From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Sun May 5 14:40:25 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA15033; Sun, 5 May 1996 23:54:50 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id XAA02692; Sun, 5 May 1996 23:43:50 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from edumath.math.usu.edu by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id XAA02688; Sun, 5 May 1996 23:43:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: by edumath.math.usu.edu (5.0/SMI-SVR4) id AA01111; Sun, 5 May 1996 21:40:25 +0700 Date: Sun, 5 May 1996 21:40:25 +0700 From: sllcr@edumath.math.usu.edu (Asim Jalis) Message-Id: <9605060340.AA01111@edumath.math.usu.edu> To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Subject: Insects Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: A Something I was thinking about which might seem to have the stench of nitpicky rationalism and fiqh-ism about it but I will be imprudent enough to ask anyway: how does one reconcile loving all of God's creation with using pesticides to kill roaches? Asim From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Mon May 6 05:30:47 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA17409; Mon, 6 May 1996 01:32:14 -0400 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id BAA14318; Mon, 6 May 1996 01:32:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA11038; Mon, 6 May 1996 01:30:49 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id BAA13993; Mon, 6 May 1996 01:30:47 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 01:30:47 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199605060530.BAA13993@europe.std.com> X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f To: tariqas-approval@world.std.com From: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Subject: BOUNCE tariqas@world.std.com: Admin request Status: RO X-Status: >From habib@world.std.com Mon May 6 01:30:46 1996 Return-Path: Received: from bbs.cruzio.com by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id BAA13977; Mon, 6 May 1996 01:30:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pine196.cruzio.com by bbs.cruzio.com id aa07094; 5 May 96 22:26 PDT X-Sender: dances@mail.cruzio.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 5 May 1996 22:27:41 -0700 To: tariqas@europe.std.com From: james hallam unsubscribe tariqas james hallam From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Mon May 6 08:49:14 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA06151; Mon, 6 May 1996 08:47:56 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id IAA22157; Mon, 6 May 1996 08:30:33 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from kantti.helsinki.fi by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id IAA22137; Mon, 6 May 1996 08:30:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from Elo.helsinki.fi (elo.Helsinki.FI [128.214.79.31]) by kantti.helsinki.fi (8.6.12+Emil1.1/8.6.5) with ESMTP id PAA11876 for ; Mon, 6 May 1996 15:30:25 +0300 Received: from ELO/SpoolDir by Elo.helsinki.fi (Mercury 1.21); 6 May 96 15:55:18 EET Received: from SpoolDir by ELO (Mercury 1.21); 6 May 96 15:55:04 EET From: "Morteza elmolhoda" Organization: University of Helsinki To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 15:54:57 EET Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Subject: Has anyone read Dr. Annemarie Schimmel's Address X-Confirm-Reading-To: morteza.elmolhoda@helsinki.fi Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.10) Message-Id: <67071F24ED@Elo.helsinki.fi> Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: Assalaamu Alaikum Could anyone kindly send me Dr. Annemarie Schimmel's regular mail address. Thanks Morteza Elmolhoda morteza.elmolhoda@helsinki.fi From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Mon May 6 14:51:37 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA21404; Mon, 6 May 1996 11:26:37 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id KAA15618; Mon, 6 May 1996 10:50:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from WIZARD.COLORADO.EDU by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id KAA15548; Mon, 6 May 1996 10:49:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from granger.cusys.edu by WIZARD.COLORADO.EDU (PMDF #12158) id <01I4DODFA18G8WY5G5@WIZARD.COLORADO.EDU>; Mon, 6 May 1996 08:50 GMT Date: Mon, 06 May 1996 08:51:37 -0600 From: Mike Granger Subject: Re: guns and God-forsakenness To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Message-Id: <2.2.16.19960506145137.30b7c85c@wizard.colorado.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: granger_m@wizard.colorado.