From tariqas-approval Sat Oct 28 02:10:58 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA11663; Sat, 28 Oct 1995 12:11:15 -0400 Received: from lafn.org by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA11643; Sat, 28 Oct 1995 12:11:11 -0400 Received: by lafn.org id AA06232 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for tariqas@world.std.com); Sat, 28 Oct 1995 09:10:58 -0700 Date: Sat, 28 Oct 1995 09:10:58 -0700 Message-Id: <199510281610.AA06232@lafn.org> From: an525@lafn.org (Ivan Ickovits) To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: Re: the tradition of converting others Cc: 74637.1446@compuserve.com, an525@lafn.org, preinha@muse.sfusd.k12.ca.us Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: Greetings Habib Rose and thank you for your postings which are most enlightening and appropriate. I was just wondering why is it that you limit tribalism to Judaism only and do not attribute this to Islam -- which I believe also to have many similar social and religious attachments with it as judasim? (per the tribe of Ibrahim (blessings and peace upon him)). I do totally agree with you about the tribalism being an intrinsic part of judaism although I am not sure this observation is as universal as you think, but to me it appears that tribalism is just one of the earmarks of many of the worlds religious traditions. Could you develop your thoughts furthur? Thanks Raqib ibn Soapdish in Santa Monica > >Assalamu alaikum. > >On Wed, 25 Oct 1995 Jinavamsa@aol.com wrote: > >> >> hello there Asha, >> yes, it was to the issue you raise below that I was alluding, that is, your >> point about the missionary tendencies of Christians and Muslims, as >> particular to those traditions. >> Why the Jewish and Samarian and others from the so-called Judeo-Christian >> Background are different is unexplained, as well. (Why is it that the term >> "Judeo-Christian" is used as it is, is still another question. .... >> I sometimes get the impression that it is used as a replacement for >> "Christian", but in a context when criticizing Christianity per se would not >> be tolerated...) > >From the perspective of many Jews, there is no such thing as a >Judeo-Christian background. There is Judaism, and there is >Christianity. The assumption that the two are part of a continuing >stream is a Christian perspective. > >One reason that Jews for the most part don't try to convert others is >that Judaism is what some people might call a "tribal religion." I mean >no offense by this -- I simply mean that, for many Jews, Judaism is the >religion of the Jewish ethnic group. You are Jewish because you were >born Jewish. You can convert to Judaism if you really want to, but by >doing so, you are becoming a part of the Jewish people, and partaking in >their historical evolution. So, it doesn't make sense to try to convert >others, because accepting Judaism isn't something you can do without >changing your SOCIAL condition, not just your spiritual one. It is much >like the idea of marrying into another family. You may be accepted as a >member of that new family, but don't be surprised if your new relatives >come over for dinner! :-) > >Please forgive me if I've said anything stupid or innacurate. I am >trying as best I can to explain Judaism from what I perceive to be the >majority Jewish perspective. I was born Jewish, but do not now consider >myself religiously Jewish (except perhaps in a very dep sense). So, I'm >probably a lousy person to be writing this, and should just shut up :-) > >Yours, > >habib rose > > > -- q k From tariqas-approval Sun Oct 29 20:23:53 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA27560; Sat, 28 Oct 1995 18:24:03 -0400 Received: from vx23.cc.monash.edu.au by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA27499; Sat, 28 Oct 1995 18:23:58 -0400 Received: from vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au by vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au (PMDF V5.0-4 #8933) id <01HX0A5CH7CW9AQ9J1@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au> for tariqas@world.std.com; Sun, 29 Oct 1995 09:23:53 +1100 Date: Sun, 29 Oct 1995 09:23:53 +1100 From: D A Rice Subject: Rumi poem To: tariqas@world.std.com Message-Id: <01HX0A5CHA6Q9AQ9J1@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au> X-Vms-To: IN%"tariqas@world.std.com" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: O birds who have flown from your cages, Show your faces and tell where you are. Your boat has been shattered, wrecked on the shore. Seize this instant. Appear like a fish from the water. Either you broke your shell And reached Love, Or you missed the trap And are lost in hunting. Today you are either wood for your fire, Or the fire has been extinguished Because you became the Glory of God. This wind either became Too cold and froze you, Or blows like a morning wind In every garden where you arrive. You don't open your mouth for an answer, But there is an answer For every word in your Heart. It is salve to the eyes. (From "Magnificent One: Selected new verses from Divan-i Kebir" by Mevlana Jalaluddin Rumi, translated by Nevit Oguz Ergin (Larson Publications, 1993), p. 46.) From tariqas-approval Wed Oct 28 19:58:29 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA13407; Sun, 29 Oct 1995 03:54:10 -0500 Received: from inside.cruzio.com (cruzio.com) by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA13399; Sun, 29 Oct 1995 03:54:09 -0500 Received: from pine196.cruzio.com by inside.cruzio.com id aa20340; 29 Oct 95 1:53 PDT X-Sender: dances@mail.cruzio.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 29 Oct 1995 03:58:29 -0800 To: tariqas@world.std.com From: james hallam Subject: story I wrote about kindness Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: Safar was in a hurry one fine morning on his way to a very important job interview. He was starting to hyperventilate as he rushed to his meeting with his ...hopefully ...new employers. A cry rang out " Help me, please ...Oh God!...help me!" Safar thought to himself I'm late ,really late, but hurriedly remembered the Shakyh had said "Do your zekr faithfully and treat Gods creatures kindly: and all your difficulties will be resolved." So Safar stopped that day having heeded his Shakyhs words. After helping the unfortunate lady up and having talked to her he discovered with rapidly forming unsurprisedness ...achieving a new, slight but sure, step of faith...that she was the new employer he was AND did meet in such a timely way. Naturalment he got the job! But more important he got the job via the remembrance of Allah. just installed arabic so thats why right adjusted! wish I was as well adjusted:) I hope (inshall'ah) I'll be good member list Salaam From tariqas-approval Sun Oct 29 11:07:27 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA15257; Sun, 29 Oct 1995 04:07:40 -0500 Received: from venere.inet.it by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA15244; Sun, 29 Oct 1995 04:07:38 -0500 Received: from perseo.inet.it (perseo.inet.it [194.20.15.172]) by venere.inet.it (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id KAA204439 for ; Sun, 29 Oct 1995 10:07:27 +0100 Date: Sun, 29 Oct 1995 10:07:27 +0100 Message-Id: <199510290907.KAA204439@venere.inet.it> X-Sender: paterna@pop.inet.it X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: tariqas@world.std.com From: paterna@perseo.it (Domenico Paterna) Subject: Re: Scientific Investigation of Sufi Miracles Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: > >Could this be because such things do not exits? Have you yourself ever >seen this? I mean; been there up close, less than three feet away in good light >with no viewing obstructions such as clothing, able to touch and examine >the results? I, my wife and a group of about 20 people from Italy saw these things at the distance of few centimeters without any obstruction. We touched the iron in the body and saw the blood. Nobody of us was muslim, so we were all sceptic about these things, but certainly they happened. Of course this is not a scientific demonstration, but these things are not trivial tricks. >Please let us all know when and where the next demonstration is. I >am open to changing my position. :) This is a non-scientific position. To see something with your eyes and touch with your fingers don't demonstrate absolutly anything. As I said above I saw these things but I don't claim it as a scientific proof. I agree with Louay: only repeteable things under control conditions are of scientific value!!! Salam Domenico --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Domenico Paterna | Come, come whoever you are, paterna@perseo.it | An unbeliever, a fire-worshipper, come. via Antonio Lecchi, 20 | Our convent is not of desperation. 20143 Milan | Even if you have broken your vows a hundred times, Italy | Come, come again. tel. +39-2-58104410 | ===Mevlana Jalal al-Din Rumi=== --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From tariqas-approval Sun Oct 29 12:58:34 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA28903; Sun, 29 Oct 1995 05:58:44 -0500 Received: from venere.inet.it by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA28893; Sun, 29 Oct 1995 05:58:41 -0500 Received: from perseo.inet.it (perseo.inet.it [194.20.15.172]) by venere.inet.it (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id LAA75412 for ; Sun, 29 Oct 1995 11:58:34 +0100 Date: Sun, 29 Oct 1995 11:58:34 +0100 Message-Id: <199510291058.LAA75412@venere.inet.it> X-Sender: paterna@pop.inet.it X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: tariqas@world.std.com From: paterna@perseo.it (Domenico Paterna) Subject: Re: Horrible situation in the Southern Sudan Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: A >If anyone does find out any more information which can be confirmed, >please post it here or email me.... I would like to (at the very least) >post it on the soc.religion.islam newsgroup, otherwise I would feel >myself guilty (at least) of hypocrisy. I write from Italy, the "moral" capital of Christianity and so we have more regularly notices on the Sudan civil war between the north that is Muslims and the south that is Christian and, in small part, animistic. You can have some information in AFRICA-NET (you can subscribe it send a message to listserv@listserv.net with the message Subscribe Africa-net). I can only sadly confirm the notice on the atrocity of Muslims on the southern people. Religion in general is not, at least historically, a bearer of peace but a bearer of war, amd Islam is not an exception. What seems strange to me is that the leader of the sudanese islamic group is Hasan al-Turabi that I like very much as a essayst, so not only religion is not an antotode against war but knowledge isn't too. I read a good book on the religions and the war (Pierre Crepon: "Les religions at la guerre". I read the itsalian translation: I don't know if there is an English one), and the only religion that seems immune from war is buddhism. A last note: I'd noticed that, generally speaking, Americans knows very little of the rest of the world. Is it due to the distance between USA and Africa, Asia and Europe? Or I have a wrong impression?. Peace (!!!) upon you, all the members of tariqa-net and all the people of the world. Domenico --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Domenico Paterna | Come, come whoever you are, paterna@perseo.it | An unbeliever, a fire-worshipper, come. via Antonio Lecchi, 20 | Our convent is not of desperation. 