cyteen (specially for VJC) Re: [B7L] Travis/Mutoids Re: [B7L] Travis/Mutoids [B7L] Re: Why Avon changed Re: [B7L] Brian Croucher and Redemption [B7L] On Matters PD RE: [B7L] Merchandise [B7L] Penguin parade Re: [B7L] Travis/Mutoids ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Mar 1999 22:38:33 -0000 From: "Dangermouse" To: "Judith Proctor" , "Lysator List" Cc: "Space City" Subject: Re: [B7L] Redemption Message-Id: <199903062252.WAA13975@gnasher.sol.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > The cabaret. Brilliant. What can I say? Helen Brunton's superb belly dance. Yes... I liked *that* bit a *lot*.... > Cartagia and Londo doing a routine together. And that And the rest. Apologies to all for missing the fiction writing workshop - I'm not sure how that happened (well, I think I was getting my hair up, and maybe filling in with the Stewarding) but I know it let Judith down. Sorry. Guess I'll have to do something for free again next time... -- "When two hunters go after the same prey they usually end up shooting each other in the back - and we don't want to shoot each other in the back, do we?" http://members.aol.com/vulcancafe ------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Mar 1999 22:33:04 -0000 From: "Dangermouse" To: "Penny Dreadful" , "Lysator List" Subject: Re: [B7L] Brian Croucher and Redemption Message-Id: <199903062252.WAA13972@gnasher.sol.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > [Penny waggles eyebrows again] What kind of costume *was* that, anyhow? Centauri. And, on Sunday, *with* the hair. -- "When two hunters go after the same prey they usually end up shooting each other in the back - and we don't want to shoot each other in the back, do we?" http://members.aol.com/vulcancafe ------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Mar 1999 23:59:59 EST From: VulcanXYZ@aol.com To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Brian Croucher and Redemption Message-ID: <643567cc.36e207cf@aol.com> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Penny asked: << > [Penny waggles eyebrows again] What kind of costume *was* that, anyhow? and Dangermouse replied: Centauri. And, on Sunday, *with* the hair. >> Well, okay, that's cool. But how about that Penny's other question? What did that "suggestive autograph" say? Gail ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Mar 1999 17:47:34 +0100 (BST) From: Judith Proctor To: Lysator List Subject: [B7L] Rachel Wilson Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Could Rachel Wilson please get in touch if she's on this list. (It's about her Jacqueline Pearce tape) Thanks, Judith -- http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention 26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent http://www.smof.com/redemption/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Mar 1999 20:32:26 +0200 From: "422ami" <422ami@nt52.parliament.bg> To: Subject: Re: [B7L] Travis/Mutoids Message-Id: <199903071830.TAA29630@samantha.lysator.liu.se> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I was very impressed by Michelle's message from March, 5th. It is undoubtedly for me that the simple phrase: "I know who you were. Your name was Kiera, Kiera... You were very beautiful, very much admired..." has a deep emotional background. (Actually, this became my sister's most memorable quote from all the series. And she is not a fan, even...). It seems to me, that, once upon a time, working in one and the same team, Travis and Kiera fell in love. Than she probably has taken on herself responsibility for some his fault (Travis is always capable for involving in troubles) and has been punished by modifying into mutoid. Actually, Travis' punishment is even much harder/bigger than Kiera's legal one, because he continue to live with his memories about their common past. In "Duel" we can see just the end/outcome of relationship, lasted long before the series had started. This relationship is even more dramatic/sorrowful than those between Avon and Anna, because, unlike Avon, who is convinced, that Anna is dead, Travis continues to keep/treasure a glamour of hope, that Kiera's feelings and memories could be restored. This was just a brief thoughts... sorry for weak English. The Bulgarian Hellen ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 Mar 1999 12:43:58 -0700 From: Helen Krummenacker To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Travis/Mutoids Message-ID: <36E2D6FF.176E@jps.