From tariqas-digest-approval@europe.std.com Sun Jul 7 07:24:26 1996 Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 00:24:41 -0400 (EDT) From: tariqas-digest-approval@europe.std.com Reply-To: tariqas-digest@world.std.com To: tariqas-digest@world.std.com Subject: tariqas-digest V1 #34 tariqas-digest Friday, 28 June 1996 Volume 01 : Number 034 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: maarof@pc.jaring.my Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 17:06:27 +0800 Subject: Re: Hamka was a Sufi (was Re: Several Adams) On Wed, 26 Jun 1996, jabriel@peoples.net (Jabreil Hanafi) wrote: > >> To me, Hamka is a special servant of God. >I have neither had the priveledge of knowing about Hamka before this thread >or reading him would someone be kind enough to share a bibliography of share >a few of titles. Thanks. Jabriel >> Dear Jabreil, please don't despair :) About Hamka (this is his pen name). As a young man he was a writer of novels (some said romantic novels). I would put his novels as average compared to the humanistic epics of Indonesian literary heavyweight, Pramoedya. I remembered one of his novel "Di Bawah Lindungan Kaabah" (In the shadow of the Kaabah) made into Indonesian film. Hamka's famous other novel is "Tenggelamnya Kapal Van Der Wick" - -- I don't remember its exact titles (in English it would be "The sinking of the Van Der Wick". I'm not sure whether any of his books has been translated into English.. maybe these two are. He also wrote a few popular Islamic books, and the one that stuck to mind is his book on general sufism (some laughed at his effort, which in a way telling Hamka, he did not know what sufism really is). However, his 8,000+ pages of _Tafsir Al-Azhar_ on the Quran is highly exclaimed by his friends and enemies. As a muslim from this part of the world, i'm proud to say at last we have a great tafsir of the Quran from the viewpoint of South-East Asia. In my heart, i'm still waiting tafsir of the Quran from the heart of Africa, and tafsir from the hearts of the West (Europe and America) and insha-Allah from the rest of the hearts of all cultures of the world (big or small). a few trivia about Hamka: his full name: Syaikh Abdulmalik bin Abdulkarim Amrullah born: 1909 died: 196? Father: Abdulkarim Amrullah Teacher: Ahmat Rasyit Sutan Manshur Wife (or Hamka's lovingly referred to his other body): Siti Raham binti Endah Sutan Mother: Syafiyah binti Bagindo Nan Batuah. well, this views are written by a malaysian. Maybe our Indonesian brothers in the list can add much more. Salam maarof ------------------------------ From: Giles Davidson Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 21:50:39 GMT Subject: Re: Frithjof Schuon and Shaykh Alawi Abdul-Qadir's own claim's to sheikhdom (to coin a phrase) are highly suspect. While he was Sh Habib's muqaddam he appeared to do good work, after his sheikh's death he claimed to be a sheikh himself. I have met numerous ex-followers and many of them have been marked by their experience with him. He now calls his group the Marabitoun. This group have fallen off the way and like many other such groups seize on simplistic worldly explanations of the world's ills and seize on nostrums to set it to rights - in their case an obsession with the monetary system - instead of seeking primarily spiritual solutions. - -- Giles Davidson ------------------------------ From: Frank Gaude Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 06:32:21 -0700 Subject: Thursday's Rumi I'VE COME AGAIN to break the teeth and claws of this man-eating monster we call life i've come again to puncture the glory of the cosmos who mercilessly destroys humans i am the falcon hunting down the birds of black omen before their flights i gave my word at the outset to give my life with no qualms i pray to the Lord to break my back before i break my word how do you dare to let someone like me intoxicated with love enter your house you must know better if i enter i'll break all this and destroy all that if the sheriff arrives i'll throw the wine in his face if your gatekeeper pulls my hand i'll break his arm if the heavens don't go round to my heart's desire i'll crush its wheels and pull out its roots you have set up a colorful table calling it life and asked me to your feast but punish me if i enjoy myself what tyranny is this ghazal number 1375, translated March 17, 1991, by Nader Khalili. tanzen ------------------------------ From: Oudghiri Houria Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 10:06:16 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Today, A Hard Day Salam, I am sure God is with you. Be patient, all will leave! With my love, Houria. > From tariqas-approval@europe.std.com Wed Jun 26 22:24:05 1996 > X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f > X-Sender: Well333@turbonet.com (Unverified) > X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 > Mime-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type> : > text/plain> ; > charset="us-ascii"> > To: tariqas@world.std.com > From: Well333@turbonet.com (Jacquie Weller) > Subject: Today, A Hard Day > Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 19:16:52 +0100 > Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com > Reply-To: