From tariqas-digest-approval@europe.std.com Sun Jul 7 07:23:43 1996 Date: Tue, 25 Jun 1996 20:46:47 -0400 (EDT) From: tariqas-digest-approval@europe.std.com Reply-To: tariqas-digest@world.std.com To: tariqas-digest@world.std.com Subject: tariqas-digest V1 #31 tariqas-digest Tuesday, 25 June 1996 Volume 01 : Number 031 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: barzakh@idola.net.id Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 00:45:43 +0700 Subject: Hamka was a Sufi (was Re: Several Adams) Bismillahirrahmanirrahim. Assalamu'alaykum to all of you, Dear Maarof, At 03:35 PM 6/25/96 +0800, you wrote: > ......................... > About Allahyarham Dr Hamka: He is a great Indonesian muslim. He wrote the >ensiklopedik Tafsir Al-Azhar when he was in prison in the 60's. The reason he >was put into prison because he disagreed with *the brief war* between Malaysia >and Indonesia in the 60's. He is very respected in Malaysia.) > >salam >maarof > > > My Sufi master told me that Dr HAMKA (Haji Abdul Malik Karim Amrullah) was a Sufi. We know that a Sufi can easily recognizes another Sufi. I think it was the prison which made him a Sufi. I always love to see his photographs (there are some in his books), and enjoy his peaceful face, eyes, and smile. He also wrote many romantic novels, beside books about Islam. His book "MODERN SUFISM" is worth to read. It's one of my first introduction to Sufism. It's a pity he died when I was still young, and didn't had a chance to meet him. But he's still in the heart of most Indonesian Moslems, especially among the Minangkabaus. His books and novels are still reprinted until now. About his imprisonment, actually it was the Indonesian Communists Party who persuade the Indonesian government to put him in jail. During the 60s, the communists had a very great influence in Indonesia and Hamka was one of their big enemies. His disagreement at confrontation with Malaysia was only one of the "casus-belly", used by the communists to accuse him as anti-government. The brief time in prison was used by Hamka to write down a complete 30-juz tafsir of the Holy Qur'an. It's truly a masterpiece, with detailed explanations for almost every verse. Hamka was released from jail after the communist falldown (and massacre). More than a quarter million communists and simpatisans were slaughtered at that time, though some are innocent. A very horrible time. It was a time when Moslems should kill or be killed. I wonder how much is Hamka's influence to Moslems in Malaysia? Can you explain more? Love to all. Wassalamu'alaykum, your brother, Michael Roland ------------------------------ From: Frank Gaude Date: Tue, 25 Jun 1996 10:39:11 -0700 Subject: Re: False Face Hello, everybody! CWoodsong@aol.com wrote: > "The principle of cause and effect is at work everywhere... [...] Thanks again, woodsong, for some good stuff! One addition: every effect has a cause and that cause inturn has a cause, all the way down! It's turtles here, turtles there, all the way down and around. > >I wonder, looking at names, if False Face, Creator, Great Lord of the > >Universe, Great Spirit, all equate to Great Mysterious, the un-nameable, > >that which stands behind Allah? > > Rolling Thunder said something very interesting... > "There are many gods, but only one Creator." Certainly, all is of the One... Ray of Creation starts with the Unknown, and the next level removed is called All Galaxies symbolically. Some have called that the level of Archangel. Those of gnosis, those of Summa, the Aryans, those of the Hindus Valley, those sufis predating Jesus and Abraham, called such Aeons or Archons... the next level is that of Angel (All Suns), then Sun, all planets, then Organic Life on Earth as a side octave, then Earth, then Moon, then that place (dimension) of no holy ghost (which of course is back with the Unknown, which mamy label as their God). Thus we go from aught to naught, from dot to circle. Each level and the laws related to that level could be called a demigod. Kahunas call High Self, a person's intuition, "the god". All are just words, words... it makes no difference who says them or where or when they are or were said! What matters is what effect they have on you getting to know You. As an aside, it has snowed about five inches since 5 AM this morning here at our elevation of 7000 feet... such are the ways of the Lord of the High Sierra, as aspect of Earth Mother. Praise be The Lord, Lord of our Lord! Respect goes to all levels of the create, from naught to aught, from vacuum to subatomic particles to molecules to cells to minerals to plants to animals to humans to jinns to angels: al-Hamdu'lillah! Peace, that stillness which nudges us home, tanzen ------------------------------ From: AMBER K