From tariqas-digest-approval@europe.std.com Sun Jul 7 07:24:40 1996 Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 14:54:39 -0400 (EDT) From: tariqas-digest-approval@europe.std.com Reply-To: tariqas-digest@world.std.com To: tariqas-digest@world.std.com Subject: tariqas-digest V1 #35 tariqas-digest Friday, 28 June 1996 Volume 01 : Number 035 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: jabriel@peoples.net (Jabreil Hanafi) Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 23:24:58 -0500 Subject: Re: Today, A Hard Day Salam Kaffea Lalla, I so kiss your tears and your longing. I so repect your grief and your pain. I wish for you that you give yourself all the time you need to feel. And I love the way you recieve support from everyone here who clearly loves you so my friend. God Bless you. Jabriel >> >> >> >> >> >> > > - ----------------------------------------- Jabriel Hanafi Pivotal Point Dynamics ------------------------------ From: Well333@turbonet.com (Jacquie Weller) Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 22:19:46 +0100 Subject: Re: Today, A Hard Day Salam Kaffea Lalla, I so kiss your tears and your longing. I so repect your grief and your pain. I wish for you that you give yourself all the time you need to feel. And I love the way you recieve support from everyone here who clearly loves you so my friend. God Bless you. Jabriel .......... Thankyou Jabriel, and God Bless you too. Love Kaffea Lalla. ------------------------------ From: CWoodsong@aol.com Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 01:21:55 -0400 Subject: Re: Going on Holiday > I'm signing off tariqas for a while. I'm going on a holiday and then >to the Edith Wallace Workshop. I will miss you, Ellen! You /always/ make me think! er... umm... maybe actually to get /past/ thinking! :)(: You are a blessing! Have a great time! love, wood (very glad i don't have to decide what kind of tv to buy! :) song ------------------------------ From: Lilyan Kay Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 22:44:07 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: relationships asalaam-u-aleikum Thank you Jabreil, I still would like an answer to my question, if you don't mind. Lily On Thu, 27 Jun 1996, Jabreil Hanafi wrote: > >asalaam-u-aleikum>>Does this mean you're accusing me of being an idiot, > passive aggressive,>stinking, all or none of the above? Just curious.> > >Lily > Hi Lily, I think that with all the enemies I have ever had in my life the > only one who ever tried to kill me was me. It seems to me that the mind is > filled with barbs, filled with projections, and holds on to points of view > which do not further peace and to the conbtrary herald misery. > > I think that is especialy true when one lives in terror and thus needs to > control through arrogance and a pretense to know it all. All of that > however is the mask. Why? Because when I look again at myself I experience > something else besides this mind, this persona. There is a potential. May > the potential that exists on the tespas of ninety nione beads be your and my > treause and may we use it to inspire one another rather than extend red > herrings, barbs and the like. May we release our point of view so that we > can see and hear far and wide. And may we communicate to the universe the > treasure we experience in prayer rather then the dogma which keeps us > seperated. I love you my Friend, and further more you will always be in my > heart. There henceforth will not be a year in my life where i do not fondly > remeber Tariqas. And you will be one of the characters on the stage who I > will keep in my prayers. Jabriel > ----------------------------------------- > Jabriel Hanafi > Pivotal Point Dynamics > > > ------------------------------ From: jabriel@peoples.net (Jabreil Hanafi) Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 08:54:30 -0500 Subject: Re: relationships asalaam-u-aleikum>Does this mean you're accusing me of being an idiot, >> passive aggressive,>stinking, all or none of the above? Just curious.