20143 Milan | Even if you have broken your vows a hundred times, Italy | Come, come again. tel. +39-2-58104410 | ===Mevlana Jalal al-Din Rumi=== --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From tariqas-approval Sun Oct 29 03:24:30 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA22119; Sun, 29 Oct 1995 12:24:11 -0500 Received: from wolfe.net (mail1.wolfe.net) by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA22092; Sun, 29 Oct 1995 12:24:08 -0500 Received: from [204.157.98.152] (sea-ts2-p34.wolfenet.com [204.157.98.152]) by wolfe.net (8.7/8.7) with SMTP id JAA24061 for ; Sun, 29 Oct 1995 09:28:37 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: gws@gonzo.wolfe.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 29 Oct 1995 10:24:30 -0700 To: tariqas@world.std.com From: gws@wolfe.net (George Steffen) Subject: Re: Scientific Investigation of Sufi Miracles Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: >What is a good source of Sufi teaching on Nafs? > >Hal Assalam Alaikum I have studied Imam al-Ghazali.*One Disciplining the Soul* from the Islamic Texts Soc. in England, 1995. I cannot recommend it too highly. I have also studied Abdal Qadir As-Sufi, *The Way of Muhammed* and Sh. Muzaffer Ozak,*The Garden of Dervishes* and both opened my eyes immensely. The latter was my previous sheikh, r.a., and I heard him many times and still The Garden brought me back to the centrality of the Nafs. But the very best are the Hadith of the Prophet, saws. They are the fruit and the seed and the essence. If you can use these texts together with the Hadith, not only your questions, but your practice will expand and thus will your heart as well. Peace and Blessings, Habib N. From tariqas-approval Sun Oct 29 04:01:08 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA08033; Sun, 29 Oct 1995 13:00:48 -0500 Received: from wolfe.net (mail1.wolfe.net) by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA08011; Sun, 29 Oct 1995 13:00:46 -0500 Received: from [204.157.98.152] (sea-ts2-p34.wolfenet.com [204.157.98.152]) by wolfe.net (8.7/8.7) with SMTP id KAA25018 for ; Sun, 29 Oct 1995 10:05:15 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: gws@gonzo.wolfe.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 29 Oct 1995 11:01:08 -0700 To: tariqas@world.std.com From: gws@wolfe.net (George Steffen) Subject: Re: Horrible situation in the Southern Sudan Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: A Assalam Alaikum I believe that the basic facts which Habib Rose enumerated are correct. The situation has resulted in tens of thousands of deaths both among Christians and among Muslims as the former have since formed armed groups to protect themselves and (as usual in these cases) this has become retaliatory. It reminds of the extirpation of of the Hugenots in France. It appears that some Sudanese muslims have decided to ignore the teachings of the Qur'an and of our Prophet,saws to the effect that believers exist among the people of the Book and it is their own destiny. It seems equally easy to misinterpret the treatment of Jew in Medina. Allah protect us from our ignorance and our nafs. Peace and Blessings, Habib N. From tariqas-approval Sun Oct 29 14:44:18 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA20058; Sun, 29 Oct 1995 14:43:20 -0500 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA20046; Sun, 29 Oct 1995 14:43:19 -0500 Date: Sun, 29 Oct 1995 14:43:18 +0001 (EST) From: Steve H Rose Subject: Re: the tradition of converting others To: tariqas@world.std.com In-Reply-To: <199510281610.AA06232@lafn.org> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: Assalamu alaikum. And, since we're including Judaism in this, Shalom aleichem. We kill each other over the way we pronounce the words "may peace be with you" :-( On Sat, 28 Oct 1995, Ivan Ickovits wrote: > I was just wondering why is it that you limit tribalism to Judaism only > and do not attribute this to Islam -- which I believe also to have many > similar social and religious attachments with it as judasim? (per the > tribe of Ibrahim (blessings and peace upon him)). > > I do totally agree with you about the tribalism being an intrinsic part of > judaism although I am not sure this observation is as universal as you > think, but to me it appears that tribalism is just one of the > earmarks of many of the worlds religious traditions. Could you develop > your thoughts furthur? > As should be obvious, I am not an expert on world religions, I just have had a bit of experience with a number of them. So, please take everything I say with a grain of salt. I also want to make it clear that I do not believe that a tribal religion is necessarily worse than (or better than) a universal religion. They each serve a function, and may be right for different people at different times. Also, there are Universal aspects to all tribal religions, and Tribal (culture-specific) aspects to all universal religions, which you may be alluding to in reference to Islam. Finally, there is no clear dividing line between the two -- my distinction is purely for reasons of analysis. Soooo, here goes... IMHO, some religions are what I would consider to be "tribal" in nature. They are intended for members of a specific ethnic group. This does not mean that they have nothing to offer the world, have no universal principals etc., just that their "missionary" work is focused most strongly on members of the specific ethnic group. In most cases, these religions are strongly bound up with other aspects of that ethnic group's culture -- an inherent part of it. Examples are Judaism, American Indian religions, indigenous African religions -- and, in my opinion, Zoroastrianism and Hinduism to a large extent (in fact, Hinduism literally means something like the religion of India). Other religions are "universal" in nature. They are intended for and open to everybody, regardless of ethnic group. Examples are Christianity, Islam, the Ba'hai Faith, and Buddhism. Their "missionary" work is intended for everybody. The extent of missionary work, and the forms in which it is carried out varies widely among these religions -- Christianity and to a lesser extent Islam do a LOT of missionary work trying to persuade other people to join their religion, Buddhism does much less, and does it more subtly. But, IMHO, in all cases (even Ba'hai, who may deny it), these religions have throughout their history had active campaigns of trying to reach out to other people to "share" their religion (also known as proselytizing). In writing this, I am struck by the fact that all the universal religions I know of sprang from a base of a tribal religion, or a less universal religion. Perhaps this is part of the evolution of religions. (It is possible that this goes in cycles, as well, and that some religions may emerge out of universal religions which are more tribal in nature. The dynamic between the universal and the particular may be fundamental to our experience in this particular universe :-) As far as Islam being a tribal religion, from my perspective, any apparent tribal characteristics of Islam -- including many aspects of dress, cultural behavior etc. are in fact directly opposite the essence of Islam. They are attempts to hold onto tribal customs based on habit and unwillingness to change. From my limited understanding of Islam and the Prophet Muhammed (may peace be upon him), the message is very clear: Arabs aren't better than anyone else, official "Muslims" aren't better than anyone else, men aren't better than women, there are many paths to God, only God knows what is in our hearts, and God will be the ONE ultimate judge of EVERYBODY. Yours, habib rose From tariqas-approval Sun Oct 29 15:10:16 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA28604; Sun, 29 Oct 1995 15:09:18 -0500 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA28573; Sun, 29 Oct 1995 15:09:16 -0500 Date: Sun, 29 Oct 1995 15:09:16 +0001 (EST) From: Steve H Rose Subject: Re: Horrible situation in the Southern Sudan To: tariqas@world.std.com In-Reply-To: <199510291058.LAA75412@venere.inet.it> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: Assalamu alaikum. On Sun, 29 Oct 1995, Domenico Paterna wrote: [much of note deleted] > A last note: I'd noticed that, generally speaking, Americans knows very > little of the rest of the world. Is it due to the distance between USA and > Africa, Asia and Europe? Or I have a wrong impression?. > Thank you very much for your helpful note. Unfortunately, in my experience, Americans from the USA are extremely ignorant or everything outside their borders -- even Mexico and Canada! We tend to expect everybody to learn and adopt our ways and take comfort in the fact that we must be wonderful since "everybody in the world" seems to want to move to the US (nonsense, but with a bit of underlying truth). Furthermore, our media is far too preoccupied with trying to: 1. GET US TO BUY THINGS 2. Informing us about every last detail of the O.J. Simpson trial (sensationalism, to attract attention, to get advertising dollars, which will GET US TO BUY THINGS). To bother with such trivia as national elections in our neighboring countries, wars (unless ONE of the casualties is an American) etc. By the way, the very word "American" is an example of our self-centered ignorance. We have named ourselves after our CONTINENT. Yours, habib rose From tariqas-approval Sun Oct 29 15:22:52 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA03053; Sun, 29 Oct 1995 15:21:54 -0500 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA03037; Sun, 29 Oct 1995 15:21:52 -0500 Date: Sun, 29 Oct 1995 15:21:52 +0001 (EST) From: Steve H Rose Subject: Re: Horrible situation in the Southern Sudan To: tariqas@world.std.com In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: On Sun, 29 Oct 1995, George Steffen wrote: > > Assalam Alaikum > I believe that the basic facts which Habib Rose enumerated are correct. > The situation has resulted in tens of thousands of deaths both among > Christians and among Muslims as the former have since formed armed groups > to protect themselves and (as usual in these cases) this has become > retaliatory. It reminds of the extirpation of of the Hugenots in France. > It appears that some Sudanese muslims have decided to ignore the teachings > of the Qur'an and of our Prophet,saws to the effect that believers exist > among the people of the Book and it is their own destiny. It seems equally > easy to misinterpret the treatment of Jew in Medina. Allah protect us > from our ignorance and our nafs. Assalamu alaikum. I did not make a point of this in my previous mailing, since I don't want it to be available as an excuse. However, as is so often the case in the developing world, much of the problem is apparently a direct result of Western (in this case, British) Imperialism. When the British were in control of the Sudan, they followed their common divide-and-conquer (or divide-and-keep-in-control) technique and reinforced the divisions between the North and the South of Sudan. Making sure that Jews and Arabs (Isreal/Palestine), or Protestants and Catholics (Ireland), or Muslims and Hindus (India/Pakistan) hate each other was always a good way of keeping them from focusing on the colonial rulers. The US does similar kinds of things but at a safe distance, and often relies on economic divisions (Rich Arabs vs. Poor Arabs etc.) habib rose From tariqas-approval Sun Oct 29 11:45:48 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA07057; Sun, 29 Oct 1995 16:45:51 -0500 Received: from mail04.mail.aol.