WILLIAMS <102064.3531@CompuServe.COM> Date: 25 Jun 96 13:56:17 EDT Subject: Re: Spirituality and Significant Others Dear Ones, At some point in my second marriage, I felt that my husband wasn't right for me. However, I realized that if I divorced him and married again, it was likely that I would end up in the same spot again in a few years--because of my outlook or "inlook" which has nothing to do with the other. So I stuck to it and learned my lessons. We still do have different interests and yet there is an intense love and trust after 10 years and we feel we are struggling together. My husband is willing to work on himself too--without this it probably would not have worked. so one day at a time, we go on together. Certainly, this is not the right path for everyone but I offer it up as one path With Love, Iram ------------------------------ From: Keeper of the Dragon Flagon Date: Tue, 25 Jun 1996 14:00:34 Subject: Re: False Face >>I wonder, looking at names, if False Face, Creator, Great Lord of the >>Universe, >>Great Spirit, all equate to Great Mysterious, the un-nameable, that which >>stands >>behind Allah? > >Rolling Thunder said something very interesting... >"There are many gods, but only one Creator." For some reason, this brings to mind the Nag Hammadi text, "Thunder Perfect Mind". Coincidence? - --------------------------------------- Brett W. McCoy "Unix was never designed to keep Istvan Dragosani people from doing stupid things, istvan@gnn.com because that policy would also keep Disciple of the Eastern Mysteries them from doing clever things." of both Love and War -- Doug Gwyn ------------------------------ From: Keeper of the Dragon Flagon Date: Tue, 25 Jun 1996 14:00:34 Subject: Re: Spirituality and Significant Others >He sounds like a very insecure and controlling man. Keep an eye on your >friend, she may eventually need your help. Oh, I am keeping an eye on her. We've been working on dancing and drumming together lately (she whirls and dances while I drum), which she has found to be very spiritually exhilarating. She knows next to nothing about the Sufis, but she doesn't realize that she is quickly becoming a whirling dervish! - --------------------------------------- Brett W. McCoy "Unix was never designed to keep Istvan Dragosani people from doing stupid things, istvan@gnn.com because that policy would also keep Disciple of the Eastern Mysteries them from doing clever things." of both Love and War -- Doug Gwyn ------------------------------ From: Keeper of the Dragon Flagon Date: Tue, 25 Jun 1996 14:00:35 Subject: Re: Spirituality and Significant Others >Date: Tue, 25 Jun 1996 07:52:12 -0700 (MST) >From: Ellen L Price >Dr. Andrew Wyeth, writer of several books on holistic health, says that >he regularly engauges in "dog" thereapy. His dog is the best therapist >he knows. The sits listening quietly to the Dr.'s problems with total love >and never interrupts or makes any untoward remarks. Does a dog have the Sufi nature...? (To paraphrase an old Zen koan) - --------------------------------------- Brett W. McCoy "Unix was never designed to keep Istvan Dragosani people from doing stupid things, istvan@gnn.com because that policy would also keep Disciple of the Eastern Mysteries them from doing clever things." of both Love and War -- Doug Gwyn ------------------------------ From: RHMH@aol.com Date: Tue, 25 Jun 1996 14:20:53 -0400 Subject: Ghazels from the Divan of Hafiz: XIX XIX Had I but the power to dwell in thy presence, what more could I ask from my star? If clamorous adorers surround thy threshold, who can wonder? for around the sugar the fly must ever be buzzing. What need of a sword to slay the lover, when a glance can take from me half my life? If in both worlds I could breathe a breath with my beloved, that breath would be my gain from both worlds. Since destiny hath so shortened the arm of my desire, how shall I ever attain the height of thy lofty cypress? How shall the drowning wretch discover a way of safety, when the torrent of love hath surrounded him before and behind? If a thousand times I should meet my beloved, the next time she encountereth me she will exclaim, "Who is that man?" Sweet is the coloured wine and the companionship of the beloved. Hafiz, who has lost his heart, will always believe this creed. Ghazels from the Divan of Hafiz Translated by Justin Huntly McCarthy (From a typescript edition in the SIRS Archives, originally transcribed by Murshid Wali Ali Chisti from a copy at the San Francisco Public Library.) ------------------------------ From: Well333@turbonet.com (Jacquie Weller) Date: Tue, 25 Jun 1996 11:45:03 +0100 Subject: Dedicated to Nickie My Daughter, Do not think that you have labored in vain That your prayers did not reach my heart... You gave