tariqas@europe.std.com > Content-Length: 582 > > Today I struggle, my feelings intense > The oversensitiveness > The things that bring no peace > How fragile is the false self > The up and down feelings > If only I could wake up and > And all the pain would die... > I didn't want my best friend to leave > The man I would marry. > I didn't want my daughter's > husband to die. > I didn't want so many things. > Today was a difficult day > Love turns inside like sawdust. > Bad memories come up > When I think they are forgotten. > Wake up O soul > All that you thought, felt, said > Is only one act of a play. > It is a self-deluded dream. > Wake up. > Kaffea Lalla > > > > > > ------------------------------ From: CWoodsong@aol.com Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 10:10:41 -0400 Subject: Re: Nonviolent communication Hi, Hamza! >It uses a paradigm of "giraffe" communication to stand for communication >others feel comfortable accepting, and "jackal" communication for >communication others are uncomfortable accepting. The goal is to train one >to think before speaking and to say exactly what is going on inside oneself >without evaluating or invalidating the other speaker or his/her mental >processes, emotions, or perceptions. Sounds simple; in practice, it can be >exasperatingly difficult. Some examples may help: Hey, coool stuff! It reminds me of another 'system' called /Parent Effectiveness Training/ PET, there is also TET (for teachers). It's almost deceptively simple, but so effective! touchy/feely/hottubs/candles/incense... in the land of fruit and nutz! I /love/ it! :) <> love, love, love! carol ------------------------------ From: CWoodsong@aol.com Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 10:32:16 -0400 Subject: Beaten by the waves Beaten by the waves laid low by the hard winds: O Murshid I take refuge in You! In the west the storm growls the clouds pile up in masses, my battered boat trembles, it's masts are broken: O Murshid I take refuge in You! The waves onrushing crush the deck; all that I treasured like precious gems has gone adrift: O Murshid I take refuge in You! -- anonymous ------------------------------ From: ASHA101@aol.com Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 11:31:07 -0400 Subject: Re: Nonviolent communication >>>My apologies if anybody thinks this is touchy-feely California hottub-and-candles-and-incense drivel. Hamza<<< as we have an international community here i would be interested in how those non-Californian, i.e. non American participants relate to this idea of nonviolnt communication. On the one hand it seems as if this sort of communication (debate /discussion) is, for Americans, assumed to be a sort of self evident truth and it seems to be the accepted self evident truth (in this case well stated by your paper) on the internet as well. In other parts of the world it may not seem to be so. I am specifically addressing the tone that is sometimes contained in the voice of some speaking from an Islamic point of view. I have allways wondered whether those who speak in what would be described by your paper as extreemely "Jackel" in the name of an Islamic perpespective are in fact as out of the ideal and the norm as those from the Western perspective who would speak in a similar tone. P.S., this topic, in a round about sort of way, was discussed on another sufic forum bringing up the question of wether there are styles of debate and discussion that are adopted by various mystical orders, (and what might these be!) Maarof, are you out there? You work for a newspaper in Indonesia, you must have a rather authoritative idea abuot these speaking styles! It would be a help to know where people are comming from when they do this in a very blatant form. If you see it from a Westerner, then you can be assured that it means that they are not striking the ideal in Western communication, perhaps all to often it is the norm, and we all have much to learn, but the paper that Hamza mentions strikes the note of the underlying ideal in Western culture - though, I agree it might not allways seems so. So, ultimately, my question revolves around some of these differences in culture because we internet friends (just common people mostly) are, most of all, learning to speak with each other. It is important, and of the deepest sufi tradition to share our ideals in this effort to be as friends. It is what some sufis call "making god a reality" do you know that saying "Make God a reality and He will make you the truth". love, Asha ------------------------------ From: Jawad Qureshi Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 11:17:30 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: Frithjof Schuon and Shaykh Alawi Salam, > He now calls his group the Marabitoun. This group have fallen off the way > and like many other such groups seize on simplistic worldly explanations of > the world's ills and seize on nostrums to set it to rights - in their case an > obsession with the monetary system - instead of seeking primarily spiritual > solutions. > -- > Giles Davidson > No offense, but your comments on his view are quite frankly, way too simple. That is definitely NOT the summary of the Shaykh's work that I would give, and I say this as a