From tariqas-digest-approval@europe.std.com Sun Jul 7 07:28:41 1996 Date: Sun, 30 Jun 1996 22:55:34 -0400 (EDT) From: tariqas-digest-approval@europe.std.com Reply-To: tariqas-digest@world.std.com To: tariqas-digest@world.std.com Subject: tariqas-digest V1 #40 tariqas-digest Sunday, 30 June 1996 Volume 01 : Number 040 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Frank Gaude Date: Sun, 30 Jun 1996 14:33:52 -0700 Subject: Re: relationships and a view of flaming ASHA101@aol.com wrote: > > Bob King wrote: > >>> but I also > think it can serve as an opportunity to transform one emotion (anger) into > another (admission of pain/hurt) into another (admission of caring), which > can be a doorway to hightening/deepening (AKA spiritual learning). What > do you think? This is not a defense of flaming, but rather a question > concerning how to interpret flaming. . .<<<< > I think that what I am saying is just exactly what you have said so simply. > This relationship between awakening and then enlightenment and mastery in the > world is a traditional sufi view. Pir Vilayat Inayat Khan stated "the > crowning enigma of the implications of the awakening attained 'beyond the > existential level' " (is) " when we face the critical turning point of real > life situations again, without losing sight of that transcendent awakening." > He quotes Ibn 'Arabi: "When one does not see anything other than God, the > void (khala) is impossible ... for such a being, a retreat (khalwa) is not > possible" > Asha ... Good stuff, guys! Thanks, tanzen ------------------------------ From: maarof@pc.jaring.my Date: Mon, 1 Jul 1996 05:50:21 +0800 Subject: Re:i It is not all sugar and light + Lets Really get personal On Sun, 30 Jun 1996, Simon Bryquer wrote: >Jabriel Hanafi wrote: >> >> >----- Forwarded message (jabriel@peoples.net (Jabreil Hanafi)) -----< > > >Salaams to one and all-------------- > >I will not quote what Mr.Hanafi wrote for I'm sure everyone >is quite familiar with it. > >All I want to say regarding his posts is that: >'Vanity of vanities, saith the Preacher, vanity of >vanities; all is vanity.' Hebrew Bible. Ecclesiastes 1:2 passim. > >Also George Elliot said: > >Vanity is as ill at ease under indifference as tenderness is >under a love which it cannot return. > >I believe what we have here is a semblance of Attar's infinitely >verbose Peacock (fantasizing mystic? dreams)combined with the >reality of the Duck. > >Mr.Hanafi I believe you have become deceived by your own (mystic) >performance. In the lingo of the street 'You can do the talk(though >for me it's more like rambling and in your responses to Lilyan-- >doubletalk)but can't do the walk. > >Mr.Hanafi if you're given to one of your long meandering replies, >don't bother, I've stopped reading most of your output awhile >back. > >Greetings to one and all > >Simon Bryquer > After reading this, I feel I need a break too :) Kaffea, coffee please... (Why is everyone suddenly shooting flaming arrows?) Salam Maarof e-mail: maarof@pc.jaring.my ------------------------------ From: CWoodsong@aol.com Date: Sun, 30 Jun 1996 18:14:14 -0400 Subject: sick yet? :) Gee.. i hope everyone is not sick of me yet! One time... a plea for everyone to pleeease stay... i feel as though i am at least somewhat responsible... i asked Jabriel to be straight with me... whatever else is going on, i don't know... but, i certainly don't mind straight talk.... Loosing the veils ain't easy! ... and that's why i'm here... to learn and to grow and to love... i don't want anything sugar coated! apologies for whatever i may have done to offend... and a plea to be made aware of my offense so i can 'fix it'! please! all my love, woodsong ------------------------------ From: Frank Gaude Date: Sun, 30 Jun 1996 15:15:26 -0700 Subject: Re: God's Omnicience & Omnipotence CWoodsong@aol.com wrote: > > What is this Great Mystery? > The Great Mysterious... > I am You... > and only through You can i see > the Beauty that is me. God, You are beautiful! This place is beautiful, this juice is my wine! I dare not try to match the unmatchable but use a few lines from another's work: 63 Misguided foes call me philosopher-- (,) God knows this is the one thing I am not. I am even less: in such a nest of sorrows I cannot tell you even who I am. 64 In drink this evening, as I passed the tavern, (,42) A fellow toper met me with a flask. Cried I: 'Old man, have you no awe of God?' "Come', he said, 'God is bountiful! Come, drink!' 