me the most prescious gift you had, You commited your husband into my arms You gave the jewels of your faith And I give you myself as your Eternal Husband I am your grape-vine that you climb Do not think that I know not your sorrow >From the cruxifiction of the flesh comes reasurrection. I know the burdens that you carry, So give these to my, My Daughter, And let me be the healer of those hearts. Though the way for many is grief and pain; Bitterness, losses, aloness; I will gather each suffering soul and Bring my healing comfort to each... But you must be patient with the seasons Knowing sometimes this happens Sometimes more slowly than we wish and Often by taking little steps. Do not think I do not care about my suffering friends... I am your Heavenly Father, and there is a place in me, that brings great peace. Kaffea Lalla ------------------------------ From: Well333@turbonet.com (Jacquie Weller) Date: Tue, 25 Jun 1996 12:10:57 +0100 Subject: Re: dedicated to Nickie The term father I used is allegorical, and not meant to offend. It is written to Nickie in the form she understands about God, for she, my daughter is a christian, and Nickie calls God her Father. So please do not think that I am promoting any form of religion. I also do not want to offend anyone who refers to God as Mother, or Goddess. This is another form for the same God. May Allah, the God in all and the all in God bless you. ------------------------------ From: CWoodsong@aol.com Date: Tue, 25 Jun 1996 16:06:17 -0400 Subject: Re: Answers (Re: Healing Web Page) Hi Michael! Thank you for your reply! :) >Please ask about things that you are still unclear of. Thank you... it does take me awhile sometimes... :) >The first is by curing their sickness, and the second is by lifting their >spiritual stage. ... >My Sufi master's service here through internet is only the first. I see... thank you for this explanation. >While the second can be obtained from our own sheykhs, >do you have one? no. >I should have add the word "Divine" in front of "spiritual power". >(I hope someone would advice a better English word for this). >Spiritism use power from nature, but some also use power from jinns. >While Divine spiritual power use angelic power. >The angels are the source of this power, and they work only under >the command from good persons (Prophets and Sufis). >Remember that God told all angels to prostrate to Adam (Sorry, I forgot >which verse in the Qur'an mentioning this). >So the angels will obey all human which spiritual and faith qualities >are at least like prophet Adam (peace be upon him). Okay. Let's see if i get it. <> One way to heal is to use an object, say, for instance, a stick. I know that some Medicine People use 'medicine' to give 'power' to certain objects... but, always, always, that power comes through the Great Spirit. The 'powers' of the four directions... these would be powers of nature... yes? Aspects of Self? Are these, in your understanding, power from jinns? >>Of the many witches i know, NONE of them use the help of evil spirits. (I do >>not know what jinn are). >I think they do, but they only don't know that they are helped by >jinns (known in the West as spirits). Can you tell me what you think of tanzen's discussion of "evil"? >Please tell me more about these American witches. I think there are others here who can answer your questions more fully. What i refer to here is neo-paganism... one aspect of which is Wicca, or witchcraft. I don't know anything about it, except that those who follow it are some of the most loving indiviuals i know. I do attend celebrations that follow the Wiccan tradition(s)... circles are always entered in the spirit of "perfect love and perfect trust". The two tenets i am familiar with are to "harm none", and "love is the law". I'm sure others here can tell you much more. >Not all jinns are evil, there are many good jinns too. >I hope your witches are helped by these good ones. There is always asking for the "highest good" in the rituals i have attended... >Anyway, God forbid us to seek help from these jinns (see surah Jin at >Qur'an), >because it will cause them to be arrogant. We are not to ask of the 'good' jinns or the 'bad' jinns? >They also ask for payment too. >Angels don't. hmmm... Thank you for the information on jinns... i'm still confused, but it has nothing to do with you! :) > of course yes, dear sister, >but therapies are helpful to speed up the healing process. okay. :) Thank you also for your explanation of wifq. I find this quite fascinating! :) >So the patients must also work to find money (from their job or business), >not just sitting in their house waiting for an angel to bring bags of gold. <> okay. >but they will stop helping whenever the patients start to do >wicked