non-follower. Have you not read his For the Coming Man? Letter to an African Muslim? Jihad: a Groundplan? The Sign of the Sword? Kufr: and Islamic Critique? The Root Islamic Education? Yes, he does emphasise the monetary system and all of it's evils, and at the same time he emphasizes Muslims adopting Kafir methodolgy to get to the true Islam, which is pretty much the theme throughout all of the above mentioned books. Also, read some of the works of other members of the Murabitun: read Aisha Bewley's translation of Qadi Iyad's Shifa, and al-Muwatta. Read Ahmed Thompson's books: Jesus: A Prophet of Islam, and Dajjal (the latter being one of the best books to read in English). These are all members of Murabitun, and Shaykh Abdal Qadir allows them to write/translate and what not. I do agree with you though, that there is too much emphasis on the monetary system, but he has to be appreciated for what he is worth. Sidi Hamza Yousef, Sidi Mohammad Shareef, and many others were at one time with the Murabitun, but they left (for whatever reasons, I don't know), and if anyone hears a lecture from one of these people, they will CLEARLY see the VAST influence that Shaykh Abdal Qadir had (and still has) on their thinking. Wa salam, Jawad. ____________________ "The Enduring One! You are the Enduring One!" The most helpless slave of al-Rahman al-Ghufoor al-Wudood: Jawad Anwar ibn Muhammad Anwar al-Qureshi ------------------------------ From: AMBER K WILLIAMS <102064.3531@compuserve.com> Date: 27 Jun 96 11:55:36 EDT Subject: Re: Spirituality and Significant Others Dear Carol Possibly one of the problems is that during this discussion, it is assumed that there is one "right" or "better" way to have relationships or to not have them. Maybe we need to be a little more accepting of all the variations without putting one above the other.:) Also, I am glad that it was mentioned that we don't have relationships within a vaccum but with family including children and friends, work surrounding us. Is it only our own so-called spiritual growth that we need to be concerned about? Paradoxically, spiritual growth often is described as love and concern for others! Just another ambivilent thought-I have many. Anyway, as I look at the world I see alot of ordinary people leading beautiful and spiritual lifes. Love and Care go by many names. Blessings Iram ------------------------------ From: CWoodsong@aol.com Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 13:50:46 -0400 Subject: Re: Spirituality and Significant Others hello, dear Iram! >Possibly one of the problems is that during this discussion, it is >assumed that there is one "right" or "better" way to have relationships Perhaps i assume that there is an assumption<> that there is 'one way'. Like i said.... i do get defensive about this subject. I am trying to look beyond this... I've been told i'm 'wrong' about this many times... but from where i am sitting... this is what i see. I think i can begin to see where others are on this... and i think it is a Beautiful place to be. But, from /my/ perspective, it's different. I'm not sure if i delude myself, or if i really do live what i /think/ i do. Does this make any sense? Can you tell me what i'm /not/ seeing? I'm not sure if i am communicating what i want to communicate here. Other perspectives are simply that.. other ways of seeing... no one is 'better' or 'worse'... only different. >or to not have them. Maybe we need to be a little more accepting of all >the variations without putting one above the other.:) Oh, absolutely! There is no one 'right' way... and maybe that's what makes me defensive? :) I'm not trying to 'defend' my way of seeing as the 'right way'... but, i guess i am trying to 'defend' my way of seeing as 'another way'. <> >Also, I am glad that it was mentioned that we don't have relationships >within a vaccum but with family including children and friends, work >surrounding us. Is it only our own so-called spiritual growth that we >need to be concerned about? Paradoxically, spiritual growth often is >described as love and concern for others! Just another ambivilent >thought-I have many. Thank you for your questions, dear one! Please feel free to share with me... i don't usually get defensive when people tell me i'm not seeing clearly! :) And i appreciate it so much when i am forced to look more deeply into what it is i do believe/think/feel/know. >Anyway, as I look at the world I see alot of ordinary people leading >beautiful and spiritual lifes. Love and Care go by many names. Yes! We are all saints and we are all sinners... all looking for the Way Home! Thank you, Iram! With your permission... <> love, carol ------------------------------ From: Well333@turbonet.com (Jacquie Weller) Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 10:51:50 +0100 Subject: A Poem for Nickie As we said Goodby, my Son, You said Hello! It was appropriate that your body was buried In the Potlatch earth, where you as a boy Ran free throught the fields. The love-does circled around your grave sight To honor you Rod, as you have honored God and your family. The hill of goldyellow met us at the entrance As if to say We welcome you into the earth Your body will be well tended to. The evening sky was painted