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA07043; Sun, 29 Oct 1995 16:45:49 -0500 Received: by mail04.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id QAA01657 for tariqas@world.std.com; Sun, 29 Oct 1995 16:45:48 -0500 Date: Sun, 29 Oct 1995 16:45:48 -0500 From: Jinavamsa@aol.com Message-Id: <951029164547_57588995@mail04.mail.aol.com> To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: Re: the tradition of converting others Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: to habib and all, as you say it, so may it be known; so may it be. in peace, paz, paix, pace, salaam, shalom, sholem, shanti, mir, ... for all persons, for all beings, Jinavamsa In a message dated 95-10-29 14:51:26 EST, you write: > From my limited understanding of Islam and the >Prophet Muhammed (may peace be upon him), the message is very clear: >Arabs aren't better than anyone else, official "Muslims" aren't better >than anyone else, men aren't better than women, there are many paths to >God, only God knows what is in our hearts, and God will be the ONE >ultimate judge of EVERYBODY. > >Yours, > >habib rose > > From tariqas-approval Sun Oct 29 01:36:20 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA20813; Sun, 29 Oct 1995 17:11:11 -0500 Received: from relay1.UU.NET by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA20799; Sun, 29 Oct 1995 17:11:09 -0500 Received: from espace.dcl.com by relay1.UU.NET with SMTP id QQznpg14950; Sun, 29 Oct 1995 17:11:19 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: Received: from forthd by espace.dcl.com (MX V3.1C) with UUCP; Sun, 29 Oct 1995 14:10:40 PST Received: by forthd.dcl.com (DECUS UUCP /2.0/2.0/2.0/); Sun, 29 Oct 95 14:54:52 PST Received: from fifthd by fifthd.uucp (UUPC/extended 1.12b) with UUCP; Sun, 29 Oct 1995 01:36:28 GMT From: Caravan To: tariqas@world.std.com, khadim@forthd.dcl.com Date: Sun, 29 Oct 1995 01:36:20 GMT+6 Subject: miracles Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.1 (R1a) Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: Peace be with you, Louay and Raqib and anybody else who might still be reading along this thread, and apologies for the delay in responding. It is true, the universe is ruled less by cause-and-effect than by the future pulling it in a certain direction. We are accustomed to thinking of time as originating in the past and proceeding toward the future because the past is all we know by our mundane means. We replicate the larger process microcosmically in our spiritual lives, by acknowledging the One seeks to draw us into Unicity, a process we assist by eliminating "otherness" (siwa) in our lives. Paradoxically, from our past-bound perspective, it looks as if the One is manifesting an ever more diverse array of Self-expressions, hence theories and philosophies have evolved in the past (as it were) such as Darwinism, evolution which creates an increasing variety of forms. This is what I meant by the role of time in the miraculous. It is actually an Attribute of Allah, a three-fold one at that, possessed of a cardinality of infinities: Eternal in the past, eternal in this moment, and Eternal in the future...and this theophany permits other phenomena to unfold. Westerners have demonized time, not knowing there is plenty more of it where it came from, and we have made of it an entity that terrorizes and defines our lives and saps our strength, a god of sorts. The teaching I am working with lately identifies our concept of time as the primary constraint upon our awareness of the All- Pervading Divine Presence instead of the ill-defined concept of ego. Louay, living in time as it is, Eternality, is a source of baraka for a master that makes the seemingly-phenomenal possible for murids of such a person. Agreement or disagreement, and proof vs disbelief, are low levels of a possible exploration of this subject. Other things can happen. In the early 1970s I was at a party with some physics and engineering students from Cornell University, and we had a typical sophomoric discussion about just this topic, miracles and proof and spirituality, and one of them said, if you're spiritual, let's see you walk through that wall! I responded that spirituality was about overcoming limitations of another sort, but one student theorized if I could adjust the polarities of my molecules from the polarity of the molecules of the wall, maybe I could walk through it, as we all know seemingly solid objects are mostly energy fields / empty space. To play along, I walked up to the wall, and shouted to the molecules in it, OK guys, RIGHT FACE! I'm coming through! Needless to say, I didn't make it through (just as well, we were a few flights up and it was an outside wall), and the room collapsed in laughter, except for three guys who jumped on a pad of paper with their pencils and began scribbling furiously, mumbling about polarities of carbon-based molecules and magnetic fields. That moment opened up something beyond normal conceptualization for them, and years later, many thousands of people have been spared the dangers of exploratory surgery thanks to CAT scans and other MRI devices that do indeed permit us to visually "walk through" the finest details of the human vehicle. What I mean is, the miraculous is not verified by proof, but by the use we make of the moments when the veil is lifted, and apply Proof to our inner and outer lives. People are still displacing water in tubs, apples are still falling on people under apple trees, tourists still pick up bits of coral from a beach, but because we look for proof, we are missing the miracle. Blessings on your sheikhs/pir, Louay and Raqib "And now my charms are overthrown, and what strength I have is my own, which is most faint, but in true, I must now be released by you...gentle breath of yours must fill my sails, or else my project fails, which was to please. Now I want spirits to enforce, art to enchant, and my ending is despair, unless I be relieved by prayer..." - Daniel -- Caravan khadim@forthd.dcl.com From tariqas-approval Sun Oct 29 10:16:16 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA23792; Sun, 29 Oct 1995 17:16:22 -0500 Received: from sgi19.phlab.missouri.edu by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA23761; Sun, 29 Oct 1995 17:16:20 -0500 Received: (from c640429@localhost) by sgi19.phlab.missouri.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) id QAA01352; Sun, 29 Oct 1995 16:16:16 -0600 Date: Sun, 29 Oct 1995 16:16:16 -0600 (CST) From: Jawad Qureshi X-Sender: c640429@sgi19.phlab.missouri.edu To: tariqas@world.std.com Cc: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: Re: Scientific Investigation of Sufi Miracles In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: On Sun, 29 Oct 1995, George Steffen wrote: > >What is a good source of Sufi teaching on Nafs? > > > >Hal > Assalamo alaikum wa rahmat Allah, There are many texts that are worth looking at, some of them were mentioned previously (like al-Ghazali's "On Disciplining the Soul") but there are many different opinions as regard to the Nafs. There are some that think that the Nafs is this evil thing that should be totally destroyed and then we are in a state of perfection (or rather human perfection). The opinion that I feel most comfortable with was expounded on by Allamah Iqbal, a famous Indian poet, who is called the Spiritual Father of Pakistan. He was a tremendous admirer of Mevlana Rumi, and was heavily influenced by the Mevlana's Mathnawi. He though was not a blind follower and had a mind of his own. His idea of the Nafs is that the Nafs is something not to be destroyed, but rather Perfected. It is a very interesting idea that, sadly, I have not had the time to study in depth at all. There is one book though that is in english that I would recommend that expounds that Allamahs thoughts on the Nafs and many of his other ideas; it is by Anne-Marie Schimmel and it is called "Gabriel's Wing." I have nt read the book in its entirety but as a whole, it gives the best study of many of the Allamahs ideas. The main reason why I brought his name up, was because he himself was associated with the Sufis (in his younger days being a Qadiri), and because his ideas are different than the average Sufis. With best wishes, Assalamo alaikum wa rahmat Allah, Jawad. From tariqas-approval Mon Oct 30 03:26:29 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA16667; Mon, 30 Oct 1995 10:31:15 -0500 Received: from mailhub.cc.columbia.edu by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA16500; Mon, 30 Oct 1995 10:31:09 -0500 Received: from [128.59.228.37] (phl508a012a.english.columbia.edu) by mailhub.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA29032 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 30 Oct 1995 10:30:57 -0500 Date: Mon, 30 Oct 1995 11:26:29 PST From: Zaineb Subject: Re: Horrible situation in the Southern Sudan To: tariqas@world.std.com X-Sender: zi1@mailhub.cc.columbia.edu In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: Assalamu alaykum wa rahmatullah. Just for the record I am horrified and appalled by what is being done in the name of Islam not only in Sudan, but in Algeria, and elsewhere. I have stated these views in other forums but haven't here. Now that the subject has come up I'd like to add my voice to others who denounce violence and who denounce those committing the violence whether in the name of religion or not. With best wishes to all, Zaineb From tariqas-approval Mon Oct 30 00:41:04 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA29734; Mon, 30 Oct 1995 11:41:08 -0500 Received: from homer25.u.washington.edu by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA29692; Mon, 30 Oct 1995 11:41:05 -0500 Received: by homer25.u.washington.edu (5.65+UW95.10/UW-NDC Revision: 2.33 ) id AA68333; Mon, 30 Oct 95 08:41:04 -0800 X-Sender: lilyan@homer25.u.washington.edu Date: Mon, 30 Oct 1995 08:41:04 -0800 (PST) From: Lilyan Ila To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: Re: Horrible situation in the Southern Sudan In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: asalaam-u-aleikum I feel exactly this way. I have been reading with horror and disgust of the atrocities in Sudan for years now. There are many, many examples of the worst behavior in the name of religions, including Islam, on micro and macro levels. Behavior of people in the name of religion is surely a crumbling foundation on