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 422ami wrote: > > I was very impressed by Michelle's message from March, 5th. > > It is undoubtedly for me that the simple phrase: "I know who you were. Your > name was Kiera, Kiera... You were very beautiful, very much admired..." has > a deep emotional background. (Actually, this became my sister's most > memorable quote from all the series. And she is not a fan, even...). > > It seems to me, that, once upon a time, working in one and the same team, > Travis and Kiera fell in love. Than she probably has taken on herself > responsibility for some his fault (Travis is always capable for involving > in troubles) and has been punished by modifying into mutoid. (snip) > This relationship is even more dramatic/sorrowful than those between Avon > and Anna, because, unlike Avon, who is convinced, that Anna is dead, Travis > continues to keep/treasure a glamour of hope, that Kiera's feelings and > memories could be restored. > > This was just a brief thoughts... sorry for weak English. No, you expressed yourself beautifully. My own thoughts were that he had _hoped_ to have a relationship with her, some time ago. Someone who he knew somewhat and admired greatly... a bit, I suppose, like Lister and Kechansky (sp?) in Red Dwarf. Someone who seemed unattainable at the time. Now, he's moved up in the ranks and she's moved down. They were friendly, but he doesn't know how she felt, exactly, he's hoping to get to see if he can find any feelings she might have had... only to discover she doesn't even remember her name. Sad, no matter how you look at it. --Avona, or Helen, one 'l' ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 20:14:00 -0000 From: "Jonathan" To: "Blake's 7 List" Subject: [B7L] Cyteen (specially for VJC) Message-ID: <000101be69a0$36b70340$f386883e@ming> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Vick, Cyteen is an sf novel set in a moderately dark future - one about as violent, conflict ridden and risk filled as the C20th. Humanity has just splintered into two ideologically opposed groups under the impact of interstellar colonization and the impact of new technologies for cloning and (more ominously) programming human beings and societies. It won the Hugo and Nebula awards, and was probably much more derserving than most winners. It's part of a big very informally arranged series of books - they take place in the same future history, but there's no special order you're supposed to read them in. The main (Avon-ish) character is a brilliant, manipulative and politically powerful psychological programmer. She gets herself killed early on in the book, then comes back as a much more innocent clone. Like Avon she walks the line between villain and hero very nicely. The society she's a member of conditions many of it's inhabitants much more thoroughly than the Federation - and she's the chief programmer. But she's also worried about the welfare of these people and she's trying to save (she believes) the human race. The book is about power and what justifies it - competence ? necessity ? democratic approval ? Probably a very good book for Avon or Servalan fans, or for people who like to argue over whether Blake was justified in trying to destroy Star One, or who just hang out here because they can't believe in Next Generation's heavily armed innocents. A very paranoid book. Avon would have enjoyed it. Jonathan Coupe ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Mar 1999 13:22:14 -0700 (MST) From: Penny Dreadful To: B7 Subject: Re: [B7L] Travis/Mutoids Message-Id: <199903072022.NAA09825@pilsener.ucs.ualberta.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hellen the Bulgarian said: >> This relationship is even more dramatic/sorrowful than those between >>Avon and Anna... Yikes! You are a brave soul indeed to dare make such an assertion. Fortunately (or was it incredibly clever strategic foresight on your part?) the loyal defenders of Avon and Anna are all presumably on their deathbeds with the Creeping Conflu (reading these reports all I could think was 'Good thing it wasn't a "Survivors" convention')... One-Ell Helen (Hey, with a name like Avona, shouldn't you be loyally defending Avon?) added: >a bit, I suppose, like Lister and Kechansky (sp?) in Red Dwarf. I've always seen Travis as more of your Rimmer type. --Penny "Beavis and Butthead's Lovechild" Dreadful ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 06 Mar 1999 18:13:23 -0800 From: Pat Patera To: B7 Lysator Subject: Re: [B7L] Travis/Mutoids Message-ID: <36E1E0C3.6B48639D@geocities.