From tariqas-digest-approval@europe.std.com Sun Jul 7 07:22:43 1996 Date: Mon, 24 Jun 1996 17:07:27 -0400 (EDT) From: tariqas-digest-approval@europe.std.com Reply-To: tariqas-digest@world.std.com To: tariqas-digest@world.std.com Subject: tariqas-digest V1 #28 tariqas-digest Monday, 24 June 1996 Volume 01 : Number 028 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: maarof@pc.jaring.my Date: Mon, 24 Jun 1996 14:01:04 +0800 Subject: Several Adams (Re: Ibn Arabi's dream) Assalamualaikum On Fri, 21 Jun 1996, Fariduddien wrote: > >Assalamu alaikum, > ...[Ibn Arabi's dream]... >What sticks in my mind particularly is this apparent hadith (which I have >never heard of before), that "God created one hundred thousand Adams." > >Wassalam, > >Fariduddien Rice > Dear Farid This is the second time i encountered this "hadith". The first, during a talk with a martial-art friend. I've tried to check this hadith in Imam Nawawi's Riyadhus Shalihin but couldn't find it. I also tried to find any resemblace to this *hadith* in Ghazzali's Ihya, but no mention of this hadith about the earlier Adams. About this hadith (existence of earlier Adams), my martial-art friend said: God made several Adams and mentioned a hadith to support that. And he continued: "Those earlier Adams were the people of the lost continent of Mu and Atlantis." Well... I laughed at him after that :) Still, he was very serious about it. However I find there is a verse in the Quran to support this theory of several Adams, especially 2:30 -- "Behold, thy Lord said to the angels: "I wil create A vicegerent on earth," They said: "Wilt thu place therein one who will make Mischief herein and shed blood?- Whilst we do celebrate Thy praises And glorify Thy hly (name)?" He said: "I know what ye know not." (2:30) Abdullah Yusuf Ali's translation It seemed to me, there were already mankind on earth (earlier Adams) but they destroyed themselves (?) as said by the angels. In Ghazzali's Ihya, I read that God made the Kaaba about 2,000 years before the creation of Adam. Well brother Farid, if you have any new information about the hadith, could you please inform me. Salam your brother maarof ------------------------------ From: maarof@pc.jaring.my Date: Mon, 24 Jun 1996 15:35:58 +0800 Subject: Kaaba (Re: 11 questions on Ibn Arabi's dream) Assalamualaikum Dear Rabia I find it very hard to answer your questions about the interpretatin of Ibn Arabi's dream. Firstly, I haven't read Futuhat al-Makiyyah, so I don't know what relation of the dream to the whole picture of the book. And I have vague ideas how your questions really related to Ibn Arabi's dream... You posed some questions about the Kaaba, the tawaf (circumbulation) and the black stone. I hope a passage from Ghazzali's Ihya below will help us in our search to understand and benefit from Ibn Arabi's dream. Pilgrimage (Hajj) - ----------------- "Pilgrimage is one of the pillars of Islam, the beauty of divine service for the whole life, the end of actions, the perfection of Islam and the foundation of religion. On the day of pilgrimage, God revealed the following verse: Today I have perfected your religion for you and am pleased to give you Islam as a religion (5:3) ..." Kaaba and Tawaf (circumbulation) - -------------------------------- There is in Hadis that when Adam performed all rites of the pilgrimage, the angels saw him and said: O Adam, your Hajj has been accepted. We built the Kaaba two thousands years before you. There is in Hadis that God looks to the inmate of the world every night. He looks first to the inhabitants of Mecca and out of them fist to the inhabitants of Kaaba. He forgives one whom he sees making Tawaf and He forgives one who He sees standing towards the Kaaba and He forgives and forgives one whom He sees praying in the Kaaba. A friend of God said: The sun does not set in unless and Abdal makes Tawaf of the Kaaba and it does not set in unless a friend of God makes its Tawaf. When this sort of Tawaf will end, it will be the cause of being lifted away from the world. Then the people will see in the morning that it has been lifted away and they will find no sign therein. Then after it, nobody will make pilgrimage for seven years. The Anti Christ will appear and Jesus Christ will come down and will kill Anti Christ. Then the Resurection will come near. There is in Hadis: Before its lifting, the Kaaba will be circumbulated always. The Kaaba was twice destroyed and will be lifted the third time. The Prophet said: God says: When I wish to destroy the world, I will begin it first with My house and will destroy it first, Then immediately after it the world will be destroyed. Seven rules of Tawaf (circumbulation) ------------------------------------- 1. Observe the conditions of prayer in Tawaf. Be pure from all sorts of uncleanliness. Tawaf is like prayer, except conversation is allowed. It shall be done when the ihram dress is prescribed. 