which to base one's faith. Lily On Mon, 30 Oct 1995, Zaineb wrote: > Assalamu alaykum wa rahmatullah. > > Just for the record I am horrified and appalled by what is being done in > the name of Islam not only in Sudan, but in Algeria, and elsewhere. I > have stated these views in other forums but haven't here. Now that the > subject has come up I'd like to add my voice to others who denounce > violence and who denounce those committing the violence whether in the > name of religion or not. > > With best wishes to all, > > Zaineb > From tariqas-approval Mon Oct 30 06:58:08 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA14980; Mon, 30 Oct 1995 11:58:23 -0500 Received: from panther.ferrum.edu by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA14929; Mon, 30 Oct 1995 11:58:20 -0500 Received: (from nfs4362@localhost) by panther.ferrum.edu (8.6.12/8.6.9) id LAA01918; Mon, 30 Oct 1995 11:58:08 -0500 Date: Mon, 30 Oct 1995 11:58:08 -0500 (EST) From: Jim Bier To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: Re: Horrible situation in the Southern Sudan In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: As a member of the episcopal church in Southwest Virginia, I've been aware of these kinds of atrocities for several years. This diocese has a companion diocese relationship with the episcopal church in the Sudan. Conversion by force is not a Moslem invention, but it is being practiced in the Sudan. So-called Christians practiced this form of conversion especially against indigenous peoples and in Spain and during the 'crusades'. It is certainly not of or for God. My understanding is that the situation in the Sudan has recently worsened to the point that human rights groups are no longer trying to protest or protect, but mainly trying to resettle as many refugees as possible. ;-( On Sat, 28 Oct 1995, Fred Rice wrote: > > > On Sat, 28 Oct 1995, Steve H Rose wrote: > > [...] > > I had not heard anything about the situation in the Sudan, and I do not > > have time to do much research. But, this situation horrifies me. On a > > number of occasions, tariqas members have shared horror stories about > > atrocities committed around the world against Muslims. But, I have never > > heard in this forum similar stories when "Muslims" are the agreesors. > > > > I don't know if I am a Muslim or not. But, from my limited understanding > > of Islam, it would seem my responsibility to speak out against such > > atrocities, whether or not they were committed by my brothers. > > I also do not know much about the situation in Sudan, but from your > description it is clearly not Islamic, at least not to my understanding > of the word. If these atrocities are happening and Muslims are silent > about them while being vocal when they are the victims, then it is obvious > hypocrisy. (Thankyou, Habib, for speaking out about it.) > > If anyone does find out any more information which can be confirmed, > please post it here or email me.... I would like to (at the very least) > post it on the soc.religion.islam newsgroup, otherwise I would feel > myself guilty (at least) of hypocrisy. > > Wassalam, > > Fred Rice > > From tariqas-approval Mon Oct 30 05:51:17 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA28585; Mon, 30 Oct 1995 12:50:46 -0500 Received: from cwis.unomaha.edu by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA28506; Mon, 30 Oct 1995 12:50:43 -0500 Received: by cwis.unomaha.edu (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA05947; Mon, 30 Oct 1995 11:51:17 -0600 Message-Id: <9510301751.AA05947@cwis.unomaha.edu> Subject: Re: ***Any Sufi society in Michigan?*** To: tariqas@world.std.com Date: Mon, 30 Oct 1995 11:51:17 -0600 (CST) From: Richard Bennett Cc: rbennett@cwis.unomaha.edu In-Reply-To: from "Rashid Kysia" at Oct 23, 95 04:21:54 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1558 Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: 786 asalaam, dear rashid: i would like more info in the goings on in the detriot area around thanksgiving. as i understand, shaykh kabbani will inshallah be there around that time.( i believe in detroit correct me if i'm wrong) thanks for your time. wasalaam abdul ghani > > > Assalaamu alaikum, > > In response to your post, there is an active tariqat here in Ann Arbor. > We are Nashbandi. Currently, we are having dhikr and sohbet twice a > week. Also, nearby we have established a retreat center. If you wish to > connect with us, please feel free to call me (Rashid) at 994-7984. > Incidently, you may be in time for several special happenings. First, on > Nov. 18 (Saturday) at 8:00pm there will be a special program with > Morroccan music, IndoPaki poetry, Indonesian dance/marial art and a > dhikr sponsored by Haqqani Sufi Trust. Second, our shaykh, Shaykh Hisham > Kabbani may be in town around this time. He is representative of > Naqshbandi grandshaykh Maulana Shaykh Nazim Qubrisi in this hemisphere. > If you contact me anytime, I can give you more details. > Peace, > > Rashid Kysia > (313)994-7984 > kysia@umich.edu > > > On Mon, 23 Oct 1995, > Morteza Elmolhoda wrote: > > > Assalaamu Alaikum va rahmatullah > > > > I am going to travel to Ann Arbor (Michigan) on 19.11. (Insha'allah), > > to visit my advisor professor. I would like to know whether there is > > any sufi gathering or society in that area. All sort of information > > is appreciated. > > > > Blessings > > Morteza > > > > > From tariqas-approval Mon Oct 30 02:18:32 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA25279; Mon, 30 Oct 1995 13:18:37 -0500 Received: from desiree.teleport.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA25245; Mon, 30 Oct 1995 13:18:35 -0500 Received: from kelly.teleport.com (bergner@kelly.teleport.com [192.108.254.10]) by desiree.teleport.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id KAA12710 for ; Mon, 30 Oct 1995 10:18:34 -0800 From: Paul Bergner Message-Id: <199510301818.KAA12710@desiree.teleport.com> Subject: Re: Horrible situation in the Southern Sudan To: tariqas@world.std.com Date: Mon, 30 Oct 1995 10:18:32 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: from "Jim Bier" at Oct 30, 95 11:58:08 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24beta] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 348 Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: Asalaamu alaikum. Some background on Sudan: the social conditions there are terrible and deterioriating. IMHO this is not the first time that politicians (whatever their religion) have whipped up war in the name of religion in order to gain power or to cover their own tails and distract the population from its real problems. Peace Mustafa From tariqas-approval Mon Oct 30 00:35:56 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA06147; Mon, 30 Oct 1995 20:14:21 -0500 Received: from tymix.tymnet.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA06081; Mon, 30 Oct 1995 20:14:18 -0500 Received: by tymix.Tymnet.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA08946; Mon, 30 Oct 95 08:34:05 PST Received: from antares by tymix.Tymnet.COM (in.smtpd); 30 Oct 95 8:34:04 PST Received: from kirin.Tymnet.COM by antares.Tymnet.COM (8.6.5/UCB) id IAA07094; Mon, 30 Oct 1995 08:34:03 -0800 Received: by kirin.Tymnet.COM (5.x/SMI-SVR4) id AA01304; Mon, 30 Oct 1995 08:35:56 -0800 Date: Mon, 30 Oct 1995 08:35:56 -0800 From: mmoore@antares.Tymnet.COM (Michael J. Moore) Message-Id: <9510301635.AA01304@kirin.Tymnet.COM> To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: Muslim man marries Christian woman X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: Hello, A friend of mine described a problem that I was not previously aware of. She said that sometimes a Muslim man will marry a Christian woman with the understanding that they believe in the same god. But the problem starts when, after having been married for a while, the man changes this tune and desides that it is not the same god and that she is a non-believer. This friend of mine is looking for a news group or any sort of discussion group that is interested in addressing this issue. Does anybody here have suggestions? -Michael- From tariqas-approval Mon Oct 30 23:29:04 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA15892; Mon, 30 Oct 1995 23:29:04 -0500 Date: Mon, 30 Oct 1995 23:29:04 -0500 Message-Id: <199510310429.AA15892@world.std.com> To: tariqas-approval@world.std.com From: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Subject: BOUNCE tariqas@world.std.com: Admin request Status: RO X-Status: >From kysia@umich.edu Mon Oct 30 18:29:01 1995 Return-Path: Received: from stargate.rs.itd.umich.edu by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA15879; Mon, 30 Oct 1995 23:29:02 -0500 Received: from stargate.rs.itd.umich.edu by stargate.rs.itd.umich.edu (8.7.1/2.2) with SMTP id XAA26544; Mon, 30 Oct 1995 23:29:01 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 30 Oct 1995 23:29:01 -0500 (EST) From: Rashid Kysia X-Sender: kysia@stargate.rs.itd.umich.edu To: tariqas@world.std.com Cc: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: unsubscribe In-Reply-To: <9510301635.AA01304@kirin.Tymnet.COM> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Assalaam alaykum, Please remove my name from tariqat net for the time being. I currently have no time to sort through the bulk of messages. Wasalaam, Rashid Kysia kysia@umich.edu From tariqas-approval Tue Oct 31 13:38:06 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA26828; Tue, 31 Oct 1995 06:39:39 -0500 Received: from swss00.isbe.ch by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA26816; Tue, 31 Oct 1995 06:39:31 -0500 Received: by swss00.isbe.ch (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA24242; Tue, 31 Oct 1995 12:38:26 +0100 Received: from IBEN00/SMTP by iben00.isbe.ch (Mercury 1.11); Tue, 31 Oct 95 12:38:42 +0100 Received: from SMTP by IBEN00 (Mercury 1.11); Tue, 31 Oct 95 12:38:13 +0100 From: "Paul Ammann" Organization: Ingenieurschule Bern HTL To: tariqas@world.std.com Date: Tue, 31 Oct 1995 12:38:06 +0100 Subject: RCPT: "Islamic/Sufi Study in Cairo" Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail/Windows (v1.22) Message-Id: Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: Confirmation of reading: your message - Date: 27 Oct 95 7:13 To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: "Islamic/Sufi Study in Cairo" Was read at 12:38, 31 Oct 95. From tariqas-approval Tue Oct 31 06:01:13 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA21377; Tue, 31 Oct 1995 17:01:06 -0500 Received: from diamond.sierra.net by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA21351; Tue, 31 Oct 1995 17:01:04 -0500 Received: from LOCALNAME (tol-d235.sierra.net) by diamond.sierra.net with SMTP id AA00422 (5.67b8/IDA-1.5 for ); Tue, 31 Oct 1995 14:01:00 -0800 Message-Id: <199510312201.AA00422@diamond.sierra.net> X-Sender: frank@sierra.