65 Banish your crowding griefs with wine, disperse (61,43) Your memories of the two-and-seventy sects And praise wine's alchemy that still can banish With one red draught more than a thousand spites. 66 I drink wine as my fellow-topers drink. (,) How much I drink can seem of small concern To God, who knows well that I drink. Abstention From drink would make God's knowledge ignorance. 67 They say: 'Be sober, lest you die of drink (,56) And earn Hell fire on God's Last Judgement Day.' Nevertheless my blaze of drunkenness Outshines both worlds: your Now and your Hereafter. 68 My wandering feet have led me through far plains (67,) And valleys: I have strayed this way and that Yet never found a traveller who could boast That he had ever trod the same road twice. Let the mystery of the web remain forever and ever, til there be time no more! tanzen ------------------------------ From: ASHA101@aol.com Date: Sun, 30 Jun 1996 18:17:56 -0400 Subject: personal sugar >>>Why is everyone suddenly shooting flaming arrows?) Salam Maarof<<<< I spent the evening last night grousing quite a bit, even though i knew it was the wrong thing to do .. just grousing in the nicest way possible, but i knew that all i wanted to do is complain, so I had a friend and we got together and complained among other more beautiful aspects ..... So what is wrong with complaining, except that one should take as much care as possible to not hurt anyone's feelings in the process .... I love the Jewish tradition of sometiems complaining to God. Not being Jewish i don't know if I have the hang of it yet ... What I mean is, even divorced from these particular people and this particular event I still feel like complaining ... no doubt I'd find another event and another reason ... (the meak shall inherit the earth .. but I don't feel like being meak, and i don't think I want to inherit the earth!! grouse - - grouse) so, maybe these events and these compulsive feelings i feel are clues to the real events ... wonder what those are??? Asha ------------------------------ From: Well333@turbonet.com (Jacquie Weller) Date: Sun, 30 Jun 1996 15:38:34 +0100 Subject: Re: sick yet? :) >Gee.. i hope everyone is not sick of me yet! > >One time... a plea for everyone to pleeease stay... i feel as though i am at >least somewhat responsible... i asked Jabriel to be straight with me... >whatever else is going on, i don't know... but, i certainly don't mind >straight talk.... > >Loosing the veils ain't easy! ... and that's why i'm here... to learn and to >grow and to love... i don't want anything sugar coated! > >apologies for whatever i may have done to offend... and a plea to be made >aware of my offense so i can 'fix it'! please! > > all my love, > woodsong > - ------------- i am not leaving not while we have been having so much fun, playing on the net with words that really are just words. Come lets all have some coffee at the park today, fly a kite, spin some tales, speak of thee, i would not think of leaving, none of this is anyone's fault. My initiator told me a sequet. He said Kaffea, this i say, just to you (because i was always apologizing and saying everything was my fault)...He said only use that word FAULT when it comes to earthquakes. Love Kaffea Lalla. > ------------------------------ From: informe@best.com Date: Sun, 30 Jun 1996 16:01:37 -0700 Subject: Re: It is not all sugar and light >The path would seem to have different requirements of us at different times. >For a while I've felt a strong pull to "retire" from the list, and it now >seems time. I have enjoyed your companionship, all of you, and learned much. > > >(Now if I can just get the unsub thing to work right !) > >Love and blessing to all, >Julie I find some recent exchanges nothing short of hideous and am considering pulling the plug as well. Hamza ------------------------------ From: Frank