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: At 09:09 AM 5/4/96 -0400, you wrote: > >I'd like to add just this bit to the discussion. I don't think there are >God-forsaken places in Chicago or elsewhere, but I do think there are >human-forsaken people who have to live with a lack of love and in >circumstances which make for desperation and self-loathing. I don't >think such people are ever helped by easy availability of arms. Neither >are people who live in fear that "those people are the problem" helped >by easy availability of arms. This kind of thing -- armed violence born >of lack of love and plenty of desperation, which then creates a desperate >desire to further arm against armed violence -- is known as a vicious >circle. My perception is that America is deeply caught up in this circle >and needs to find ways out. We begin by talking, so I'm grateful to all >for having this discussion! Perhaps the term God-forsaken should not be used without a sure knowledge that such a place could be labeled as such, and that would be hard indeed to "know". I agree as to what you attribute the cause of this kind of general social condition of such areas or groups of desperate people. It is up to every individual to do whatever they can to put some mercy and love back into the world, and that starts with their own family. Whatever an individual can do to extend that beyond their family is great. I'm just making the simple point that there is a large number of individuals on the loose who have absolutley no regard for human life, and the number of these types is growing daily. You're even seeing little kids causing havoc. You've seen the story of the 6-year old who nearly beat a baby to death in the news recently? This type of societal chaos is on the increase, and anyone who doesn't believe that has their head in the sand. Personally, I don't think any more laws, or more police, or more of anything, is going to do much to stop this chaos; in other words, I'm pessimistic. What optimism I do have rests with my belief that at some point, and only Allah knows when, it will all come to some kind of head, and the dam will somehow break. Perhaps this will coincide with Sayyidina Mahdi's arrival; that would be great. I don't think that anything short of some kind of Divine relief, and cleansing, will have any effect on the downward spiral of our social condition. All of the best intentions, and "days of prayer", and social programs, and whatever, won't make a bit of difference. The Shaytan is in full control of a large segment of the population, and it is in Allah's hands as to when and how that control will be given back to those with goodness and mercy in their hearts. I must add that I think that the advent of Islam into more of the general population in America is perhaps helping to slow down this fall into the pit, but I don't see it as ever really stopping the inevitable. I do sincerely pray, though, that I am wrong, and that my children and everyone's children, will have a better world to live in, and that true peace will be the norm. In the meantime, you just have to deal with it as best you can. That includes having the ability to be armed, especially in your own home and in your car during travel, so that you can have a fighting chance to live if you encounter one of these animals on two legs. Just like the Bosnians had the right to defend themselves, but weren't allowed to until it was too late, there is just as much of a "war" happening in the cities and even outside of the cities, and people here have the same right to have a fighting chance to stop themselves from being victims of that war. >May peace be with you. . . > >Bob King > > Peace with you also. > From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Mon May 6 15:09:10 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA09684; Mon, 6 May 1996 11:53:09 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id LAA18706; Mon, 6 May 1996 11:09:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from emout16.mail.aol.com by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id LAA18700; Mon, 6 May 1996 11:09:15 -0400 (EDT) From: ASHA101@aol.com Received: by emout16.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id LAA10571 for tariqas@europe.std.com; Mon, 6 May 1996 11:09:10 -0400 Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 11:09:10 -0400 Message-Id: <960506110909_529189192@emout16.mail.aol.com> To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Subject: Re: Insects Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: >>>how does one reconcile loving all of God's creation with using pesticides to kill roaches?<< By allways being as kind as you possibly can ... somewhere I heard a Sufi who said that sufis don't do things differently than others, they just do them with great depth. And I remember a Sufi who, when a bee stung him, apologised to the bee, when he steped on a thorn he sympathised with the thorn. So often we swat away mosquitos in anger, it is not the swating away of mosquitos that is suggested you consider but the anger. What is the motive in the killing of roaches? are pesticides in tune with that motive? That is at least partly the way I would approach it, anyway. Asha From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Mon May 6 15:59:16 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA01248; Mon, 6 May 1996 12:24:23 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id LAA26801; Mon, 6 May 1996 11:59:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from emout07.mail.aol.com by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id LAA26789; Mon, 6 May 1996 11:59:16 -0400 (EDT) From: Hafizullah@aol.com Received: by emout07.