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.5 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 31 Oct 1995 14:01:13 -0800 To: tariqas@world.std.com From: frank@sierra.net (Tanzen Frank Gaude) Subject: Re: Rumi poem Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: Love, harmony and beauty, to all sentient beings! HOW LONG WILL YOU HIDE your beautiful festive smile teach your laughter to a flower manifest an eternity why do you think the door to the sky is closed on your face it allures and invites your magical touch to open and arrive an entire caravan is waiting in ecstasy for your coming and leading come on my friend use your talisman and harness all their souls today is the day to unite with your longing beloved wait no more for an unknown tomorrow a tambourine is in a corner begging your playing hands a flute is sitting dormant begging your happy lips RUMI, ghazal number 253, translated April 13, 1992, by Nader Khalili. RUMI, "Fountain of Fire: A Celebration of Life and Love", translated from the original Persian (Diwan-i Shams-i Tabrizi, the Furuzanfar's 10th Persian edition) by Nader Khalili. (Nader Khalili, internationally renowned architect, artist, author and teacher is the founder of California Institute of Earth Art and Architecture. He lives in Hesperia, California.) tanzen of tahoe From tariqas-approval Tue Oct 31 17:48:37 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA29083; Tue, 31 Oct 1995 22:48:39 -0500 Received: from mail04.mail.aol.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA29034; Tue, 31 Oct 1995 22:48:37 -0500 Received: by mail04.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id WAA26905 for tariqas@world.std.com; Tue, 31 Oct 1995 22:48:37 -0500 Date: Tue, 31 Oct 1995 22:48:37 -0500 From: Jinavamsa@aol.com Message-Id: <951031224836_9343902@mail04.mail.aol.com> To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: Re: Horrible situation in the Southern Sudan Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: Dear Habib and all, Re the following proposal [quoted below from an earlier post] I think this would be a fine way to use the technological advances of mankind: letting people know what is going on in the world in a way that is more direct and immediate than reports from government agencies long after the fact ... I for one have no idea whatsoever! Also, what *is* Hassan al-Turabi saying about what's going on in his country? And what might be the status of his National Islamic Movement in relation to whatever else is going on there? Thank you all for comments and information on these issues. It is amazing, astounding, stunning, yet not surprizing that such news of events going on for perhaps a decade is so little reported in the world press .... may all being be happy and caring for all beings, Jinavamsa In a message dated 95-10-31 19:36:39 EST, you write: > the subject. Insh'Allah, if you >are really interested in such information, I can ask my friends to write >you either as part of the list, or via private email. > >Yours, > >habib rose > > From tariqas-approval Tue Oct 31 14:22:52 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA22850; Wed, 1 Nov 1995 01:22:56 -0500 Received: from homer20.u.washington.edu by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA22835; Wed, 1 Nov 1995 01:22:54 -0500 Received: by homer20.u.washington.edu (5.65+UW95.10/UW-NDC Revision: 2.33 ) id AA14491; Tue, 31 Oct 95 22:22:53 -0800 X-Sender: lilyan@homer20.u.washington.edu Date: Tue, 31 Oct 1995 22:22:52 -0800 (PST) From: Lilyan Ila To: tariqas@world.std.com Cc: wh@seas.upenn.edu Subject: Re: appeal for support In-Reply-To: <9510311943.AA20346@envirolink.org> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: On Tue, 31 Oct 1995, marshall hall wrote: > Today was lousy day. In fact it was the worst day I can remember in a long > time. Part of my responsibility today as a social worker in a juvenile > detention center was to try and support an 18 yr old kid I have been working > with since February who just got an 18 yr. sentence. > > > The tragedy in this case is that while this kid was here I wittnessed a > genuine spiritual blossoming. asalaam-u-aleikum I thought I had a lousy day because I received the news I am to be laid off in January. But on second thought, I will be eligible for unemployment and will get back to living simpler and spending more time with my children. Looking at Nooradin's situation from a different angle, he was going to be given this spirit crushing sentence, regardless. Allah swt has apparently through you enabled him to shine as Nooradin, perhaps to cope with this experience. Otherwise he may have lost himself. Lest you burn out, you must see how it is that you have carried out your responsibility and will continue to do so. You did not do the crime and you did not give the unfair sentence. You will continue to help him get through this thing, which would have happened whether you were there or not. Your post implies that you feel that you have somehow failed this boy, because this has happened to him. I know this feeling too well, that whenever something bad happens to our child, or our patient, or our client, that we have somehow caused it. We are not that important! The other side of this coin is, whatever bad happens to me is ______'s fault. Neither are they! If we maintain this distorted viewpoint, we cannot continue this type of work, it is too exhausting. The only way is to surrender the responsibility to He who Sees all, to give up one's desire to control events, to yearn for the ecstacy of serving as His vessel. with love and prayers Lily From tariqas-approval Wed Nov 1 00:43:20 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA28369; Wed, 1 Nov 1995 11:43:10 -0500 Received: from diamond.sierra.net by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA28289; Wed, 1 Nov 1995 11:43:04 -0500 Received: from LOCALNAME (tol-d225.sierra.net) by diamond.sierra.net with SMTP id AA01927 (5.67b8/IDA-1.5 for ); Wed, 1 Nov 1995 08:42:59 -0800 Message-Id: <199511011642.AA01927@diamond.sierra.net> X-Sender: frank@sierra.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.5 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 01 Nov 1995 08:43:20 -0800 To: tariqas@world.std.com From: frank@sierra.net (Tanzen Frank Gaude) Subject: Re: appeal for support Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: Love, harmony and beauty to all sentient beings! >The only way is to >surrender the responsibility to He who Sees all, to give up one's desire >to control events, to yearn for the ecstacy of serving as His vessel. > >with love and prayers > >Lily Yes, yes, Lilyan.... God, you are beautiful... as we merge into the depths of peace beyond human understanding... to yearn... to experience... and to trust the splendor behind appearances... such is Islam! such is Sufism! Peace, sister, brother, tanzen of tahoe From tariqas-approval Wed Nov 1 09:38:47 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA27026; Wed, 1 Nov 1995 19:18:32 -0500 Received: from virginia.edu (uvaarpa.Virginia.EDU) by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA26784; Wed, 1 Nov 1995 19:18:11 -0500 Received: from poe.acc.virginia.edu by uvaarpa.virginia.edu id aa23303; 1 Nov 95 14:39 EST Received: from [128.143.3.225] (ara-mac-225.itc.Virginia.EDU [128.143.3.225]) by poe.acc.Virginia.EDU (8.7.1/8.6.6) with SMTP id OAA122522 for ; Wed, 1 Nov 1995 14:39:50 -0500 Message-Id: <199511011939.OAA122522@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU> X-Sender: nd4n@poe.acc.virginia.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 14:38:47 -0500 To: tariqas@world.std.com From: "A.N. Durkee" Subject: horrible situations Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: as-salaamu 'alaykum, The world is neither Paradise nor, no matter how much it may seem at times, it is the true Fire. The experience of the world is for each soul a unique personal examination based on Q7:172. Read it and quake. peace to all wa salaam A. N. Durkee Green Mountain From tariqas-approval Wed Nov 1 15:33:24 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA22312; Wed, 1 Nov 1995 20:33:27 -0500 Received: from mail04.mail.aol.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA22278; Wed, 1 Nov 1995 20:33:25 -0500 Received: by mail04.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id UAA14841 for tariqas@world.std.com; Wed, 1 Nov 1995 20:33:24 -0500 Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 20:33:24 -0500 From: Jinavamsa@aol.com Message-Id: <951101203323_10218957@mail04.mail.aol.com> To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: Re Q7:172 Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: I've read the text you suggest below. It didn't get me quaking: should it have? Or shouldn't I (one) have tried to apply your post to myself (oneself)? I'm confused. What sort of quaking did you have in mind? OAL (on another level), I'd be interested in your sense of the connection between the line Read it and quake and your following line peace to all wa salaam thank you. Jinavamsa In a message dated 95-11-01 19:27:13 EST, you write: > >The world is neither Paradise nor, no matter how much it may seem at times, >it is the true Fire. > >The experience of the world is for each soul a unique personal examination >based on Q7:172. > >Read it and quake. > >peace to all wa salaam > >A. N. Durkee >Green Mountain > > From tariqas-approval Wed Nov 1 00:36:16 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA18073; Wed, 1 Nov 1995 22:22:22 -0500 Received: from relay1.UU.NET by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA18017; Wed, 1 Nov 1995 22:22:17 -0500 Received: from espace.dcl.com by relay1.UU.NET with SMTP id QQzobd04092; Wed, 1 Nov 1995 22:22:27 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: Received: from forthd by espace.dcl.com (MX V3.1C) with UUCP; Wed, 01 Nov 1995 19:21:43 PST Received: by forthd.dcl.com (DECUS UUCP /2.0/2.0/2.0/); Wed, 1 Nov 95 20:26:19 PST Received: from fifthd by fifthd.uucp (UUPC/extended 1.12b) with UUCP; Wed, 01 Nov 1995 00:36:23 GMT From: Caravan To: tariqas@world.std.com, wh@seas.upenn.edu Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 00:36:16 GMT+6 Subject: Les Hixon Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.1 (R1a) Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: Peace be with you Lex Hixon, also known as Sh Nur al-Khalwati al-Jerrahi, passed into the arms of his Beloved today after a bout with inoperable colon cancer. Prayers and blessings, tears and laughter - Daniel Muzaffer Donnell -- Caravan khadim@forthd.dcl.com From tariqas-approval Thu Nov 2 06:31:30 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA11774; Thu, 2 Nov 1995 11:32:41 -0500 Received: from virginia.edu (uvaarpa.Virginia.EDU) by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA11743; Thu, 2 Nov 1995 11:32:39 -0500 Received: from poe.acc.virginia.edu by uvaarpa.virginia.edu id ab27849; 2 Nov 95 11:32 EST Received: from [128.143.3.208] (ara-mac-208.itc.Virginia.EDU [128.143.3.208]) by poe.acc.Virginia.EDU (8.7.1/8.6.6) with SMTP id LAA147882 for ; Thu, 2 Nov 1995 11:32:32 -0500 Message-Id: <199511021632.LAA147882@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU> X-Sender: nd4n@poe.acc.virginia.