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Nina wrote: re the mutoid "friend" in Duel: >He takes such pleasure in taunting her about knowing her > past that I wonder if he wasn't involved in some way in her winding up as a > mutoid. I like how disconcerted he is when she doesn't react to it. One of > Travis' more contemptible episodes, IMHO. > Contemptible. A word I've not heard applied to Travis before. Most apt. Your post set me to wondering why it is I regard Servalan with a sort of horrified admiring fascination - while I regard Travis I with anxious dread and Travis II with pity and loathing. Yet the 3 characters in behave in much the same fashion. Except that either Travis has far more courage in the face of equal or greater odds. Servalan is the true Bully of the bunch. Am I blinded by her fashion sense? Perhaps there *is* something to wearing designer gowns for daily duds. Pat P ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 06 Mar 1999 19:00:49 -0800 From: Pat Patera To: B7 Lysator Subject: [B7L] Re: Why Avon changed Message-ID: <36E1EBE1.7A273690@geocities.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cherri wrote: > > All the INTJ/Ps in the world: all in one place. > > Tramila/Cherri runs and HIDES!!!!!!!!!! Thank you, Tramilla, for the example. During the Myers-Briggs thread, someone remarked upon the posting differences of I's and E's. One would expect the Extraverts to blather on at length and the Introverts to toss a pithy remark and run. (Much like Blake does, delivering long, rabble-rousing litanies to all. Much as Avon does, flinging at Blake a few words that speak volumes, and then exiting to hide.) But no. Quite the opposite. And that is partly because INTs tend to explore one thing in great depth. Much as this list peers into the smallest cranny's of every esoteric topic: such as the recent Roche limit analysis. ESFs, on the other hand, are social butterflies, flitting about multiple fandoms and flinging chatty remarks at multiple fan lists and chat rooms. Therefore, there are few words available for any one list. (Reminds me of INT Avon, loyally chaste to the memory of one-and-only Anna. While EST Servalan (to quote the filk) "... had Catholic tastes, a Star Captain or two; Once a Space Admiral with most of his crew... There was Travis, Carnell, Jarvik who all - Succumbed to my charms; We had quite a ball.") So, I shall horde Cherri's nuts to nibble upon during the long dark absences during her orbit about the other lists. (Which may even include The Other List.) Pat P ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 06 Mar 1999 18:22:55 -0800 From: Pat Patera To: B7 Lysator Subject: Re: [B7L] Brian Croucher and Redemption Message-ID: <36E1E2FF.75FD8087@geocities.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Penny Dreadful wrote: > ew: Jenni -Alison wrote: > >Also, Penny, he wanted to know whether I still had black underwear on on > >Sunday... erm... how could he have known about the black underwear on Saturday? > > > >He did put a suggestive autograph on my 'zine when I got him to sign it.... > > Tsk, they all assume my interest in this matter to be prurient; what kind > of sick deviant freak do they take me for? ... And more importantly [Penny > waggles her eybrows in best Marxist > fashion], what does the autograph say? Yes! Inquiring minds want to know. ???????? Picture a new 5th season, with the B7 crew pursued by: Brian Croucher and Timothy Dalton as a Federation hit team. And equally dark Avon a prisoner in their clutches. Oh Penny, what a Dreadfully intriguing scene. > Yours until the Mountain Peeks to see the Salad Dressing, My, we are feeling prurient! Pat P ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Mar 1999 16:37:03 EST From: Sestina2@aol.com To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se, space-city@world.std.com Cc: Sestina2@aol.com Subject: [B7L] On Matters PD Message-ID: <4ffa70b3.36e2f17f@aol.com> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Hi All, A query to the members from both lists from a relative newbie. What are your various impressions of the Paul Darrow, not so much as an actor but as himself, in real life? I confess an extreme fascination for the character of Avon, which leads me to wonder what is it about Paul as the person interpreting Avon -- along with some good scriptwriting -- that yields such a complex characterization? Put more plainly, this is a question I would love to ask PD if ever I got to