Gaude Date: Sun, 30 Jun 1996 16:20:32 -0700 Subject: Re: sick yet? :) CWoodsong@aol.com wrote: > > Loosing the veils ain't easy! ... You can say that again. > and that's why i'm here... to learn and to > grow and to love... i don't want anything sugar coated! Yes, and you are here to help me see the light. We share through our love for one another. > apologies for whatever i may have done to offend... I can't see how you could offend with your ways, your words... > and a plea to be made > aware of my offense so i can 'fix it'! please! Please... you are a product of the living God. So be it! "Let the dead bury the dead." Beauty, harmony, then love , tanzen ------------------------------ From: maarof@pc.jaring.my Date: Mon, 1 Jul 1996 07:44:46 +0800 Subject: Re: sick yet? :) On Sun, 30 Jun 1996, CWoodsong@aol.com wrote: >Gee.. i hope everyone is not sick of me yet! > >One time... a plea for everyone to pleeease stay... i feel as though i am at >least somewhat responsible... i asked Jabriel to be straight with me... >whatever else is going on, i don't know... but, i certainly don't mind >straight talk.... > >Loosing the veils ain't easy! ... and that's why i'm here... to learn and to >grow and to love... i don't want anything sugar coated! > >apologies for whatever i may have done to offend... and a plea to be made >aware of my offense so i can 'fix it'! please! > > all my love, > woodsong > Salam to Carol and friends in Tariqas I don't feel any wrong or bad intention in Jabreil's remark (maybe I'm not part of the cultural pattern of most list members which are Americans). In a way, I'm puzzled (that why I made the remark -- flaming arrows -- an imaginary thing). Maybe I'm not a member sufi tariqa/group and I'm not trained to be sensitive to really feel such remark/intention. I hope you can enlighten me on this one, my friend. salam maarof e-mail maarof@pc.jaring.my ------------------------------ From: Fred Rice Date: Mon, 1 Jul 1996 11:03:48 +1000 (EST) Subject: Cat Stevens (was Re: Sufi) Peace be with you :) I have heard the odd rumour that Yusuf Islam (formerly Cat Stevens) has some involvement with Sufism. Does anyone know whether this is true or not ? Wassalam, Fariduddien Rice On Sat, 29 Jun 1996 CWoodsong@aol.com wrote: > "Don't be shy... just let your feelings roll on by > don't wear fear, or nobody will know you're there > just lift your head and let your feelings out instead... > Y'know love is better than a song > Love is where all of us belong... " > > <>><>><>><>><>><>> > > If you wanna sing out, sing out! > If you wanna be free, be free! > There's a million ways to be, > you know that there are! > > <>><>><>><>><>><>> > > Oh, yeah! > I wish I knew, I wish I knew > what makes me, me, what makes you, you. > It's just another point of view > > oooh! > a state of mind I'm going through > so what I see is never true... > > <>><>><>><>><>><>> > > from Cat Stevens' songs from the movie... ------------------------------ From: Fred Rice Date: Mon, 1 Jul 1996 11:07:57 +1000 (EST) Subject: Re: Recent jabs, corrections Dear Jules, Peace be with you ! On Sat, 29 Jun 1996 JHulvey@aol.com wrote: > As for coffee: Is this correct, that in Arabic, it is the same word for both > "coffee" and "wine"? I don't speak Arabic, apart from a few words, so someone else has already probably answered something correctly. _But_, if not, if my memory serves me correctly, I think the Arabic word for "coffee" is "kahwa" or "ahwa", and for "wine" is "khamr", so they are not the same. But any corrections welcomed! Peace, Fariduddien Rice ------------------------------ From: ASHA101@aol.com Date: Sun, 30 Jun 1996 21:09:16 -0400 Subject: Re: relationships, flaming, and enlightenment Dear Bob, thanks, I'm so glad that it made some sense ... you wrote: >>> If "rising above" arises as a consequence of deep involvement ...