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id LAA07811 for tariqas@europe.std.com; Mon, 6 May 1996 11:59:16 -0400 Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 11:59:16 -0400 Message-Id: <960506115720_529217064@emout07.mail.aol.com> To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Subject: Re: Insects Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: In a message dated 96-05-05 23:44:34 EDT, you write: >how does one reconcile loving all of God's >creation with using pesticides to kill roaches? When one _truly_ loves all of God's creation (i.e., as a living, immediate experience in the heart and not a rule or a concept), you are a free being and I would hesitate to predict how a free being would handle anything, since it would depend on the circumstances and inner guidance of the moment. And it's your experience and not mine. If using pesticides is the issue, there are effective alternatives to chemical pesticides, such as diatomaceous earth or boric acid. If wholesale killing of living beings is the issue, then there are a myriad of ways it might be handled, totally depending on who you are (state of consciousness, circumstance, guidance). You might choose not to kill them, being as you are in direct experience of the divine mandate that roaches exist and shall receive freely of God's beneficence and mercy. You might choose to kill them, knowing also that the self-reflective consciousness embodied in a roach is non-existent or minimal and there is very little karmic implication in returning that consciousness and life-force to whence it came --- and it's where we all go sooner or later anyway. Roaches are destructive and carry diseases; in fact, you could look at them as a pathogen in their own right: an invasive, opportunistic, and destructive organism possessing no redeeming social value, in a space occupied by humans and incompatible with human well-being. Do we as humans have the right to make that judgement? Of course. Our bodies make that judgement all day long at the cellular level. You have a moral obligation to protect yourself and your family. The real question is: How do YOU feel? If you don't directly experience something called "loving all of God's creation," --- which at a certain level implies participating with God in the Divine Love for all of creation --- the question is academic. From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Mon May 6 21:23:52 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA29660; Mon, 6 May 1996 18:49:20 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id RAA17053; Mon, 6 May 1996 17:23:57 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from emout18.mail.aol.com by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id RAA17038; Mon, 6 May 1996 17:23:53 -0400 (EDT) From: RHMH@aol.com Received: by emout18.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id RAA21542; Mon, 6 May 1996 17:23:52 -0400 Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 17:23:52 -0400 Message-Id: <960506172351_529442244@emout18.mail.aol.com> To: mhall@envirolink.org, wh@seas.upenn.edu, tariqas@facteur.std.com Subject: Re: More Lama Fire Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: Subj: Wildfire at Lama Mountain Date: 96-05-06 01:23:48 EDT Dear Friends, Here is a report on the fire at Lama Mountain from Siddiq von Briesen, one of the founders of Lama Foundation. As might be expected in a situation like this, there are conflicting reports. I understand that all the residents have been successfully evacuated to safety, as Siddiq reports, but I have also heard subsequent to his account a report that the Main Dome and Kitchen are still standing. Obviously, we must wait for more complete and accurate information to come in, and then begin to deal with the tragic aspects of loss, sorting out how to proceed with some kind of revised summer plan, and support for habitat restoration and reconstruction of Lama. Your individual and group prayers for the highest good to be served through this purification by fire are requested. Love, Moineddin ----------------------- Sun, May 5, 1996, 4:18 PM PDT RE: Wildfire at Lama Mountain Dear Friends, All the Lama Beans were ordered to evacuate today because of an uncontrollable wildfire started in San Cristobal and sweeping up the mountain. As of 4:45pm, it was declared a class two wildfire, meaning that the main effort was to protect human life. It was so big that all ground crews had to be pulled out. All personnel are safe, Lama beans are at New Buffalo now, going to the Neem Karolli Ashram in Taos tonight. It is a very big fire, and it is almost certain that it swept through Lama and destroyed everything that fire can destroy. All houses in the area were destroyed, neighbors' and the Foundation's. It started with a brush-clearing fire in a field in San Cristobal that got out of control. Sara and other residents of San Cristobal fought it all day. All plans will have to be