2. Wait at the black stone which is the preliminary point of cicling the Kaaba 3. Recite at the start of Tawaf: In the name of God, God is Greatest. O God, I began this circling after putting faith in Thee, testifying to the truth of Thy Book, fulfilling promise with Thee and following the ways of Thy Apostle Muhammad (s.a.w). 4. After crossing the black stone, recite when you reach the door of the Kaaba: O God, this House is Thine, this safe place is Thine and this place is the place of refuge from Hell to Thee. 5-6 There are recitations at every point around the Kaaba as prescibed and you will go around the Kaaba seven times. 7. After finishing Tawaf, pray two rakaat at Maqam Ibrahim following the Prophet and make invocations. The Prophet said: He who makes the Tawaf of the Kaaba seven times and then pray two rakaat will get rewards of setting free a slave. Black Stone - ----------- "In Hadis: 'The Black Stone is a jewel out of the jewels of Paradise. It will be raised upon ressurection Day. It will have two eyes and one tongue with which it will speak. It will bear witness for everyone who kissed it and testified its truth.' The Prophet used to kiss it much. It was narated that Hazrat Omar once made prostration over it. He was then making tawaf (circumbulation) riding and he placed his staff in his hand on it, and kissed one end of it. He said once after kissing it: I know certainly that you are a mere piece of stone and you can not do any benefit or harm. Then he wept and raised his voice high. Then he said to Hazrat Ali behind him: O Abul Hassan, take advice and intercede, your prayer will be accepted. Hazrat Ali said: O Commander of the Faithful, it has got benefit and harms. He asked: In what way? He said: When God took promises from the decendants of Adam, He wrote a scroll on them and impressed it on this stone. It will bear witness for those who fulfilled their promise and against the infidel for infidelity. Kissing the black stone: When you kiss the black stone, think that it is a sign of allegiance and kiss His hand. Be firm in you will that you are fulfilling your promise. The Prophet said: The black stone is the right hand of God in the world. As a man handshake with his brother, so God laso handshakes with the people by means of the black stone. - ------------------------ Dear Rabia, I hope this will help you in your search for the answers. salam maarof ------------------------------ From: barzakh@idola.net.id Date: Mon, 24 Jun 1996 17:57:34 +0700 Subject: Re:faith and heal(to Lalla) At 07:38 PM 6/23/96 +0100, you wrote: > >You must know Michael >I'm an ordinary Mureed >I smoke too much and have bronchitis >Sometimes I do my practices >And other times I just don't do them. >I've had a taste of God's Big love >And write a poem or two because of this. >But I have just began to venture in... >Love Kaffea lalla. > > Bismillahirrahmanirrahim. Assalamu'alaykum, Dear Lalla, Hey, I'm a smoker too! I usually consume about a dozen clove cigarettes a day (Clove cigarettes are heavy class cigarettes, those who are not used to it, will feel dizzy at first try). Anyway, my Sufi master taught me that to get rid of lung and respiratory problems, one should read Sura Al-Shams at each Fajr (Dawn) prayer, when the air is still pure and cool. Maybe this will help. I'm also a novice in this Path, still got a long way to go... Love to all of you. Wassalamu'alaykum, your novice brother, Michael Roland ------------------------------ From: informe@best.com Date: Mon, 24 Jun 1996 05:03:19 -0700 Subject: Spirituality and Significant Others I'd like to ask Tariqas members for their thoughts about how their romantic and spiritual lives have interacted. As I mentioned here previously, my girlfriend is lukewarm to Sufism and somewhat more interested in spiritual work in general. I have never tried to get her to join me in any sort of practice, or even a discussion about my interests, under the theory that if she sees changes in me that she likes, she may be interested, but in the absence of objective phenomena, there is no point in bringing it up first. Obviously I'm not saintly enough to kindle her interest, so I have only myself to blame. Unfortunately, most of our spare time is taken up with watching television or movies. She has limited mobility from various physical problems, a greater or lesser degree of permanent pain from an auto accident 20 years ago, and a high degree of job stress. She basically just wants to vegetate at night and on weekends (not a judgement; this is what she would say as well). To me, this is about as productive as smoking ganja all night long, which I did for about 15 years. And if I let myself, I get caught up in the _X-Files_ too. It's hard enough to stay focussed on the Work yourself, but when your partner is oblivious to it... When things are going well otherwise, I can take the long view and pray for assistance and hope for the best. But when things are not going so well for other reasons - like now - I want to cut and run. I get obsessed with thinking how nice it would be without the 27" TV or even the Macintosh. I imagine myself