<< that is exactly what is ment by sufism .. it is that journey, that is both cyclical and progressive from the earth to the heavens "True exaltatin of the spirit resies in the fact tht it has come to earth and has realized there its spiritual existence" (Pir-o-Murshid Inayat Khan) I find that distincition between rising above and deep involvement a key to understand their relationship which in turn is helpful to an understanding of a natural way of and living (realizing one's spritual existence) as you say in that simple phrase about the life which rises above as a consequence of deep involvement. Some of the largest mistakes we make is to put it the other way around, or just skip deep involvement alltogether, in its fullness this is what I think the sufis mean by surrender - the feminine surrender, not simply the opposite of dominance nor even the masculine surrender which is an overcoming and a death but the feminine surrender which is a diving into and a birth--- the metaphor is so stuck by the image of the feminine (the depth) and the masculine (the rising). I guess that there is much more, but at this moment, these days, this time on the planet, it seems that a healing in the broad scope of this thought that you put so simply (that rising above is a consequence of deep involvement) is quite needed. Also this point about diving deep it is reflective of entering the spiritual journey, it is the first step, the entering through the door, awakening to the inner life ... stuff like that ... spirituality begins on earth and then rises to the heavens, we allways think it is the other way around!!! A ------------------------------ From: Fred Rice Date: Mon, 1 Jul 1996 11:31:38 +1000 (EST) Subject: Re: A Question On Sun, 30 Jun 1996 haybat@rummelplatz.uni-mannheim.de wrote: > As salam alaykum, Wa alaikum salam, > I heard, that it is told in the Holy Quran, that man didn't want to > go into the body, but the music of the angels moved him into it. Does > anybody know, in which sura and ayat this is written? I am not aware of such a verse (but that doesn't mean it isn't there). My impression is that humankind undertook the "Trust" (of responsibility) willingly (Qur'an 33:72), though I'm not sure if this is quite what you are referring to. Peace, Fariduddien Rice ------------------------------ From: Jinavamsa@aol.com Date: Sun, 30 Jun 1996 21:58:56 -0400 Subject: Re: Cat Stevens (was Re: Sufi) In a message dated 96-06-30 21:04:51 EDT, you write: >Peace be with you :) >I have heard the odd rumour that Yusuf Islam (formerly Cat >Stevens) has some involvement with Sufism. Does anyone know >whether this is true or not ? >Wassalam, >Fariduddien Rice On Sat, 29 Jun 1996 CWoodsong@aol.com wrote: >> "Don't be shy... just let your feelings roll on by >> don't wear fear, or nobody will know you're there >> just lift your head and let your feelings out instead... >> Y'know love is better than a song >> Love is where all of us belong... " >> .... from Cat Stevens (pre-Yusuf?) , used in movie Harold and Maude Long ago there was an interview with Yusuf, ex-Cat Stevens, in which he was reported to have said that S. Rushdie deserved the death sentence from the Ayatollah, given what he (SD) had written, referring to Satanic Verses. Perhaps this was an instance of distorted news-reporting, possibly not. Yet, if Yusuf did say that, perhaps your question could be answered only once the particular time (date, years) is made explicit, and the "some involvement" is more delineated: hearing a "Sufi" idea or using a Sufi-inspired lyric would be one level of involvement, for example (this one, not much of an involvement). I look forward to others' replies to your question. I do not remember the calling for or supporting anyone's being killed ever being a Sufi value. Is this historically naive? CS's songs remain wondrous, no matter what turns he personally took. Does anyone know what he thinking these days? (is this what being a celebrity brings with it?) in peace, Jinavamsa ------------------------------ From: Gale Date: Sun, 30 Jun 1996 19:04:09 -0700 Subject: RE: Cat Stevens (was Re: Sufi) - ------ =_NextPart_000_01BB66B7.03079EE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I have not heard that Cat Stevens has a current Sufi connection, = although his Islamic conversion and activities have been well = politicized by various Muslim countries and/or countries with a large = Muslim population, and various organizations. I have seen foreign = consulate publications, even Iran, with Stevens interviews. A long, long = time back, I heard something about his linking with Idries Shah, but I = cannot imagine that is the case any longer nor if there is any truth to = it. 