changed. What Lama is or will be has to be worked out over time. My and Sakina's grief is present, but it's really too much to comprehend. On some level, I haven't begun to experience the loss. All of the wider Lama circle need your healing prayers. In the Love of the One, Siddiq * * * * * * * * Subj: FWD: More on Lama Mountain fire... Date: 96-05-06 05:55:27 EDT ------------------- Sun, May 5, 1996, 7:45 PM PDT RE: Lama Mountain Fire Dear Friends, We got word about 45 minutes ago that someone had gone up to the Lama Foundation premises and radioed out that it was intact. (At least what he could see.) According to TV news reports, the winds are very shifty, and the fire could reverse direction. So even if the premises are OK, they are still at risk. Most of the neighbors' houses down the hill have been destroyed. Questa and Red River are at risk, and fire lines are being made to protect them. Flames encircle Flag Mountain. Lama Foundation's property may be off limits for a while because of continuing fire danger. The Lama residents will stay at New Buffalo for two days. They have already pulled together to decide what to do and which teams will do what, including dealing with the inner work in connection with this event. God bless them. It tells me that Lama Foundation is what it is, premises or no. I'll keep you posted. Prayers of healing are yet needed for all of us, and our neighbors. In the Love of the One, Siddiq * * * * * * * * Subj: FWD: Lama Mountain Fire Date: 96-05-06 11:28:36 EDT --------------- Mon, May 6, 1996, 4:07 AM PDT RE: Lama Mountain Fire Dear Friends, Lesley and Karima went this morning to the foot of the Lama road to see what they could see. Since everything was burned out, they went on up, finding the main dome complex, the old and new kitchens, the garage, and the Dewdrap (over the old larder) undamaged. The ISC and the Dwarf A were destroyed, as was the Office/Flag Mountain building (the old barn). They found the two cats and left. The whole mountainside is burned out, except for pockets, and there are still residual fires all over the area. Questa and Red River have been evacuated. Your prayers are most appreciated. In the Love of the One, Siddiq * * * * * * * * Subj: LAMA MOUNTAIN FIRE Date: 96-05-06 12:01:35 EDT This now from someone who went up the mountain and did a careful inspection: Lama Central is still pretty much intact, with the dome and the new kitchen and the Dew Drop still standing, though smoke damaged. The outlying houses as well as Flag and the ISC are completely destroyed. I will continue to keep you posted. Padma Vajra PK Kozel * * * * * * * * From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Mon May 6 23:08:02 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA26789; Mon, 6 May 1996 19:36:24 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id TAA00377; Mon, 6 May 1996 19:08:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from emout18.mail.aol.com by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id TAA00330; Mon, 6 May 1996 19:08:04 -0400 (EDT) From: Jinavamsa@aol.com Received: by emout18.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id TAA14945 for tariqas@europe.std.com; Mon, 6 May 1996 19:08:02 -0400 Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 19:08:02 -0400 Message-Id: <960506190802_485556354@emout18.mail.aol.com> To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Subject: Re: Has anyone read Dr. Annemarie Schimmel's Address Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: In a message dated 96-05-06 08:32:40 EDT, you write: >Could anyone kindly send me Dr. Annemarie Schimmel's regular mail >address. > > >Thanks > >Morteza Elmolhoda >morteza.elmolhoda@helsinki.fi > > > I don't have it but you might try the faculty directory at http:/www.harvard.edu good luck, Jinavmas From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Tue May 7 08:19:25 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA11241; Tue, 7 May 1996 04:53:30 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id EAA11398; Tue, 7 May 1996 04:20:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id EAA11394; Tue, 7 May 1996 04:20:16 -0400 (EDT) From: informe@best.com Received: from blob.best.net by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA07280; Tue, 7 May 1996 04:19:30 -0400 Received: from [204.156.129.34] (informe.vip.best.com [204.156.129.34]) by blob.best.net (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id BAA24638; Tue, 7 May 1996 01:19:25 -0700 Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 01:19:25 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: Re: Rumi Cc: jmiller@willowgreen.com Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: >Perhaps you can help me? I am preparing a presentation of Rumi's >writings accompanied by my own photography. I want to be sure to >pronounce his name correctly. Can you tell me how? Thank you. >Jim Miller As-salaam alaikum, Let me forward your note to the Tariqas mailing list, and perhaps they can advise you. Salaams, Hamza From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Tue May 7 13:50:44 