sitting with a bamboo flute and a floppy hat, ala Kwai Chang Caine, under a California live oak somewhere where I can't see anything made by human beings...you get the idea. I am 44 and spent more than 20 years alone before I met her three years ago, and I much prefer solitude to living with others. There is always a trmendous pulling-apart pressure, but I want to hang in with the relationship. I realize I am conflating a bunch of separate issues here, but...any comments? Yes, I realize that there must be about 5 billion people worse off than my girlfriend and I... Hamza ------------------------------ From: James McCaig Date: Mon, 24 Jun 1996 10:24:24 -0400 Subject: Re: Rod Poesy Dear Kaffea Lalla, These words from Hazrat Inayat Khan may give you and yours some small comfort in these hours. Love and warm regards, At 05:55 PM 6/22/96 +0100, Jacquie Weller wrote: >Dear Friends >Rod Poesy died this afternoon. I know healing sometimes is going home. > Death, what are you? - --I am the shadow of life. Death, of what are you born? - --1 am born of ignorance. Death, where is your abode? - --My abode is in the mind of illusion. Death, do you ever die? - --Yes, when pierced by the arrow of the seer's glance. Death, whom do you draw near to you? - --I draw him closer who is attracted to me. Death, whom do you love? - --I love him who longs for me. Death, whom do you attend? - --I readily attend him who calls on me. Death, whom do you frighten? - --I frighten the one who is not familiar with me. Death, whom do you caress? - --The one who lies trustfully in my arms. Death, with whom are you severe? - --I am severe with him who does not readily respond to my call. Death, whom do you serve? - --I serve the godly, and when he returns home I carry his baggage. Maharaj James McCaig | Sufi Center of Washington Brotherhood/Sisterhood Representative | Keepers of Sufi Center Bookstore United States | http://guess.worldweb.net/sufi jmccaig@worldweb.net ------------------------------ From: James McCaig Date: Mon, 24 Jun 1996 10:24:24 -0400 Subject: Re: Rod Poesy Dear Kaffea Lalla, These words from Hazrat Inayat Khan may give you and yours some small comfort in these hours. Love and warm regards, At 05:55 PM 6/22/96 +0100, Jacquie Weller wrote: >Dear Friends >Rod Poesy died this afternoon. I know healing sometimes is going home. > Death, what are you? - --I am the shadow of life. Death, of what are you born? - --1 am born of ignorance. Death, where is your abode? - --My abode is in the mind of illusion. Death, do you ever die? - --Yes, when pierced by the arrow of the seer's glance. Death, whom do you draw near to you? - --I draw him closer who is attracted to me. Death, whom do you love? - --I love him who longs for me. Death, whom do you attend? - --I readily attend him who calls on me. Death, whom do you frighten? - --I frighten the one who is not familiar with me. Death, whom do you caress? - --The one who lies trustfully in my arms. Death, with whom are you severe? - --I am severe with him who does not readily respond to my call. Death, whom do you serve? - --I serve the godly, and when he returns home I carry his baggage. Maharaj James McCaig | Sufi Center of Washington Brotherhood/Sisterhood Representative | Keepers of Sufi Center Bookstore United States | http://guess.worldweb.net/sufi jmccaig@worldweb.net ------------------------------ From: CWoodsong@aol.com Date: Mon, 24 Jun 1996 10:31:50 -0400 Subject: Re: Spirituality and Significant Others Hi, Hamza! >I'd like to ask Tariqas members for their thoughts about how their romantic >and spiritual lives have interacted. <> wow! I could write a book! ... but i'll spare you. ; ) >As I mentioned here previously, my girlfriend is lukewarm to Sufism and >somewhat more interested in spiritual work in general. I have never tried >to get her to join me in any sort of practice, or even a discussion about >my interests, under the theory that if she sees changes in me that she >likes, she may be interested, but in the absence of objective phenomena, >there is no point in bringing it up first. Obviously I'm not saintly enough >to kindle her interest, so I have only myself to blame. I see this differently. You are perfectly... you. :) There is no 'blame'... I think much depends on what each of you want to get out of the relationship. There is no 'success' or 'failure'... only goals and intentions! If she has no interest... please don't delude yourself into believing that she will when YOU are 'good enough'. She will when she is ready. You can only be yourself... and listen to your heart... when she is ready... you will know. I speak from experience in this one area! :) I lived with my now ex-husband from the time i was 17 years old until two years ago, when i was 37. Of course, being 'kids', we thought we knew everything! <> I was not on any "spiritual path" at the time i met him... nor was he. But over the years, i began to wake up to something within me that needed to be expressed! It was the most difficult (and most BLESSED!) time