things (in their business or in their daily life). hmmm... >Please tell me more about this Wicca and these witches you know. Like i said, i don't know much -- only the hearts of those who follow that path... and they are seeking the Light! >God created angels from pure Light. >Maybe there is a connection here with your Wicca. >Maybe your witches also use help from angels using another way. >God knows. Yes. God knows. :) hopefully we are all on the road to find out! :) >In my country all witches ask help from jinns, most of them are evil ones. ... >I think such stories are new for you, aren't they? yes, indeed! Thank you for sharing them. >Thank you again for the questions. >I hope you're satisfied with my answers. we are, let's pray, moving towards more Light, more understanding, more Love! Thank you! >your smiling brother, you have a Beautiful smile, my brother! love to all! woodsong ------------------------------ From: barzakh@idola.net.id Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 03:42:57 +0700 Subject: Re: Spirituality and Significant Others Bismillahirrahmanirrahim. Assalamu'alaykum, At 02:00 PM 6/25/96, Keeper of the Drago wrote: > >Does a dog have the Sufi nature...? (To paraphrase an old Zen koan) >--------------------------------------- > Dear sisters and brothers , There are several Sufi stories about dog which I got from Idries Shah's "The Way of The Sufi". I think they're interesting. Happy reading. (I) Why The Dog Could Not Drink Shibli (a famous Sufi) was asked: "Who guided you in the Path?" He said: "A dog. One day I saw him, almost dead with thirst, standing by the water's edge. Every time he looked at his reflection in the water he was frightened, and withdrew, because he thought it was another dog." "Finally, such was his necessity, he cast away fear and leapt into the water; at which the 'other dog' vanished. The dog found that the obstacle, which was himself, the barrier between him and what he sought, melted away." "In this same way my own obstacle vanished, when I knew that it was what I took to be my own self. And my Way was first shown to me by the behaviour of - a dog" (II) The Sufi Who Called Himself a Dog Maulana Dervish, chief of the Naqshbandi Order and one of its greatest teachers, was sitting one day in his Zavia when a furious cleric forced his way in. "You sit there," shouted the intruder, "dog that you are, sur- rounded by disciples, obeyed by them in every particular! I, on the other hand, call men to strive towards divine mercy through prayer and austerities as is enjoined upon us." At the word 'dog', several of the Seekers rose to eject the fanatic. "Stay," said the Maulana, "for 'dog' is indeed a good word. I am a dog, who obeys his Master, showing the sheep by signs the interpretation of our Master's desires. Like a dog I infuriate the interloper and the thief. And I wag my tail in pleasure when my Master's Friends come near." "Just as barking and wagging and love are attributes of the dog, we exercise them; for our Master has us, and does not do his own barking and wagging." Well, it is not bad being a 'dog', right? Wassalamu'alaykum, your 'puppy' brother, Michael Roland ------------------------------ From: Frank Gaude Date: Tue, 25 Jun 1996 14:12:26 -0700 Subject: Re: Spirituality and Significant Others Hello, folks, Hanza, Lilyan, Brett, all friends! Keeper of the Dragon Flagon (Brett) wrote: > > >Date: Mon, 24 Jun 1996 05:03:19 -0700 > >From: informe@best.com > > >I'd like to ask Tariqas members for their thoughts about how their > >romantic and spiritual lives have interacted. > > They are, in essence, for me indistinguishable, especially since I hold > deepest within me chivalric ideals of honor and respect, and my chivalric > soul is my spirituality (as per al-Sulami's _Futuwwah_). [...] > >I get obsessed with > >thinking how nice it would be without the 27" TV or even the Macintosh. I > >imagine myself sitting with a bamboo flute and a floppy hat, ala Kwai > >Chang Caine, under a California live oak somewhere where I can't see > >anything made by human beings...you get the idea. > > I know the feeling. > > >I am 44 and spent more than 20 years alone before I met her three years > >ago, and I much prefer solitude to living with others. There is always a > >trmendous pulling-apart pressure, but I want to hang in with the > >relationship. I realize I am conflating a bunch of separate issues here, > >but...any comments? > > I just got divorced myself after 11 years of marriage because we realized that > our paths were diverging and decided we were better off going 'solo' for a > while. I have found I enjoy the solitude most of the time, but have this part > of me that still feels empty and lonely. When I read some of the medieval > Persian