> >> >Lily Top of The Morning to You Lily. I am not accusing you of anything. I am simply saying that "You are an argument waiting to happen". Now the You I am speaking of has nothiung to-do with You. It is an act which I percieve running you. It is the I demanding to stick to a point of view to live out out of "an us against them" context. It is the pretense of not understanding when the fact is that you are extremely intuitive. It is the dominant bully who forever out of sheer terror is functioning on a basis called I'll get you before you get me. And my Darling all we are is a reflection of one another. Therefore what right does an imbecile like myself have to say these sorts of things to you. None at all. So I ask for your forgiveness. I say Ataghfellah (forgive the spelling) and I request that we inspire rather then act rightous and function as killers, which by the way from time to time I think you do. Jabriel - ----------------------------------------- Jabriel Hanafi Pivotal Point Dynamics ------------------------------ From: CWoodsong@aol.com Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 10:56:03 -0400 Subject: Re: relationships Jabriel, >And my Darling all we are is a reflection of one another. When i see what i don't like... it doesn't make me 'wrong' or 'bad'... it means i am imperfect. I wish to see my Perfection... and that is the reason i look into /your/ Beautiful eyes, my friend! love, carol ------------------------------ From: Frank Gaude Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 07:50:45 -0700 Subject: Re: Spirituality and Significant Others Hello, everybody! Keeper of the Dragon Flagon wrote: > > >Brett, you have got one sense of humor... wait til I tell my Mevlevi friends > >how to become "turners"... of all the instruments, next to the human voice, > >the drum does the most "for" me... > > I can't go a single day without playing the drum. It is the best thing after > a grueling day at work. But my guitars are getting jealous... You know there was a time when I could "take or leave" drums, but a few years back, at a sufi camp, there was a girl, Victoria, who was a teacher of Africian dance and druming and the meaning of it all. Well, after understanding some of the movements and doing them, much of which I had seen in many a Hollywood movie, I got "turned on". The beauty of the meaning of the hand and rest-of-body language to the beat of the drum was a revelation, seemingly one I will never forget, "in the bones" now. It was a lesson that intuitive knowledge exists in all cultures and that this knowledge is truly the only one worth knowing, for it comes from the "Book of Nature". > >It is said that without a sense of humor there is no flame. And once your > >humor starts to wane, your flame does likewise. Let our flames be that of > >forrest fires! > > My flame is like the songs given off by the vast roaring flames in the hearts > of stars! Yes, you are seen in that "light". Alhamdu'lillah! > >So good to see you alive again. > > Quite alive, and loving it and everything! Glad you are here to share with us your wisdom... Peace, tanzen ------------------------------ From: Well333@turbonet.com (Jacquie Weller) Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 08:10:03 +0100 Subject: Re: relationships Jabriel said: And my Darling all we are is a reflection of one another. Therefore what right does an imbecile like myself have to say these sorts of things to you. None at all. So I ask for your forgiveness. I say Ataghfellah (forgive the spelling) and I request that we inspire rather then act rightous and function as killers, which by the way from time to time I think you do. Jabriel - ----------------------------------------- Dear Jabriel and Lilly. There is a cord of Love between us. Nothing can separate us from our Beloved. Peace, Goodwill, Compassion to you both. Send it through the energy of the heart. Forgiveness is a cool refreshing purifying rain. Wash away yesterdays. Begin today walking toward the one in harmony, beauty, love. Sometimes the cause we stand for gets in the way of our single unity of One Heart. Each has a language for their beloved. Rumi said something like the way one worships may seem foolish to you, but to God it is Worship, sweet unadulterated simple language of one kneeling down and kissing the ground. When one thinks God has shoes to lace, let him think that...It is the heart that recognizes another heart. One person has a rosary, another a flute, another drums, another poetry. Let us each honor our Beloved in our own way, and not be a carbon copy or a tape recorder of something learned. Tolerance, Compassion, Simplicity, Joy...None of this easy. Love Kaffea Lalla ------------------------------ From: Well333@turbonet.com (Jacquie Weller) Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 08:32:24 +0100 Subject: Melevi Could someone tell a little about the Melevi Order. Interested kaffea lalla. ------------------------------ From: AMBER K WILLIAMS <102064.3531@CompuServe.COM> Date: 28 Jun 96 11:42:01 EDT Subject: Re: relationships Hi, i like the things both Jabriel and Lily write--I am glad this is hopefully ending-the flaming or begginning too-:) Does anyone remember what started this all--I don't. Love and Peaceeeee Iram ------------------------------ From: Keeper of the Dragon Flagon Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 