1996 Received: from europe.std.com (europe-e.std.com) by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA13763; Tue, 7 May 1996 10:04:22 -0400 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id KAA22414; Tue, 7 May 1996 10:02:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from europe.std.com (europe-e.std.com) by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA07857; Tue, 7 May 1996 09:52:13 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id JAA20557; Tue, 7 May 1996 09:50:44 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 09:50:44 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199605071350.JAA20557@europe.std.com> X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f To: tariqas-approval@world.std.com From: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Subject: BOUNCE tariqas@world.std.com: Non-member submission from [Jim Henry ] Status: RO X-Status: >From habib@world.std.com Tue May 7 09:50:42 1996 Return-Path: Received: from cecasun.utc.edu by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id JAA20553; Tue, 7 May 1996 09:50:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 199.76.196.41 by cecasun.utc.edu (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id JAA27339; Tue, 7 May 1996 09:50:31 -0400 Message-ID: <318F0E8C.5CA8@utc.edu> Date: Tue, 07 May 1996 08:49:16 +0000 From: Jim Henry Organization: University of Tennessee at Chattanooga 423-755-4398 X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: informe@best.com, tariqas@facteur.std.com Subject: Re: Rumi pronounciation References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mevlana Jelaladin Rumi is generally Rumi's full name. Mevlana is a title, similar to "lord" or "master" or "teacher" Mev rhymes with the Bev in Beverly -lana sounds similar to the woman's name Lonna, rhymes with Donna moderate accent on the -la- Jelalladin is a transliteration of a Persian or Arabic name that indicates connection to Allah or religion Jel as in Jello -lall- as in -pal- in appalling -adin is like uh-deen soft accents on the -lall- and the -deen Rumi means he was from Rum (as Israeli means from Israel or Iraqi ... ) Rum is pronounced liek "room", so Rumi = "roomie", as in roommate. Rum, by the way is now central Turkey. I believe Rum has a connection to what we know as Rome. I make up that the Persins called people to the East of them "Rumis" because the Roman Empire was the empire to the West. Good luck. JIM More knowledgeable people, plese correct me. From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Tue May 7 16:17:15 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA02236; Tue, 7 May 1996 12:53:37 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id MAA12992; Tue, 7 May 1996 12:17:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from emout10.mail.aol.com by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id MAA12986; Tue, 7 May 1996 12:17:15 -0400 (EDT) From: Hafizullah@aol.com Received: by emout10.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id MAA24874 for tariqas@europe.std.com; Tue, 7 May 1996 12:17:15 -0400 Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 12:17:15 -0400 Message-Id: <960507121713_486039185@emout10.mail.aol.com> To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Subject: Re: Rumi Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: In a message dated 96-05-07 04:23:33 EDT, you write: >>Perhaps you can help me? I am preparing a presentation of Rumi's >>writings accompanied by my own photography. I want to be sure to >>pronounce his name correctly. Can you tell me how? Thank you. >>Jim Miller Depends. Most English speakers will recognize Rumi as pronounced "Roomy." In Perso-Arabic script, it's written to be pronounced Roo-mee, equal stress on both syllables. Coleman Barks pronounces it this way, btw. Rumi's devotees and most Turks simply refer to him as "Mevlana:" "Our Master." It's Persian, borrowed from Arabic (maw-la-na, equally accented), and the Turks pronounced it mev-LA-na. in Service, Hafizullah faqir-i Mevlevi From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Tue May 7 17:36:49 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA28592; Tue, 7 May 1996 14:13:31 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id NAA26226; Tue, 7 May 1996 13:36:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id NAA26213; Tue, 7 May 1996 13:36:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ollie.clarku.edu by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA29362; Tue, 7 May 1996 13:33:44 -0400 Received: from black.clarku.edu by vax.clarku.edu (PMDF V5.0-5 #7296) id <01I4FCNFWZDC90RWKU@vax.clarku.edu> for tariqas@world.std.com; Tue, 07 May 1996 13:36:21 -0500 (EST) Received: by black.clarku.edu; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/30Dec95-0455PM) id AA05368; Tue, 07 May 1996 13:36:49 -0400 Date: Tue, 07 May 1996 13:36:49 -0400 (EDT) From: The Cypriot To: tariqas@world.std.com Message-Id: <9605071736.AA05368@black.clarku.