meet him: How much of Avon is PD and how much of PD is Avon? Can anyone share any impressions you have of Paul the man based on any experiences you may have had with him as a fan....meetings at cons, or hearing interviews, reading anything he's written, or just pure and honest speculation? I've just been getting into the B7 audio tapes: Have listened to Sheelagh Well's tape of Paul with Jaqui called "Elements." My impression of him is as a very articulate, very intelligent person who takes himself and his work as an actor quite seriously. I also see a fascination with some bits of American Culture -- John Wayne and Westerns (not to mention Elvis!) which I as an American don't find particularly interesting or complex intellectually. Still, I was struck by both his penchant as a pretty humorous storyteller and by the calm authority he seems to exude in the tapes themselves. I mean, he just starts speaking quietly amid several other people's conversations in that wonderful voice grown even richer with age, and people shut up in mid-sentence and give him the floor. (I especially noticed this in relation to Gareth Thomas, who seemed hardly on the "Elements" tape to get a word in edgewise at various points.) So much for my impression. Still, my question points to this: The subtlety in which PD captures the pain and alienation, the emotional withdrawing, the well-perfected mask of coldness belied of course by the most intense ability to feel, to love others unconditionally and to the point of utter self- sacrifice.....how did PD manage to project all that without projecting aspects of himself as well? What do you all think? And while we're at it, what's the scoop on his book "Avon: A Terrible Aspect"? Can anyone tell me in a nutshell what his theory of Avon's background is (I haven't been able to locate even a used copy of the book in the US) and why B7 fans seem, almost universally, I gather, to hate it? (Sorry if this rehashing an old debate/discussion on both lists.) Ses ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Mar 1999 22:50:26 +0100 From: Jacqueline Thijsen To: Lysator List Subject: RE: [B7L] Merchandise Message-ID: <39DCDDFD014ED21185C300104BB3F99F10FB5C@NL-ARN-MAIL01> Content-Type: text/plain Thank you, Judith for your help. I don't know if anything will come of it, but maybe sometime soon I'll have a little liberator hanging from my bedroom ceiling. For now, I have my sights set on a tribble. And Nelly, in case you continue having problems getting the newest B7 vids, the store that I got my B7 video's from is called "not of this earth". It's in Arnhem, but they have a mailorder catalog on http:\\www.notofthisearth.nl. I now have a standing order with them for two B7 video's each month until I catch up. I'm pretty sure they'd do the same for customers in Scheveningen. Jacqueline ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 Mar 1999 14:00:43 PST From: "Joanne MacQueen" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Penguin parade Message-ID: <19990307220043.28532.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-type: text/plain >"When two hunters go after the same prey they usually end up >shooting each other in the back - and we don't want to shoot each >other in the back, do we?" Dangermouse, have you run out of other authors to quote? Regards A reader of impracticalities ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Mar 1999 22:31:52 +0000 From: Julia Jones To: B7 Subject: Re: [B7L] Travis/Mutoids Message-ID: In message <199903072022.NAA09825@pilsener.ucs.ualberta.ca>, Penny Dreadful writes >Yikes! You are a brave soul indeed to dare make such an assertion. >Fortunately (or was it incredibly clever strategic foresight on your part?) the >loyal defenders of Avon and Anna are all presumably on their deathbeds with >the Creeping Conflu (reading these reports all I could think was 'Good thing it >wasn't a "Survivors" convention')... Bog off. Laughing at the enfeebled remains of con survivors, as they valiently struggle to their keyboards to share what little remains of their alcohol-soaked memories of last weekend (or in some cases, fatigue-poison soaked memories)... It's just not on, you know. Do you want to hear about the incarnation of Travis or don't you? (I thought he was delightful.) -- Julia Jones "Don't philosophise with me, you electronic moron!" The Turing test - as interpreted by Kerr Avon. -------------------------------- End of blakes7-d Digest V99 Issue #92 *************************************