11:24:07 Subject: Re: sufi! >Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 09:37:11 -0400 >From: CWoodsong@aol.com >why sufi? >what is it about this /particular/ path that inspires, or leads you? My original path was something akin to Taoism, mixed with a bit of neo-paganism and western alchemy. As my explorations delved deeper and deeper and I began to form personal meta-myths between different paths, I came upon the wisdom of the Sufis one day, and, like my initial venture into Taoism, I was astounded that there had been a group of people in the past who believed as I do (i.e., I didn't conform my path to the Sufis, but recognized them as spiritual brothers walking along the same roads). >what is it about this particular wisdom passed from one to another that is >so important to you? ... was there ever any doubt as to your path? Is there >any other Way that you might be satisfied with? I have always had a deep fascination with the Middle East to begin with, since I was a child. As for other 'Ways', they are all one and the same, all poetic veils of the Truth, whether it comes from a Christian, a pagan, or even an atheist. >Is the 'new age' the time for sharing... or has this always been? I prefer the term 'New Aeon'. In this century, and this century alone, has the rational and irrational once more become joined, as even the sciences now are affirming Truths that men knew in their hearts countless centuries ago. >Is Sufism simply another 'ism', another veil between 'me' and that which is >Real? Why is initiation necessary? Your first question is twofold, and perhaps the two sections do not necessarily belong together. The 'ism' syndrome is a malady of Western thought, with the emphasis on over-categorization of thoughts, concepts and people. However, as I mentioned before, all Ways are veils of the Truth, hidden in symbols, archetypes and poetry. Why is initiation necessary? Well, it isn't, actually. But initiation should not just be taken for its face value. It is rooted in symbols and archetypes, reflecting the inner changes of the initiate. In some cases, such as in Mystery Traditions, the rites of the initiation are symbolic of, say, the death and resurrection of a Godform, and the initiate undergoes this transformation internally to ultimate unity with his chosen godform. Similarly, other initiatory rites follow similar ideas, especially when one uses the concept in conjunction with Abramelin the Mage who spoke of certain mystical occupations as a means of attaining 'conversation with your Holy Guardian Angel." - --------------------------------------- Brett W. McCoy "Unix was never designed to keep Istvan Dragosani people from doing stupid things, istvan@gnn.com because that policy would also keep Disciple of the Eastern Mysteries them from doing clever things." of both Love and War -- Doug Gwyn ------------------------------ From: Lilyan Kay Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 09:10:59 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: relationships wa aleikum asalaam Jabreil, all I have to say is that you are way out of line. If something I said offended you in some way, I would expect you to let me know in a civil manner. I expect no less from my 8 year old son. Please be assured that the evil motives you are attributing to me are 100% your own projection, and I - like Mohja who addressed this with you earlier - would appreciate it if you would own them instead of trying to dump them on me. If anything I have said offended you or anyone else I am deeply sorry. I am completely floored by this whole exchange, having had zero intention or awareness of doing so. Lily On Fri, 28 Jun 1996, Jabreil Hanafi wrote: > asalaam-u-aleikum>Does this mean you're accusing me of being an idiot, > >> passive aggressive,>stinking, all or none of the above? Just curious.> > >> >Lily > Top of The Morning to You Lily. I am not accusing you of anything. I am > simply saying that "You are an argument waiting to happen". Now the You I > am speaking of has nothiung to-do with You. It is an act which I percieve > running you. It is the I demanding to stick to a point of view to live out > out of "an us against them" context. It is the pretense of not > understanding when the fact is that you are extremely intuitive. It is the > dominant bully who forever out of sheer terror is functioning on a basis > called I'll get you before you get me. > > And my Darling all we are is a reflection of one another. Therefore what > right does an imbecile like myself have to say these sorts of things to you. > None at all. So I ask for your forgiveness. I say Ataghfellah (forgive the > spelling) and I request that we inspire rather then act rightous