with the colors of God And Rod was the Artist saying Hellow my Darling Wife, I am never far away... See my Spirit is free in the Heavens Above Look up and see my heart looking at you My lovely wife. The church where we are married is near my grave I am well pleased with what you have done. So sing a song of harmony and peace and rest... As God will heal my family. Kaffea Lalla ------------------------------ From: Frank Gaude Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 12:35:07 -0700 Subject: Re: Spirituality and Significant Others CWoodsong@aol.com wrote: [...] > Commitment without love is nothing... and < perhaps also the reverse > is true? -- Love without commitment is nothing? Love is commitment, first to yourself, then Self, then your ideal, then Ideal, then to God. By the time you get to "God" you have become... you ARE. > What exactly then IS commitment? Could it be, maybe, in some ways, a crutch? You can look at words anyway you wish... it is what you do from the beliefs you have that count. Pure breath, pure thoughts, pure words, pure deeds. Your truth becomes your good. > Do most people fear being "alone"?... or lonely? or in need in so many other > ways? We fear because we sense separation from our Source... we willed the separation and now we are not of full joy, of full bliss. But if we try, try, try, we will find the path home to Source. By working together, in community, we find the way quicker. We talk tall, very tall, when we bow low to all of creation! > /My/ fear is this: If i commit to /one/ other, i may not be available for > whatever my commitment to the One involves. Dear one, the only commitment one can make is to self, knowing that Self is the goal. Such commitmemt frees you to fly to the aid of those who truly ask for your help. > A good friend of mine describes > me as the wind... and i kinda like that. :) We are the wind and I pray that we quickly pass into the hand of the Wind! > I feel as though i am available > where i am needed.... in many places, for many people... Freedom... or > delusion? :) dunno. I don't know either. > This must be something i have to work on... i think i'm getting defensive! You, defensive, never! Here, sit down, get out of the sun, have another juice. Get really intoxicated, sufi style, Omar Khayaam style. > :)(: Interesting discussion... (this is all linked of course to my other > questions... wow, what a wonderful place this is! :) You help make it so! Now tell us again, What is it you seek? tanzen ------------------------------ From: Ellen L Price Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 13:03:42 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: Going on Holiday Dear Brothers & Sisters, I'm signing off tariqas for a while. I'm going on a holiday and then to the Edith Wallace Workshop. Ellen ------------------------------ From: Ellen L Price Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 13:08:20 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: Spirituality and Significant Others On Thu, 27 Jun 1996 CWoodsong@aol.com wrote: > Hi Ellen and friends! :) > > >In the below mentioned book the author mentions that while women may also > >have this phobia, their urge to have children helps them to overcome > >their commitment anxieties. Also women have need for protection and > >financial security which will induce them to make commitments and > >override their fears. > > hmm... transferring one fear for another? > > What if we look at 'commitment' in a different light... what about the > larger commitment to extended family, and community? Does commitment involve > one man and one woman staying together 'no matter what', or can it also have > something to do with seeking to see the higher good for all concerned, and > maybe in a larger sense?-- to love, really love another... and want what is > truly best with no thought of self... > > Commitment without love is nothing... and < perhaps also the reverse > is true? -- Love without commitment is nothing? > > What exactly then IS commitment? Could it be, maybe, in some ways, a crutch? > Do most people fear being "alone"?... or lonely? or in need in so many other > ways? > /My/ fear is this: If i commit to /one/ other, i may not be available for > whatever my commitment to the One involves. A good friend of mine describes > me as the wind... and i kinda like that. :) I feel as though i am available > where i am needed.... in many places, for many people... Freedom... or > delusion? :) dunno. > > This must be something i have to work on... i think i'm getting defensive! > :)(: Interesting discussion... (this is all linked of course to my other > questions... wow, what a wonderful place this is! :) > > love to all! > carol Those who are afraid of commitment are also reluctant to commit to anything, i.e. making a choice about which T.V. to buy; social engaugements; they are not available for others. Ellen ------------------------------ From: Keeper of the Dragon Flagon Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 16:11:23 Subject: Re: Spirituality and Significant Others >Brett, you have got one sense of humor... wait til I tell my Mevlevi friends >how to become "turners"... of all the instruments, next to the human voice, >the drum does the