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I pray that anything I have said is forgotten if it is in error, and only that remain that is not. I too got caught up in currents today. I expressed opinions, and threw forth words that may have little to do with anyone, but what was going on in me. I think everyone here has vaule to me. I don't want surgar coating either. The things I react to, are usually things I need to hear, (for myself). I don't see this as a flaming thing today, but something revealing more. One thing i dissagreed with earlier, i think i agree with now. Perhaps i am listening after all. Tanzen said something powerful which at first i was really at odds with, and now reconsider and say AH...there is much reality, truth, in that. Well that's all for now. Lalla. ------------------------------ From: informe@best.com Date: Sun, 30 Jun 1996 19:23:01 -0700 Subject: Re: Cat Stevens (was Re: Sufi) >Peace be with you :) > >I have heard the odd rumour that Yusuf Islam (formerly Cat >Stevens) has some involvement with Sufism. Does anyone know >whether this is true or not ? > >Wassalam, > >Fariduddien Rice It's my understanding that he has taken bayat with Shaykh Nazim al-Qubbrusi, my own shaykh. I have met his brother-in-law at Naqshbandi zikr. Hamza ------------------------------ From: Well333@turbonet.com (Jacquie Weller) Date: Sun, 30 Jun 1996 19:42:40 +0100 Subject: [none] Surrender o self, Surrender thy skin that is so thin Surrender thy mind that is untied Surrender thy treasures, for they are trinkets Surrender thy defense for it is selfish Surrender thy creeds for it is ignorant Surrender thy will for it is emptyness Surrender thy light for it is shadow Give up thy life for it is not yours Surrender thy opinion for they are Bee Stings Surrender thy feelings for they toss to and fro Give up thy religion for it is a shell... Yes, it all that i can say. Surrender all But how do i do it? Kaffea Lalla ------------------------------ From: Fred Rice Date: Mon, 1 Jul 1996 12:54:13 +1000 (EST) Subject: Re: Cat Stevens (was Re: Sufi) Dear Hamza, Assalamu alaikum, On Sun, 30 Jun 1996 informe@best.com wrote: > It's my understanding that he has taken bayat with Shaykh Nazim > al-Qubbrusi, my own shaykh. I have met his brother-in-law at Naqshbandi > zikr. Yes, I had heard he had some connection with Shaykh Nazim, though I don't remember where I heard it. Did you ask his brother-in-law about it? (I assume his brother-in-law would know if it is true!) Wassalam, Fariduddien ------------------------------ From: CWoodsong@aol.com Date: Sun, 30 Jun 1996 22:55:43 -0400 Subject: confusion?! :) God, such abundance! :) Whatever is going on... i don't know... but it's pretty cool, i'd say! ;) I went to the park today... a Festival our town (Norman, Oklahoma) puts on, Jazz in June... it's a good 'excuse' to get together with friends and just hang out in the park listening to good music. As i was sitting there, under a tree, watching the world go by... friends... and those yet to be friends... i thought of you guys. (oh, she really IS crazy, you say!) and realized how /real/ you all are... just as /real/ as my friend with her arms wrapped around me... just as /real/ as my son looking quite alien (it's a style, i guess :) pleading with me to take him home because it was sooo hot!, just as /real/ as the wind singing to me through the treetops! ... just as /real/ as the drummers on stage, and the dancers and children and dogs and laughter and smiles! No, it's not all sugar and light... but when my focus is love... what i /see/ transforms before my eyes! Methinks that there is much laughter and light and sweetness surrounding us.... and sweet (no offense intended! ) sister Coffee, i don't /do/ fault... just responsibility! :) take peace, y'all... life is short and there is work to be done! :) love ya! woodsong ------------------------------ End of tariqas-digest V1 #40 ****************************