and > function as killers, which by the way from time to time I think you do. > Jabriel > ----------------------------------------- > Jabriel Hanafi > Pivotal Point Dynamics > > > ------------------------------ From: Lilyan Kay Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 09:17:45 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: relationships asalaam-u-aleikum Yes, it started when I wrote something which I had thought was completely benign about gender approaches to relationships, and he said what I had written was idiocy, stunk, and something else I don't remember. Lily On 28 Jun 1996, AMBER K WILLIAMS wrote: > Hi, > > i like the things both Jabriel and Lily write--I am glad this is > hopefully ending-the flaming or begginning too-:) Does anyone remember > what started this all--I don't. > > Love and Peaceeeee > > Iram > > ------------------------------ From: informe@best.com Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 09:15:33 -0700 Subject: Judging (was: relationships) >asalaam-u-aleikum>Does this mean you're accusing me of being an idiot, >>> passive aggressive,>stinking, all or none of the above? Just curious.> >>> >Lily >Top of The Morning to You Lily. I am not accusing you of anything. I am >simply saying that "You are an argument waiting to happen". Now the You I >am speaking of has nothiung to-do with You. It is an act which I percieve >running you. It is the I demanding to stick to a point of view to live out >out of "an us against them" context. It is the pretense of not >understanding when the fact is that you are extremely intuitive. It is the >dominant bully who forever out of sheer terror is functioning on a basis >called I'll get you before you get me. How about, "When you do X it reminds me of Y and I feel Z"? Is your post a report on your own feelings, or do you truly want to deliver such a judgement? One of the heartaches of abusive judgers is that they often automate their torture by training their victims to "judge" themselves, then others. We have an opportunity to break the cycle, if we can stay awake. Astagfirullah, we all fall short of the Prophet's example. Alhamduillah, there is Mercy. Hamza ------------------------------ From: Well333@turbonet.com (Jacquie Weller) Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 09:22:47 +0100 Subject: Re: relationships >Hi, > >i like the things both Jabriel and Lily write--I am glad this is >hopefully ending-the flaming or begginning too-:) Does anyone remember >what started this all--I don't. > >Love and Peaceeeee > >Iram > >------- No, I don't know either. But I too like the things both Jabriel and Lily write. Love and Peaceeee too. Kaffea lalla. ------------------------------ From: Keeper of the Dragon Flagon Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 12:10:01 Subject: Re: Spirituality and Significant Others >Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 07:50:45 -0700 >From: Frank Gaude >You know there was a time when I could "take or leave" drums, but a few > years >back, at a sufi camp, there was a girl, Victoria, who was a teacher of > Africian >dance and druming and the meaning of it all. Well, after understanding some > of >the movements and doing them, much of which I had seen in many a Hollywood > movie, >I got "turned on". I got into drumming last year, at the Society for Creative Anachronism's Pennsic War, when I bought a dumbek and took some lessons. It's taken off quite a bit since then, especialyl since I have friends who belly-dance also. >The beauty of the meaning of the hand and rest-of-body language to the beat > of >the drum was a revelation, seemingly one I will never forget, "in the > bones" now. >It was a lesson that intuitive knowledge exists in all cultures and that > this >knowledge is truly the only one worth knowing, for it comes from the "Book > of >Nature". I have found, in mental states of spiritual exaltation, that my body moves involuntary... I have to move around, so I do some whirling or sometimes it evolves into Qi Gong/Tai Qi movements. - --------------------------------------- Brett W. McCoy "Unix was never designed to keep Istvan Dragosani people from doing stupid things, istvan@gnn.com because that policy would also keep Disciple of the Eastern Mysteries them from doing clever things." of both Love and War -- Doug Gwyn ------------------------------ From: informe@best.com Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 09:25:03 -0700 Subject: Sufi chist? Sufi sufist. But since the question was asked, and there has been so much poetry posted here, I thought I would add an idea about what sufis and sufism are/is, by way of a song from Shaykh Peter Murphy. It's a look at the more painful aspects