tales of Love and Romance, it makes my heart flutter, because I yearn > to be in stories like that. Lilyan wrote: > Following shari'a eliminates the folly of intimacy outside of commitment, > without the benefit of forethought or consideration - the cart before the > horse. But purifying one's intention - not basing one's choices and > actions on nafs/desire is much trickier, especially in this context. If > one really wants something, the nafs' tendency is to turn a blind eye to > whatever stands in the way of getting it - even if it is the truth. Iram wrote: > At some point in my second marriage, I felt that my husband wasn't right > for me. However, I realized that if I divorced him and married again, > it was likely that I would end up in the same spot again in a few > years--because of my outlook or "inlook" which has nothing to do with > the other. So I stuck to it and learned my lessons. We still do have > different interests and yet there is an intense love and trust after 10 > years and we feel we are struggling together. My husband is willing to > work on himself too--without this it probably would not have worked. > so one day at a time, we go on together. > Certainly, this is not the right path for everyone but I offer it up as > one path Wow! Hanza, you have brought up an interesting topic to many people in this day and age. How to be conscious enough to engage in pair-bonding that lasts a lifetime. From what I hear there are as many divorces as there are marriages these days, starting in the late 50s. Seems that people don't wish to take the time to "work things out" with their mates, it's so easy to just split. But, as Iram points out, what do we learn from doing that? When in my teens I was to become a Catholic priest, deflected, I seemed to be directed to the way of science, responsibility, and the "good life". I dated many girls and "played around". On leaving college, moving to California in 1954, and seeing my to-be wife for the first time, something came over me. The knowledge that this was to be my soul-mate for this duration here on earth. I vowed to myself if she would marry me that I would never leave her. She said "yes" to THE question. And no, Lilyan, we never had sex before our marriage vows were completed (I remembered my father saying to me many times, "What you can do to your wife before you are married, others will do after"). That first time came at Lake Arrowhead in southern California. I was a bull! Took me two years to become gentle and understanding of Betty's need, not just my own. Such starts the play of transforming the lower nafs into more than just instinct, creating habits that harmonize. I took her then that I loved her such that I would never leave her! I think she believed I was sincere. From that moment on we have had few quarrels, no fights. I made the money so she could take care of the children as they came. We loved them as we loved ourselves... a household of joy, fun, laughter. The instinct to mate, have sex, seems to be overly strong in the average male, taking care of the children less so, than the average female. We see great diversity in mating among the animal kingdom, from mating for life to the quickie job of insemination. But the female seems to provide most of the nurturing. Animals have the same instincts as people, but people have additionally both intellect and intuition, coming from eons of evolution. The downside to these latter attributes is a strong feeling of being separate, being individual. Such the longing for a union we "know" is possible, because we have had it before. Such union occurs on many levels, physical, mental, and spiritual. And there are levels within these levels. I have been asked over and over what does one do to stay together "til death do us part"? Remember we have four married children with four grand children. Lately my answer has been: give each other space, do things together and also do things with others, don't use the other as a crutch, don't complain of faults, see the good where there is no good, hug each other a lot, say the words "I love you" at least once a day to the beloved, and 100 times a day to The Beloved, don't talk to each other too much, don't analyze either the good or the bad, give thanks moment-by-moment, be the prince and princess you were fated to be: The Slayer of Sloth. (Betty's hobbies are music, piano and dulsimer, gardening, and making high-fire pottery, along with being kind to everything; mine: computers, gardening, computers, being kind to everything, computers, prayers, and did I say comuters? She has no direct interest in what we call spiritual things, she lives it.) Now have I always been faithful to Betty in these over-40 years of marriage? Yes, in my heart I have been. I