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 2 Nov 1995 11:31:30 -0500 To: tariqas@world.std.com From: "A.N. Durkee" Subject: quake, shake, awake Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: as-salaamu 'alaykum Jinavamsa quake, shake or awake --- as you like. For the connection to >salaam< see the tafsir of Sahl at-Tustari. If you don't read Arabic then you can find a good translation in "The Mystical Vision of Existence in Classical Islam" or the "The Qur'anic Hermeneutics of the Sufi Sahl at-Tustari (d. 283/8960 published in Berlin and New York in 1980 by Walter de Gruyter and translated by Dr. G. Bowering. See the Primordial Evenents and the Day of the Covenant as well Theophanic Events and the Day of Resurection. I guarantee,' inshallah, you will find it enlightening. wa salaam A. N. Durkee Green Mountain From tariqas-approval Thu Nov 2 02:32:17 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA24818; Thu, 2 Nov 1995 14:03:20 -0500 Received: from halon.sybase.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA24778; Thu, 2 Nov 1995 14:03:14 -0500 Received: from sybase.sybase.com by halon.sybase.com (5.x/SMI-SVR4/SybFW4.0) id AA05483; Thu, 2 Nov 1995 11:02:51 -0800 Received: from serii.sybase.com ([158.159.40.63]) by sybase.sybase.com (4.1/SMI-4.1/SybH3.4) id AA17866; Thu, 2 Nov 95 11:03:13 PST Received: by serii.sybase.com (5.x/SMI-4.1/SybEC3.2) id AA01133; Thu, 2 Nov 1995 10:32:17 -0800 Date: Thu, 2 Nov 1995 10:32:17 -0800 From: mateens@sybase.com (Mateen Siddiqui) Message-Id: <9511021832.AA01133@serii.sybase.com> To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: condolences on passing of Shaykh Muhammad Nur (Lex Hixon) Cc: mateens@sybase.com, f_haddad@unix.asb.com X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: Bismillah ir-Rahman ir-Raheem, In the name of God, The Compassionate, the Merciful "inna lillahi wa inna ilayhi raaji'un" "to Him do we belong and certainly to Him is our return." Quran as-salaam 'alaykum wa rahmatullah, May the peace and mercy of God be upon all of you. Our condolences to all members of Halveti-Jerrahi Order on the passing of our beloved Shaykh Muhammad Nur. May Allah grant him the highest stations in the company of the prophets, the martyrs, the Truthful Ones and the Purified Ones. We pray that the angels of light and mercy illumine and expand his grave and fill it with the fragrance of musk and we implore God the Glorious and Exalted to send special blessings from His Divine Light to the soul of our friend and brother, Shaykh Muhammad Nur Lex Hixon. We especially extend condolences to Shaykh Muhammad Nur's wife Azize and to his family. Today is a sad one for myself as a friend of Shaykh Muhammad Nur, for my shaykh, Mawlana Shaykh Muhammad Nazim al-Haqqani, who considered Shaykh Muhammad Nur like one of his own sons, and it is a sad one for all our brothers and sisters of tariqah who knew him so well for his devoted service to God, to the Prophet (peace be upon him), to Islam and to the Path, Tariqah. His efforts to serve his shaykh, Shaykh Muzzafer Efendi, and to continue with the work he initiated, the work of love and lovers, will remain a living legacy and testament to his goodness. The many hearts which today are wounded and in shock from his passing, are a living testimony of Shaykh Muhammad Nur's love and compassion for all human beings. I ask everyone who reads this to offer the Opening Chapter prayer for him, al-Fatiha. On behalf of Shaykh Muhammad Nazim al-Haqqani Shaykh Muhammad Hisham Kabbani Naqshbandi-Haqqani Sufi Foundation From tariqas-approval Thu Nov 2 09:08:04 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA14437; Thu, 2 Nov 1995 20:08:14 -0500 Received: from homer20.u.washington.edu by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA14367; Thu, 2 Nov 1995 20:08:06 -0500 Received: by homer20.u.washington.edu (5.65+UW95.10/UW-NDC Revision: 2.33 ) id AA27703; Thu, 2 Nov 95 17:08:05 -0800 X-Sender: lilyan@homer20.u.washington.edu Date: Thu, 2 Nov 1995 17:08:04 -0800 (PST) From: Lilyan Ila To: tariqasnet Subject: Re: Meditation on Wittgenstein Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: salaam/shalom Thomas I think you may enjoy reading "The Spinoza of Market Street" in I.B. Singer's Collected Stories. It doesn't really answer your question, but reminds me of it. best regards Lily PS What is "metta"? >Hi all, >I'd like to share three paragraphs from Ludwig Wittgenstein's >Philosophical Investigations (his late work), as I find his work more and more inspireing for the field of Transpersonal Psychology. I did the translation myself from German so if you are in doubt of it, you would have to check with the authorized English publishing of his work. Here it goes: Ludwig Wittgenstein, Philosophical Investigations 627. Look at this description of arbitrary act: "I decide to ring a bell at 5 o'clock, and when it is 5 o'clock, my arm does this movement." - Is this the correct description, and not the following: "...and when it is 5 o'clock I lift my arm."? The first describtion one would like to complete "...and look! My arm lifts when it is 5 o'clock." And it is this *look* that escapes here. I do NOT say "look! My arm lifts!" when I lift it. 628. So we could say: The arbitrary movement is characerized by the absence of astonishment. And now I don't want, that one asks "But why don't we astonish here?" 629. When people talk about the possibility of precognition of the future, they always forget the fact of precognition of arbitrary movements. - End of quotation - What do you think, why he doesn't want us to ask the question in 628? I have several answers myself, but I would like to listen to you first. With metta Thomas thtepfer@cube.net From tariqas-approval Thu Nov 2 09:17:51 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA20133; Thu, 2 Nov 1995 20:17:32 -0500 Received: from diamond.sierra.net by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA20116; Thu, 2 Nov 1995 20:17:29 -0500 Received: from LOCALNAME (tol-d229.sierra.net) by diamond.sierra.net with SMTP id AA08616 (5.67b8/IDA-1.5 for ); Thu, 2 Nov 1995 15:43:55 -0800 Message-Id: <199511022343.AA08616@diamond.sierra.net> X-Sender: frank@sierra.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.5 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 02 Nov 1995 17:17:51 -0800 To: tariqas@world.std.com From: frank@sierra.net (Tanzen Frank Gaude) Subject: Re: horrible situations Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: as-salaamu 'alaykum, You might like this series from the Christian Old Testament if you are into quaking: Jeremiah 31:31-34 Behold... I will make a new covenant... I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God... And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them... and I will remember their sin no more. (Also see Ezekiel 36:26-28.) >The world is neither Paradise nor, no matter how much it may seem at times, >it is the true Fire. Could you recast this sentence so it makes the sense you have in mind? >The experience of the world is for each soul a unique personal examination >based on Q7:172. > >Read it and quake. Is this English translation reasonable for Q7:172: When your Lord brings forth from their loins the offspring of the children of Adam, He makes them witnesses over themselves, (and asks): "Am I not your Lord?" 'Indeed', they reply. 'We bear witness,' -- lest you should say on the Day of Resurrection: "We were not aware of this;" >A. N. Durkee The idea that God is within each of us is clear in Jeremiah, and the idea that we witness ourselves seems clear in Q7:172... God is in us all if we but still ourselves and love our neighbors as we love our nafs... God is both immanent and transcendent... thus the reason sufis are pantheists. There is nothing but God! There is no God but God! La illaha -- el il Al lah! or La ila ha -- illa 'llah! or La el la ha -- el Al lah hu! What point were you trying to make? tanzen of tahoe From tariqas-approval Thu Nov 2 20:45:54 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA07920; Fri, 3 Nov 1995 01:45:57 -0500 Received: from emout06.mail.aol.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA07900; Fri, 3 Nov 1995 01:45:55 -0500 Received: by emout06.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id BAA25356 for tariqas@world.std.com; Fri, 3 Nov 1995 01:45:54 -0500 Date: Fri, 3 Nov 1995 01:45:54 -0500 From: Jinavamsa@aol.com Message-Id: <951103014548_11466793@emout06.mail.aol.com> To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: Re: Metta, Wittgenstein, & Spinoza Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: Thomas, yes this is an interesting idea. I don't know why, and it's late in my day, so my mind is on autopilot right now and my fingers not typing the best they can at other times of the tday, but... I agree with the suggestion below. Let me know what you think (was du meinsst [?] meinst [?] ). re question of what is "metta": it's a word in Pali (a Middle Indic language, related to Vedic and Sanskrit) for friendship, meaning general non-egoic good will, Jinavamsa In a message dated 95-11-02 20:19:28 EST, you write: > >salaam/shalom Thomas > >I think you may enjoy reading "The Spinoza of Market Street" in I.B. >Singer's Collected Stories. It doesn't really answer your question, but >reminds me of it. > >best regards > >Lily > >PS What is "metta"? > > From tariqas-approval Thu Nov 2 16:51:00 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA01758; Fri, 3 Nov 1995 03:51:59 -0500 Received: from island.amtsgi.bc.ca (Island.islandnet.com) by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA01740; Fri, 3 Nov 1995 03:51:57 -0500 Received: from Texada.islandnet.com by island.amtsgi.bc.ca with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0tBHqr-0005WVC; Fri, 3 Nov 95 00:51 PST Message-Id: Date: Fri, 3 Nov 95 00:51 PST X-Sender: dynamics@islandnet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: tariqas@world.std.com From: dynamics@islandnet.com (Jabreil Hanafi) Subject: Re: Lex Hixon Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: > To Sh Nur al-Khalwati al-Jerrahi How my friend do I complete with you? Some five loved ones have passed this year each a mate to our Beloved When we first met you kissed my cheeks the imprint of your lips at least once a month at night asleep reverberates: Allah, Allah, la il ha il illah and I have flown toward paradise in dreams which make today seem like last years fadded flowers And remeber in Boulder climbing, with me complaining about my back On a mountain embracing, you and I praying, for my dad that night I learned the whole Qu 'ran listening to you and the el Fatiah I never felt so free as I, witnesing release, and feeling a generation of pain vanishing, Diagnosed with leuckemia you laughed and said not now five weeks later each tear dropped blood cell disappeared One night we sat and watched a mass conversion like constelations in the sky the star and cresent rising and you laughing telling me you were just following my orders and the demand of your little Egyption brother's vision And now detachment of a diffrent kind seems to be the calling and I wish I could tell you that I do feel complete and I wish that I knew how I could best let you go and I know that the learning is always beginning and I pray that all your friends prayer's like a bouquet are picked and delivered for you and by you at the