of the path, contrasted to the dancing and the light. My apologies to anybody offended by this appearing here. I find you in the morning After dreams of distant signs You pour yourself over me Like the sun through the blind You get me up and get me out Keep me walking, but never shout "Hold the secret close," I hear you say You know the way it goes about It takes you in and spits you out It spits you out if you desire To conquer it or feel you're higher To follow it you must be clean With mistakes that you do mean Move the heart, switch the pace Look for what seems out of place Oh, cuts you up... Oh, cuts you up... One and on it goes Calling like a distant wind But through the zero hour we'll walk We'll cut the thick and break the thin No sound to break, no moment clear When all the doubts are crystal clear Crashing hard into the secret wind You know the way it throws about Changing colors, spinning yarns You know the way, it leaves you dry It cuts you up and takes you high You know the way, it's painted gold Is it honey? Is it gold? You know the way it goes about It takes you in and spits you out.. Oh, cuts you up... Oh, cuts you up... Shaykh Peter Murphy Hamza ------------------------------ From: arsalaan fay Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 13:02:21 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Melevi Friend Do you mean Mevlevi? if so PLease see http://webcom.com/threshl This the Threshold Society in Vermont U.S. They are Mevlevi On Fri, 28 Jun 1996, Jacquie Weller wrote: > Could someone tell a little about the Melevi Order. Interested > kaffea lalla. > ------------------------------ From: Frank Gaude Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 09:34:34 -0700 Subject: Re: relationships Hello, everybody! Jacquie Weller wrote: > Dear Jabriel and Lilly. > There is a cord of Love between us. [...] > One person has a rosary, another a flute, > another drums, another poetry. Let us each honor our Beloved in our own > way, and not be a carbon copy or a tape recorder of something learned. Amin! For if it is not so, how would The Beloved get to know Self? And the differences between each of us are GREAT, and let those differences Be, for it makes no difference to Us, but it does to Absolute and its Will. Oh! Kaffea, you forgot "computer" in your list up there... though sometimes, the drum is jealous! Bless (pass out love to) you all. >From beauty comes harmony and from there we know love, are love. Peace, tanzen ------------------------------ From: maarof@pc.jaring.my Date: Sat, 29 Jun 1996 02:04:21 +0800 Subject: Re: Nonviolent communication Asha wrote: > Maarof, are you out there? You work for a newspaper in Indonesia, you must >have a rather authoritative idea abuot these speaking styles! It would be a >help to know where people are comming from when they do this in a very >blatant form. If you see it from a Westerner, then you can be assured that it >means that they are not striking the ideal in Western communication, perhaps >all to often it is the norm, and we all have much to learn, but the paper >that Hamza mentions strikes the note of the underlying ideal in Western >culture - though, I agree it might not allways seems so. So, ultimately, my >question revolves around some of these differences in culture because we >internet friends (just common people mostly) are, most of all, learning to >speak with each other. It is important, and of the deepest sufi tradition to >share our ideals in this effort to be as friends. It is what some sufis call >"making god a reality" do you know that saying "Make God a reality and He >will make you the truth". In the name of God, the Merciful, the Compassionate whose help we implore and in whom we trust, and with whom are the keys to our hearts. And God bless the best of His creatures, Muhammad, and all his family and companions. Salam to Asha and fellow travellers in this list. I acknowledge that only God has absolute authority on affairs of His creatures, including things which put humans above other creatures, namely speaking or communicating in languages. I acknowledge all languages as gift from God and only God judge how one uses one's language. salam your brother seeking the path maarof ------------------------------ From: CWoodsong@aol.com Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 14:55:24 -0400 Subject: Re: Spirituality and Significant Others Hello, tanzen. >You help make it so! we are all in this together, eh? :) < Now tell us again, What is it you seek? love! Thanks to all here for helping me get some clarity on lots of 'stuff'! I love you all! ever grateful... woodsong ------------------------------ End of tariqas-digest V1 #35 ****************************