of my life, realizing that my husband and i were not going to continue as marriage partners. We /couldn't/! We attempted to 'live with it'... both of us... but this most basic difference between us... was really /between/ us. My expectations, goals, intentions were very much in opposition to his... and this was not, even after much deep searching of one another's hearts! going to change... i could not, no way, no how, give up my attachment to God! And my husband could not give up his life goals... one might say... <> we could learn to 'live with it'... but that was not going to be, for us. >imagine myself sitting with a bamboo flute and a floppy hat, ala Kwai Chang >Caine, under a California live oak somewhere where I can't see anything >made by human beings...you get the idea. as long as you don't get to the point of not wanting to see human beings! <> >I am 44 and spent more than 20 years alone before I met her three years >ago, and I much prefer solitude to living with others. There is always a >trmendous pulling-apart pressure, but I want to hang in with the >relationship. I realize I am conflating a bunch of separate issues here, >but...any comments? Ask yourself why you want the relationship... and then from that place you can know how to best acheive that... and make it what you want/need... >Yes, I realize that there must be about 5 billion people worse off than my >girlfriend and I... but this is what /you/ need to deal with... here and now! :) Blessings! love, carol ------------------------------ From: Ellen L Price Date: Mon, 24 Jun 1996 07:40:35 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: Spirituality and Significant Others Hamza, Do you have to join her in watching TV? Is this an excuse on your part not to do something more productive? If you were doing something more productive and interesting with your time would you be a better example to your partner? When you sit and watch TV with her do you communicate anything with her, or do you both just simply disappear? Ellen On Mon, 24 Jun 1996 informe@best.com wrote: > I'd like to ask Tariqas members for their thoughts about how their romantic > and spiritual lives have interacted. > > As I mentioned here previously, my girlfriend is lukewarm to Sufism and > somewhat more interested in spiritual work in general. I have never tried > to get her to join me in any sort of practice, or even a discussion about > my interests, under the theory that if she sees changes in me that she > likes, she may be interested, but in the absence of objective phenomena, > there is no point in bringing it up first. Obviously I'm not saintly enough > to kindle her interest, so I have only myself to blame. > > Unfortunately, most of our spare time is taken up with watching television > or movies. She has limited mobility from various physical problems, a > greater or lesser degree of permanent pain from an auto accident 20 years > ago, and a high degree of job stress. She basically just wants to vegetate > at night and on weekends (not a judgement; this is what she would say as > well). To me, this is about as productive as smoking ganja all night long, > which I did for about 15 years. And if I let myself, I get caught up in the > _X-Files_ too. It's hard enough to stay focussed on the Work yourself, but > when your partner is oblivious to it... > > When things are going well otherwise, I can take the long view and pray for > assistance and hope for the best. But when things are not going so well for > other reasons - like now - I want to cut and run. I get obsessed with > thinking how nice it would be without the 27" TV or even the Macintosh. I > imagine myself sitting with a bamboo flute and a floppy hat, ala Kwai Chang > Caine, under a California live oak somewhere where I can't see anything > made by human beings...you get the idea. > > I am 44 and spent more than 20 years alone before I met her three years > ago, and I much prefer solitude to living with others. There is always a > trmendous pulling-apart pressure, but I want to hang in with the > relationship. I realize I am conflating a bunch of separate issues here, > but...any comments? > > Yes, I realize that there must be about 5 billion people worse off than my > girlfriend and I... > > Hamza > > > ------------------------------ From: CWoodsong@aol.com Date: Mon, 24 Jun 1996 10:47:02 -0400 Subject: one more thing... :) One point that i think is really so important... Spirituality is not an aspect of life... it is the Whole of life. Can we separate our 'spiritual' life from our 'mundane' life? I can't... er, rather, won't! <> love and sweet peas to all! woody ------------------------------ From: ASHA101@aol.com Date: Mon, 24 Jun 1996 13:09:15 -0400 Subject: Re: one more thing... :) Dear Hamza, your question brings a thought to mind - hope it is relevant as your question is bound to bring a wonderful corucopia of thoughts ... Woodson wrote regarding separation of mundane and spiritual life ... >>>> I can't... er, rather, won't! <> <<< I'd