feet of the throne as you surrender your heart to the Source of us all How I love you my darling, Jabriel. > > ----------------------------------------- Jabriel Hanafi Dynamics Unlimited Suite 806 327 Maitland Victoria B.C. V9A 7G7 Voice (604) 384 6629 Fax (604) 380 9909 From tariqas-approval Fri Nov 3 03:20:50 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA23387; Fri, 3 Nov 1995 08:23:29 -0500 Received: from relay1.UU.NET by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA23367; Fri, 3 Nov 1995 08:23:28 -0500 Received: from pirate by relay1.UU.NET with SMTP id QQzogj12274; Fri, 3 Nov 1995 08:23:43 -0500 (EST) Received: by pirate (5.x/SMI-SVR4) id AA15814; Fri, 3 Nov 1995 08:20:51 -0500 Date: Fri, 3 Nov 1995 08:20:50 -0500 (EST) From: Gisela Webb To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: Re: Horrible situation in the Southern Sudan In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: Amen. Gisela On Mon, 30 Oct 1995, Zaineb wrote: > Assalamu alaykum wa rahmatullah. > > Just for the record I am horrified and appalled by what is being done in > the name of Islam not only in Sudan, but in Algeria, and elsewhere. I > have stated these views in other forums but haven't here. Now that the > subject has come up I'd like to add my voice to others who denounce > violence and who denounce those committing the violence whether in the > name of religion or not. > > With best wishes to all, > > Zaineb > From tariqas-approval Thu Nov 2 22:50:51 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA01782; Fri, 3 Nov 1995 09:51:06 -0500 Received: from lafn.org by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA01725; Fri, 3 Nov 1995 09:51:01 -0500 Received: by lafn.org id AA07452 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for tariqas@world.std.com); Fri, 3 Nov 1995 06:50:51 -0800 Date: Fri, 3 Nov 1995 06:50:51 -0800 Message-Id: <199511031450.AA07452@lafn.org> From: an525@lafn.org (Ivan Ickovits) To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: Re: horrible situations Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: Please forgive my brashness. This is from the jewish texts known as the Neveim -- the prophets! which may be translated per the King James version and included in the christian canon. But as we say La Illaha il allah (Hua)! / Shema Yisrael YHVH elocheinu YHVH echad! Raqib in Santa Monica > >as-salaamu 'alaykum, > >You might like this series from the Christian Old Testament if you are into >quaking: > > Jeremiah 31:31-34 Behold... I will make a new covenant... I > will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their > hearts; and will be their God... And they shall teach no more > every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, > Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of > them unto the greatest of them... and I will remember their sin > no more. (Also see Ezekiel 36:26-28.) > >>The world is neither Paradise nor, no matter how much it may seem at times, >>it is the true Fire. > >Could you recast this sentence so it makes the sense you have in mind? > >>The experience of the world is for each soul a unique personal examination >>based on Q7:172. >> >>Read it and quake. > >Is this English translation reasonable for Q7:172: > > When your Lord brings forth from their loins > the offspring of the children of Adam, > He makes them witnesses over themselves, > (and asks): "Am I not your Lord?" > 'Indeed', they reply. 'We bear witness,' -- > lest you should say on the Day of Resurrection: > "We were not aware of this;" > >>A. N. Durkee > >The idea that God is within each of us is clear in Jeremiah, and the idea >that we witness ourselves seems clear in Q7:172... God is in us all if we >but still ourselves and love our neighbors as we love our nafs... >God is both immanent and transcendent... thus the reason sufis are >pantheists. There is nothing but God! There is no God but God! La illaha -- >el il Al lah! or La ila ha -- illa 'llah! or La el la ha -- el Al lah hu! > >What point were you trying to make? > >tanzen of tahoe > > > -- q k From tariqas-approval Fri Nov 3 05:30:49 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA06476; Fri, 3 Nov 1995 10:32:08 -0500 Received: from virginia.edu (uvaarpa.Virginia.EDU) by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA06420; Fri, 3 Nov 1995 10:32:04 -0500 Received: from poe.acc.virginia.edu by uvaarpa.virginia.edu id aa10051; 3 Nov 95 10:32 EST Received: from [128.143.3.210] (ara-mac-210.itc.Virginia.EDU [128.143.3.210]) by poe.acc.Virginia.EDU (8.7.1/8.6.6) with SMTP id KAA135955 for ; Fri, 3 Nov 1995 10:31:52 -0500 Message-Id: <199511031531.KAA135955@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU> X-Sender: nd4n@poe.acc.virginia.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 3 Nov 1995 10:30:49 -0500 To: tariqas@world.std.com From: "A.N. Durkee" Subject: Re: horrible situations Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: >as-salaamu 'alaykum, > >You might like this series from the Christian Old Testament if you are into >quaking: > > Jeremiah 31:31-34 Behold... I will make a new covenant... I > will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their > hearts; and will be their God... And they shall teach no more > every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, > Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of > them unto the greatest of them... and I will remember their sin > no more. (Also see Ezekiel 36:26-28.) > >>The world is neither Paradise nor, no matter how much it may seem at times, >>it is the true Fire. > >Could you recast this sentence so it makes the sense you have in mind? > >>The experience of the world is for each soul a unique personal examination >>based on Q7:172. >> >>Read it and quake. > >Is this English translation reasonable for Q7:172: > > When your Lord brings forth from their loins > the offspring of the children of Adam, > He makes them witnesses over themselves, > (and asks): "Am I not your Lord?" > 'Indeed', they reply. 'We bear witness,' -- > lest you should say on the Day of Resurrection: > "We were not aware of this;" > >>A. N. Durkee > >The idea that God is within each of us is clear in Jeremiah, and the idea >that we witness ourselves seems clear in Q7:172... God is in us all if we >but still ourselves and love our neighbors as we love our nafs... >God is both immanent and transcendent... thus the reason sufis are >pantheists. There is nothing but God! There is no God but God! La illaha -- >el il Al lah! or La ila ha -- illa 'llah! or La el la ha -- el Al lah hu! > >What point were you trying to make? > >tanzen of tahoe dear tanzen of tahoe, i was not trying to make any point. rather i was suggesting that in considering 'horrible situations' we reconsider the actual purpose of life and seek to understand events in view of the revelations of Allah rather than our often subjective analysis of what is or is not going on especially in the realm of 'horrible situations'. perhaps what we consider to be 'horrible situations' are in reality accelerated learning situations and what we might consider to be ideal situations are in fact situations conducive to sleep and forgetfulness again depending on where and how one looks at events and circumstances. in short it is question of both perspective and prior information. if the ayat is clearly understood, and many great mufassarin have written on this ayat, it provides another way of seeing how 'horrible situations' can serve as opportunities for fulfilling our original covenant made with Allah in pre-eternity. your various remarks about the immanent and the transcendent, pantheism qua sufism and the analysis of laa 'ilahaa 'illa-llah seem a bit 'stretched' or 'strained' from the perspecitve of both language {Arabic} and metaphysic. that is another dimension and one which i am afraid is useless to enter as it never goes anywhere and only leads to animosity and further mis-understanding. i continue hold that if you really understand the meaning of Q7:172 {and i again suggest reading the tafisr of the early sufi Shaykh Sahl at-Tustari, may Allah sanctify his secret} that you will truly quake and maybe even shake and inshallah awake to another view of what actually is going on here on earth. wa salaam A. N. Durkee Green Mountain From tariqas-approval Thu Nov 2 23:45:25 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA17365; Fri, 3 Nov 1995 10:45:52 -0500 Received: from lafn.org by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA17299; Fri, 3 Nov 1995 10:45:47 -0500 Received: by lafn.org id AA14684 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for tariqas@world.std.com); Fri, 3 Nov 1995 07:45:25 -0800 Date: Fri, 3 Nov 1995 07:45:25 -0800 Message-Id: <199511031545.AA14684@lafn.org> From: an525@lafn.org (Ivan Ickovits) To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: [Re: Melchisidek] Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: Thought this cross postings would be of some interest. Anyone have some good MelciZedeq stories? Raqib in Santa Monica Some kabbalistic sources associate MelciZedeq with Shem the son of Noah (Nuach) peace be upon him. Dear Raj and fellow travellers Melchisidek is an important figure in several esoteric orders. In Genisis he meets Abaraham after the latter has conquered the Kings of Edom, who are unbalanced force. According to some esoteric traditions like the Templars, ( see "The Templar Tradition in the Age of Aquarius" by Gaetan Delaforge, Threshold Books) this is a symbolic act of the highest importance, balancing the warring parts of the self. He is offered bread and wine symbolic of nourishment, physical and spiritual. Wine often symbolizes the Life force itself. Other symbols of Melchisedek are the honey bee's six sided cell, similar to the six rayed star of David, and wheat. Priesthood in this Order is reserved for the most developed members , but seems to occur in a number of different traditions. Delaforge comments that two initiatic lineages derive from Melchisidek through Abraham, that of Israel ( Judaism and Christianity) and that of Jethro ( Arabia and Africa ). To be a priest of the Order of Melchisedek means in the Templar tradition that one has done the spiritual work on oneself to attain a balanced state, which allows one to act as a pure vehicle for the Divine. A priest offering the Eucharist in this way would be a fitting receptacle to allow the Divine One to celebrate the ritual through them. Those who would participate in this would experience a transformation of consciousness, due to the baraka transmitted in the consecration. Delaforge comments this is rare in todays world. Interestingly enough I have been reading the works of a French Christian Gnostic Bishop, Robert Ambelain, who sees the sacrifice of bread and wine as the reality alluded to the alchemical symbolism of white and red. It exists in both the Jewish and the Christian traditions. -- q k From tariqas-approval Fri Nov 3 06:01:26 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA29717; Fri, 3 Nov 1995 11:01:40 -0500 Received: from cornell.edu by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA29688; Fri, 3 Nov 1995 11:01:38 -0500 Received: from orie.cornell.edu (PIVOT.ORIE.CORNELL.EDU [128.84.138.201]) by cornell.