most "for" me... I can't go a single day without playing the drum. It is the best thing after a grueling day at work. But my guitars are getting jealous... >It is said that without a sense of humor there is no flame. And once your >humor starts to wane, your flame does likewise. Let our flames be that of >forrest fires! My flame is like the songs given off by the vast roaring flames in the hearts of stars! >So good to see you alive again. Quite alive, and loving it and everything! - --------------------------------------- Brett W. McCoy "Unix was never designed to keep Istvan Dragosani people from doing stupid things, istvan@gnn.com because that policy would also keep Disciple of the Eastern Mysteries them from doing clever things." of both Love and War -- Doug Gwyn ------------------------------ From: olh@hyperback.com (Bob Olhsson) Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 17:38:32 -0700 Subject: Re: relationships At 11:50 PM 6/26/96, Jabreil Hanafi wrote: > I am staying at a friend's >house temporarily. The dynamic is quite interesting and what is present >here are several people who are all as far as I can see in seemingly >different spiritual paths. But there is a commitment to an other, and there >is commitment to the family. Both of those commitments is what is generally missing in one party or the other in relationships that come apart. We confuse wanting such a commitment and then making a "deal" for one with somebody else hungry for committment with actually MAKING a commitment to the other AND to the family. In the intoxication of new love it's impossible to tell the difference. My answer (finally) has been to let time test the nature of a relationship before making a commitment. Anybody can be "committed" during the good times. It's the hard times that seperates things out. I'm on my third marriage and only now realize that there was never much real commitment in the first two other than to a mutual satisfaction "deal." I learned a lot from my first two marriages but most of all, I gained the experience to really appreciate my current one. Bob Bob Olhsson Audio |O tongue, thou art a treasure without end. And, Box 555,Novato CA 94948 |O tongue, thou art also a disease without remedy. 415.457.2620 | 415.456.1496 FAX | == Jelal'uddin Rumi == ------------------------------ From: Well333@turbonet.com (Jacquie Weller) Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 21:09:58 +0100 Subject: Re: Relationships Now at 53, relationships look a lot different than in my twenties, thirties,and so forth. After the end of a 24 year marriage that I was fully commited to, It seemed that I did not know the first thing about living alone. I was use to people telling me what they want or expected and I did not know me. Then I had another relationship, and It was a different kind of love, one that helped me know I could trust a man, and not be abused, and how I grew in this relationship, and then He died, and then I had more to learn. I have learned that the only permanent relationship is God, and My beloved teaches me who I really am...Not the false self or masks I wear while playing a part in a play... Here I unfold again, and I gain more than any of the losses by living this relationship, the two becoming one. It takes time, because I have played the game of duality most of my life, but now I am tasting the difference. Oh what a differnce to know God within and then without. I seek no other relationship, at this time, maybe not ever again. But every face is His/Her face and where ever I am is home. Kaffea lalla. ------------------------------ From: jabriel@peoples.net (Jabreil Hanafi) Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 23:24:54 -0500 Subject: Re: relationships >asalaam-u-aleikum>>Does this mean you're accusing me of being an idiot, passive aggressive,>stinking, all or none of the above? Just curious.> >Lily Hi Lily, I think that with all the enemies I have ever had in my life the only one who ever tried to kill me was me. It seems to me that the mind is filled with barbs, filled with projections, and holds on to points of view which do not further peace and to the conbtrary herald misery. I think that is especialy true when one lives in terror and thus needs to control through arrogance and a pretense to know it all. All of that however is the mask. Why? Because when I look again at myself I experience something else besides this mind, this persona. There is a potential. May the potential that exists on the tespas of ninety nione beads be your and my treause and may we use it to inspire one another rather than extend red herrings, barbs and the like. May we release our point of view so that we can see and hear far and wide. And may we communicate to the universe the treasure we experience in prayer rather then the dogma which keeps us seperated. I love you my Friend, and further more you will always be in my heart. There henceforth will not be a year in my life where i do not fondly remeber Tariqas. And you will be one of the characters on the stage who I will keep in my prayers. Jabriel - ----------------------------------------- Jabriel Hanafi Pivotal Point Dynamics ------------------------------ End of tariqas-digest V1 #34 ****************************