add: "er, rather can't" The question (regarding the relationship between ones romantic and one's spiritual life) is, is it a philosophy or a spirituality you are speaking of. Eons ago, when people lived by mytholgy, their myths told them the meaning of what was happening, explaining events, like thunderstorms and girlfriends who aren't seemingly interested in one's deepest passions and yet who is herself an object of one's deepest passions. Interesting event, one most of us can relate to in one way or another. Philosophies don't interpret the meaning of life, they debate it (not that there is anything wrong with that) .... question is, is your religion more of a philosophy or a myth. Of course, by myth i do not mean simply superstition but I (not being an etymologist) wonder if the word myth comes from the word Mithal, a spiritual state described by many sufis as the world of metaphor. In this world of metaphor, everything, even the states (events) of one's relationship has a particular meaning. Of course, one wishes wisdom regarding how to deal with situations, but it is important to know the meaning of that particular situation, as well as some general intuititive wisdom. In one case a certain wisdom may apply but in another case, so clearly similar, the oposite wisdom may apply. Psychology has rightly been described as a kind of spiritual work. The problem that many psychologists find themselves in, it seems to me (not a psychologist) is that they find themselves either picking and choosing wisdoms without regard to the interpretation of the meaning of an event (see the popular Thomas More's books which reflect this criticism of psychology) or they rigidly adhere to one set of meanings only and thus have success in treatment which is spotty at best but curiously undeniably worth while. I would suggest this is because sometimes the psychologist is able to give or work with a wisdom that interprets the meaning of an event in a way that is connected with the whole chain of events and sometimes they are interpreting an event in a way that is either connected with a vague but hopeful intuition (and may not be connected to the real chain of events) or a rigid iterpretation based on only one level and therefore one set of meanings. So, having no periodic table so to speak, they don't really know where they are or where they are going - so results are spotty. Religions (good ones) are based, it seems to me, on a periodic table, at least sufism has a periodic table, the same one that is so clearly evident in Islam and probably judaism. By periodic table i mean this metaphoric map of the spiritual universe. One can go without a map, or one can make up one's own map, or one can decide that since one is on a mountain and you have in your hand a map of a mountain that your map must be of that mountain, .... lots of possibilities i guess, but one thing that one cannot do is not be somewhere that has no direction or place, it is somewhere and until you know where it is you won't know much about which direction you ought to proceed: untill you arrive home (not just the house) then you can say as someone once did "my place is the placeless my trace is the traceless." That is how it think the spiritual life interacts with the romantic - no distinction at all ... Asha ------------------------------ From: informe@best.com Date: Mon, 24 Jun 1996 10:49:36 -0700 Subject: Re: Spirituality and Significant Others >Hamza, > Do you have to join her in watching TV? Is this an excuse on your >part not to do something more productive? If you were doing something >more productive and interesting with your time would you be a better >example to your partner? When you sit and watch TV with her do you >communicate anything with her, or do you both just simply disappear? >Ellen Sometimes we talk while it is going on. I'm there because it is something she wants to do that we can do together; I'd rather be off writing or fooling with the computer in other ways, but it's time we can share. Unfortunately as you suggest it's not very involving as people. We do massage each other every night - in her case, very important for her pain and mobility. But lately I have been feeling more like a caretaker than a boyfriend. To me, a romantic relationship is a sort of third party that gets investments - emotional, physical, spiritual - made in it over time. There has to be some goal above and beyond just escaping from an unpleasant present time. At this point in my life the spiritual component seems the most vital. ------------------------------ From: Keeper of the Dragon Flagon Date: Mon, 24 Jun 1996 15:03:06 Subject: Re: Spirituality and Significant Others >Date: Mon, 24 Jun 1996 05:03:19 -0700 >From: informe@best.com >I'd like to ask Tariqas members for their thoughts about how their romantic >and spiritual lives have interacted. They are, in essence, for me indistinguishable, especially since I hold deepest within me chivalric ideals of honor and respect, and my chivalric soul is my