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id LAA18184 for ; Fri, 3 Nov 1995 11:01:37 -0500 Received: by orie.cornell.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA11501; Fri, 3 Nov 95 11:01:26 EST Date: Fri, 3 Nov 95 11:01:26 EST From: johara@orie.cornell.edu (Johara Shahabuddin) Message-Id: <9511031601.AA11501@orie.cornell.edu> To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: Lex Hixon Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: Dear Everyone, I never met Lex Hixon, but continue to read a book by him, `Heart of the Koran'. I knew nothing of him till I read this book. Then I saw a book by him about Kali, or Durga. And now I read something he wrote from a Buddhist reference point. I am moved by it. And am amazed by him... and perhaps in love with his teaching... My salaams and prayers go to him and to all those who knew and loved him and were loved by him. Johara From tariqas-approval Fri Nov 3 00:36:52 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA26241; Fri, 3 Nov 1995 11:37:14 -0500 Received: from diamond.sierra.net by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA26110; Fri, 3 Nov 1995 11:36:55 -0500 Received: from LOCALNAME (tol-d228.sierra.net) by diamond.sierra.net with SMTP id AA11351 (5.67b8/IDA-1.5 for ); Fri, 3 Nov 1995 08:36:50 -0800 Message-Id: <199511031636.AA11351@diamond.sierra.net> X-Sender: frank@sierra.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.5 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 03 Nov 1995 08:36:52 -0800 To: tariqas@world.std.com From: frank@sierra.net (Tanzen Frank Gaude) Subject: Re: horrible situations Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: as-salaamu 'alaykum, A.N. Durkee, and All! >i continue hold that if you really understand the meaning of Q7:172 {and i >again suggest reading the tafisr of the early sufi Shaykh Sahl at-Tustari, >may Allah sanctify his secret} that you will truly quake and maybe even >shake and inshallah awake to another view of what actually is going on here >on earth. Maybe these two pieces will help: "Ignore the opinions of others. Let the rumors of your foolishness spread far and wide. None of it matters in the least. Busy yourself with the burning of all of the furniture in the house of the mind. When the job is finished, dynamite the foundations and bulldoze the lot." --author unknown "The way of love is not a subtle argument. The door there is devastation. Birds make great sky-circles of their freedom. How did they learn it? They fall, and falling, they're given wings." --Jelaluddin Rumi, mystic and poet Mr. Durkee you do sing well to the choir! Keep it up! tanzen of tahoe From tariqas-approval Fri Nov 3 00:42:00 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA00160; Fri, 3 Nov 1995 11:42:16 -0500 Received: from island.amtsgi.bc.ca (Island.islandnet.com) by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA00120; Fri, 3 Nov 1995 11:42:14 -0500 Received: from Lanz.islandnet.com by island.amtsgi.bc.ca with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0tBPBx-0005XrC; Fri, 3 Nov 95 08:42 PST Message-Id: Date: Fri, 3 Nov 95 08:42 PST X-Sender: dynamics@islandnet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: tariqas@std.com From: dynamics@islandnet.com (Jabreil Hanafi) Subject: Lex Hixon Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: To Sh Nur al-Khalwati al-Jerrahi How my friend do I complete with you? Some five loved ones have passed this year each a mate to our Beloved When we first met you kissed my cheeks the imprint of your lips at least once a month at night asleep reverberates: Allah, Allah, la il ha il illah and I have flown toward paradise in dreams which make today seem like last years fadded flowers And remeber in Boulder climbing, with me complaining about my back On a mountain embracing, you and I praying, for my dad that night I learned the whole Qu 'ran listening to you and the el Fatiah I never felt so free as I, witnesing release, and feeling a generation of pain vanishing, Diagnosed with leuckemia you laughed and said not now five weeks later each tear dropped blood cell disappeared One night we sat and watched a mass conversion like constelations in the sky the star and cresent rising and you laughing telling me you were just following my orders and the demand of your little Egyption brother's vision And now detachment of a diffrent kind seems to be the calling and I wish I could tell you that I do feel complete and I wish that I knew how I could best let you go and I know that the learning is always beginning and I pray that all your friends prayer's like a bouquet are picked and delivered for you and by you at the feet of the throne as you surrender your heart to the Source of us all How I love you my darling, Jabriel. ----------------------------------------- Jabriel Hanafi Dynamics Unlimited Suite 806 327 Maitland Victoria B.C. V9A 7G7 Voice (604) 384 6629 Fax (604) 380 9909 From tariqas-approval Fri Nov 3 07:59:07 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA07157; Fri, 3 Nov 1995 12:59:34 -0500 Received: from emout04.mail.aol.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA06872; Fri, 3 Nov 1995 12:59:16 -0500 Received: by emout04.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id MAA29699 for tariqas@world.std.com; Fri, 3 Nov 1995 12:59:07 -0500 Date: Fri, 3 Nov 1995 12:59:07 -0500 From: ASHA101@aol.com Message-Id: <951103125906_97099795@emout04.mail.aol.com> To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: Re: Meditation on Wittgenstein Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: <<628. So we could say: The arbitrary movement is characerized by the absence of astonishment. And now I don't want, that one asks "But why don't we astonish here?">> Boy oh boy! It is like a mystery...... You are astonished when you are observer (shahid) You are not just an observer when you identify with the acting, as in personal will. Why is a person astonished when in the state of observation? Well presumably because the process of awakening involves allowing yourself to identify with god's point of view as your own. Which is to say that being awake requires you to lay yourself as an open field upon which god sows the seed, and that seed is allways so much more than you could have drawn (conceived) of out of your own identitiy that you are quite astonished and overwhelmed. Perhaps the reason for astonisment is the ablility to see how amazing the act is, or perhaps it is the ability to act (or see) far beyond the capacity of that with which you had previously identified yourself. So I think he may simply be refering to the capacity of awakening from one's personal and limited identity which one does through self observation. Perhaps this is why some scientists have spoken of wonder as being so crucial to their own scientific process of discovery; that it is impossible to discover without wonder. Observation without wonder is observation with a bias, and therefore not observation at all. Asha From tariqas-approval Fri Nov 3 02:02:16 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA09970; Fri, 3 Nov 1995 13:02:22 -0500 Received: from desiree.teleport.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA09946; Fri, 3 Nov 1995 13:02:19 -0500 Received: from kelly.teleport.com (bergner@kelly.teleport.com [192.108.254.10]) by desiree.teleport.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id KAA08280 for ; Fri, 3 Nov 1995 10:02:18 -0800 From: Paul Bergner Message-Id: <199511031802.KAA08280@desiree.teleport.com> Subject: Re: Lex Hixon To: tariqas@world.std.com Date: Fri, 3 Nov 1995 10:02:16 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <9511031601.AA11501@orie.cornell.edu> from "Johara Shahabuddin" at Nov 3, 95 11:01:26 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24beta] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 908 Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: > > Dear Everyone, > I never met Lex Hixon, but continue to read a book by him, `Heart of the > Koran'. I knew nothing of him till I read this book. Then I saw > a book by him about Kali, or Durga. And now I read something he wrote > from a Buddhist reference point. I am moved by it. And am amazed by him... > and perhaps in love with his teaching... > My salaams and prayers go to him and to all those who knew and loved > him and were loved by him. > Johara > He also wrote Atom From the Sun of Knowledge, from Sufism, the Mother of the Bhuddas, from Mahayana Buddhism, and the Great Swan, from Vedanta. His first book Coming Home, had sections on each of the great religions. Someone once asked him "What's the point of working in all these traditions? Its like digging a lot of shallow little holes instead of one deep one." He replied "Why not dig a lot of deep holes?" Abdul Mustafa From tariqas-approval Fri Nov 3 09:42:05 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA02293; Fri, 3 Nov 1995 14:41:31 -0500 Received: from cap1.CapAccess.org by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA02242; Fri, 3 Nov 1995 14:41:26 -0500 Received: (from bmccoy@localhost) by cap1.CapAccess.org (8.6.12/8.6.10) id OAA07311; Fri, 3 Nov 1995 14:42:06 -0500 Date: Fri, 3 Nov 1995 14:42:05 -0500 (EST) From: "Brett W. McCoy" To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: Re: horrible situations In-Reply-To: <199511022343.AA08616@diamond.sierra.net> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: On Thu, 2 Nov 1995, Tanzen Frank Gaude wrote: > You might like this series from the Christian Old Testament if you are into > quaking: > > Jeremiah 31:31-34 Behold... I will make a new covenant... I > will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their > hearts; and will be their God... And they shall teach no more > every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, > Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of > them unto the greatest of them... and I will remember their sin > no more. (Also see Ezekiel 36:26-28. Does this have anuything to do with the Quaker church? > The idea that God is within each of us is clear in Jeremiah, and the idea > that we witness ourselves seems clear in Q7:172... God is in us all if we > but still ourselves and love our neighbors as we love our nafs... > God is both immanent and transcendent... thus the reason sufis are > pantheists. There is nothing but God! There is no God but God! La illaha -- > el il Al lah! or La ila ha -- illa 'llah! or La el la ha -- el Al lah hu! The Gospel of Thomas (not in the canonical Christian texts, but a Gnostic doctrine) makes the idea of The God Within even more explicit. There is also a passage where Jesus refers to the man of God as a 'passerby', which parallels some passages of Mohammed. Of course, this Gospel is considered heretical by Christian Orthodoxy, since it does not follow the dogma that God is separate from man and is denies any Trinity. Brett W. McCoy | "Go not to the Elves for counsel, bmccoy@capaccess.org | for they will say both no and yes" Minstrel, Mage, Sage, Wooer of Women | -- JRR Tolkien and General Friend of all Nature... |