did enjoy the pleasures of a few sport's ladies long ago, but that was long ago. And I still, even at this age, get great joy at looking at the form and movements of women! They are so beautiful, so sensitive, so full of grace! I hug them, as well as men, whenever I think I have permission to do so. For most men, Lilyan, it starts with the instincts of mating, this is the infatuation some call love, and over time such can become Love, through desire to "work it out". And such has nothing to do with the physical, nothing to do even with the mental, i.e., the intellectual, but with the spiritual, with getting back home taking your mate with you, hand in hand, hearts merged, one core: The Two Has Become One, following Jesus' advice in Gospel of Thomas. Intellect, that conscious self, pulls instinct up, becomes one, and that union merges with intuition, forming another "one"; from there it is all "flying", that heaven wine, that juice made from water (truth from Adamic Crack) through lifting (tolerance) earth stone. Hanza, follow your heart, the one that bleeds with Love, the one that plays THAT flute. Some Christians show the Sacred Heart of Jesus: an eternal flame atop, with a crown of thrones around tender tissue. The heart of the sufi, along with all hearts, holds that tiny quiver pulling you to Truth, Tolerance, Wisdom, Justice, Faith, Unity, and LOVE. Such is HOME... I feel so blessed to be here, at this time and place with you. Peace, my sisters and brothers, fathers and mothers, tanzen P.S. Hey, Brett, what flavor of Unix are you using? I type this message on a Linux box, v1.2.13, getting ready to go to 2.0.xx. ------------------------------ From: Frank Gaude Date: Tue, 25 Jun 1996 14:28:25 -0700 Subject: Re: Spirituality and Significant Others Keeper of the Dragon Flagon wrote: > > >He sounds like a very insecure and controlling man. Keep an eye on your > >friend, she may eventually need your help. > > Oh, I am keeping an eye on her. We've been working on dancing and drumming > together lately (she whirls and dances while I drum), which she has found > to be very spiritually exhilarating. She knows next to nothing about the > Sufis, but she doesn't realize that she is quickly becoming a whirling > dervish! Brett, you have got one sense of humor... wait til I tell my Mevlevi friends how to become "turners"... of all the instruments, next to the human voice, the drum does the most "for" me... It is said that without a sense of humor there is no flame. And once your humor starts to wane, your flame does likewise. Let our flames be that of forrest fires! So good to see you alive again. Peace, tanzen ------------------------------ From: Frank Gaude Date: Tue, 25 Jun 1996 14:42:38 -0700 Subject: Re: Ghazels from the Divan of Hafiz: XIX RHMH@aol.com wrote: > > XIX > Had I but the power to dwell in thy presence, [...] > Ghazels from the Divan of Hafiz > Translated by Justin Huntly McCarthy > (From a typescript edition in the SIRS Archives, > originally transcribed by Murshid Wali Ali Chisti > from a copy at the San Francisco Public Library.) Thanks so much, Ramabai, for posting these pieces by Hafiz. They compliment those of Rumi's so well. And thanks to dear Wali Ali and Justin for the translations. Pass our regards to Tui next time you see him. Thanks again. Until we hug again... remember at the Fairfax Mosque? last year... yes, that was me... you are one hugger! Love, Harmony, and Beauty, down these lines, tanzen (mureed of Murshida Rabia Ana) ------------------------------ From: maarof@pc.jaring.my Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 08:46:30 +0800 Subject: Re: Hamka was a Sufi (was Re: Several Adams) On Wed, 26 Jun 1996, barzakh@idola.net.id wrote: >Bismillahirrahmanirrahim. > >Assalamu'alaykum to all of you, > >Dear Maarof, > [...] >I wonder how much is Hamka's influence to Moslems in Malaysia? >Can you explain more? > >Love to all. >Wassalamu'alaykum, >your brother, >Michael Roland > Waalaikumsalam Several of his novels were used as text books in Malaysian secondary schools. So generations of Malaysians are familiar with Hamka. Personally (thru reading of his books -- religious and non-religious books) i see Hamka as a blessed man, tolerant and very kind. I admire him a great deal. To me (and maybe i can say for the majority of Malaysian muslims) Hamka's influence as a scholar is his closeness to the ordinary people. His books are easy to understand, and he wrote for the people, and although he is a great scholar on Islam, he is more at home with the ordinary people. It's hard for me to call Hamka a sufi, because he is more than that. To me, Hamka is a special servant of God. salam maarof ------------------------------ End of tariqas-digest V1 #31 ****************************