spirituality (as per al-Sulami's _Futuwwah_). >Unfortunately, most of our spare time is taken up with watching television >or movies. She has limited mobility from various physical problems, a >greater or lesser degree of permanent pain from an auto accident 20 years >ago, and a high degree of job stress. She basically just wants to vegetate >at night and on weekends (not a judgement; this is what she would say as >well). To me, this is about as productive as smoking ganja all night long, >which I did for about 15 years. And if I let myself, I get caught up in the >_X-Files_ too. It's hard enough to stay focussed on the Work yourself, but >when your partner is oblivious to it... There are some very interesting Qi Gong excercises she could learn that are specifically designed for people who are immobile or unable to do strenuous activity. While not specifically Sufi, they are not in disharmony with Sufism. But certainly there are other things you can do besides watch TV. Perhaps if you can't lure her away from the tube, you can set an example for her by asking her *before* the TV is on if she would just like to sit and talk for a while (you initiate the topic -- perhaps you want her thoughts on what a certain line in scripture might mean, or some spiritual paradox you can't resolve), or perhaps you could put on soft music and read to her passages from Rumi or Lao Tsu. Or ask her if she'd like a foot rub or a back rub. Or anything similar where you are engaging each others' attention without a blind, idiot glass screen distracting you. >When things are going well otherwise, I can take the long view and pray for >assistance and hope for the best. But when things are not going so well for >other reasons - like now - I want to cut and run. I get obsessed with >thinking how nice it would be without the 27" TV or even the Macintosh. I >imagine myself sitting with a bamboo flute and a floppy hat, ala Kwai Chang >Caine, under a California live oak somewhere where I can't see anything >made by human beings...you get the idea. I know the feeling. >I am 44 and spent more than 20 years alone before I met her three years >ago, and I much prefer solitude to living with others. There is always a >trmendous pulling-apart pressure, but I want to hang in with the >relationship. I realize I am conflating a bunch of separate issues here, >but...any comments? I just got divorced myself after 11 years of marriage because we realized that our paths were diverging and decided we were better off going 'solo' for a while. I have found I enjoy the solitude most of the time, but have this part of me that still feels empty and lonely. When I read some of the medieval Persian tales of Love and Romance, it makes my heart flutter, because I yearn to be in stories like that. - --------------------------------------- Brett W. McCoy "Unix was never designed to keep Istvan Dragosani people from doing stupid things, istvan@gnn.com because that policy would also keep Disciple of the Eastern Mysteries them from doing clever things." of both Love and War -- Doug Gwyn ------------------------------ From: Fred Rice Date: Tue, 25 Jun 1996 06:45:01 +1000 (EST) Subject: Re: Several Adams (Re: Ibn Arabi's dream) Dear Maarof, Assalamu alaikum! On Mon, 24 Jun 1996 maarof@pc.jaring.my wrote: > About this hadith (existence of earlier Adams), my martial-art friend said: God > made several Adams and mentioned a hadith to support that. And he continued: > "Those earlier Adams were the people of the lost continent of Mu and Atlantis." Ibn Arabi doesn't mention Mu and Atlantis in his recalling of the hadith, though :) I wonder where your friend got it from though? Maybe there is another source for the hadith, because my quote of it from a translation from the Futuhat al-Makiyya is an obscure source.... > Well... I laughed at him after that :) Still, he was very serious about it. > > However I find there is a verse in the Quran to support this theory of several > Adams, especially 2:30 -- > > "Behold, thy Lord said to the > angels: "I wil create > A vicegerent on earth," They said: > "Wilt thu place therein one who > will make > Mischief herein and shed blood?- > Whilst we do celebrate Thy praises > And glorify Thy hly (name)?" > He said: "I know what ye know not." > > (2:30) > Abdullah Yusuf Ali's translation > > It seemed to me, there were already mankind on earth (earlier Adams) but they > destroyed themselves (?) as said by the angels. Yes, maybe that is true! > In Ghazzali's Ihya, I read that God made the Kaaba about 2,000 years before > the creation of Adam. > > Well brother Farid, if you have any new information about the hadith, could you > please inform me. I also posted the account of Ibn Arabi's dream on soc.religion.islam, and asked if anyone had heard of the hadith, but unfortunately I received no replies. So I don't know anything new yet, except what you told me about your friend. Your brother, Fariduddien ------------------------------ End of tariqas-digest V1 #28 ****************************