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: signoff tariqas From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Tue May 7 18:18:48 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA19394; Tue, 7 May 1996 15:30:37 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id OAA05494; Tue, 7 May 1996 14:30:39 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from relay3.jaring.my by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id OAA05453; Tue, 7 May 1996 14:30:28 -0400 (EDT) From: maarof@pc.jaring.my Received: from 161.142.239.156 (j14.brf47.jaring.my [161.142.239.156]) by relay3.jaring.my (8.7.1/8.7.1) with SMTP id CAA07282 for ; Wed, 8 May 1996 02:18:48 +0800 (MYT) Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 02:18:48 +0800 (MYT) Message-Id: <199605071818.CAA07282@relay3.jaring.my> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Maryam Jameela To: tariqas@facteur.std.com In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: SPRY Mail Version: 04.00.06.17 Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: On Sun, 5 May 1996, Jawad Qureshi wrote: > >Salamz, > >> Was it the news of the death of Maryam >> Jameela? > >Her death? I did not hear of this. In fact, I recently read a few >articles by her, and a few that concerned her. > >I would appreciate if you could tell me when you heard that she passed away. > >Salamz, >Jawad. > Dear Jawad & Friends in Tariqas, I am sorry if my previous post gave a false hint about Maryam Jameela's death. I've tried to find more information about her, especially about her recent writings. Alas, the answers seem elusive at the moment. I also tried to find the elusive _Periodica Islamica_ (hmm...published in Malaysia). Hopefully I hit the jackpot some other days. I have scanned the catalogs from few libraries around the world. Most university libraries have Maryam's book (one or two) ... but ... of all the universities, I was suprised and somewhat stunned, to find that Temple University (where the 'great' Islamic thinkers of present day associated with) doesn't have a single book by Maryam Jameelah. Her books might be at the low end of academic spectrum, but have done wonders to the souls of few Muslims (mine included). Salam -Maaruf- Books by Maryam Jameelah (Margaret Marcus b.1934- ) (catalogs of University of Pennsylvania, Franklin) --------------------------------------------------- 1. Ahmad Khalil; the biography of a Palestinian Arab refugee (1968) Published: Lahore, Mohammad Yusuf Khan. Description: xiii, 146 p. 19 cm. 2. Correspondence between Maulana Maudoodi and Maryam Jameela (1969) Author: Maudoodi, Syed Abul `Ala, 1903-1979. Published: Lahore, Mohammad Yusuf Khan, <1969>. Description: iii, 88 p. (p. 84-88 advertisements). 22 cm. 3. Islam and Western society : a refutation of the modern way of life / by Maryam Jameelah. Edition: 1st ed. Published: Lahore : Mohammad Yusuf Khan, 1976. Description: xii, 328 p., <1> leaf of plate : ill. ; 23 cm. Subjects (use s=): Islam--20th century Civilization, Modern--20th century Civilization, Occidental 4. Islam in theory and practice Published: Lahore, Mohammad Yusuf Khan, 1967. Description: viii, 308 p. port. 22 cm. Subjects (use s=): Islam--Apologetic works Notes: Bibliography: p. 295-304. 5. Islam versus Ahl al-Kitab, past and present / by Maryam Jameelah Edition: 1st ed. Published: Lahore, Mohammad Yusuf Khan, 1968. Description: xxvii, 320 p. 22 cm. Subjects (use s=): Islam--Apologetic works Judaism--Controversial literature Christianity--Controversial literature 6. Islam versus the West / by Maryam Jameelah. Edition: <2d ed., rev. and enl.>. Published: Lahore, Mohammad Yusuf Khan, <1968>. Description: 128 p. 19 cm. Subjects (use s=): Islam--Relations Islam--20th century Notes: Bibliography: p. <127>-128. 7. Western civilization condemned by itself, a comprehensive study of moral retrogression and its consequences. / Selected, arranged, and edited by Maryam Jameelah. Edition: <1st ed.>. Published: Lahore, Mohammad Yusuf Khan, <1970-71>. Description: 2 v. illus. 23 cm. Subjects (use s=): Civilization, Occidental--History--Sources. Notes: Review of the author's other works: v. 1, p. <439>-443. Includes bibliographical references. 8. Westernization and human welfare / . Published: Delhi, India : Crescent Pub. Co., <1982?> Description: 95 p. ; 23 cm. Subjects (use s=): Civilization, Occidental Civilization, Modern--Miscellanea. 9. Who is Maudoodi? by Maryam Jameelah. Edition: <1st ed.> Published: Lahore, Mohammad Yusuf Khan <1973> Description: 68 p. 22 cm. Subjects (use s=): Maudoodi, Syed Abul `Ala, 1903-1979. Notes: Includes excerpts from Maudoodi's speeches. Includes bibliographical references. Other contributors: Maudoodi, Syed Abul `Ala, 1903-1979. From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Tue May 7 11:48:25 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA23451; Tue, 7 May 1996 16:19:29 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id PAA17374; Tue, 7 May 1996 15:49:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from cypher.turbonet.com by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id PAA17301; Tue, 7 May 1996 15:48:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [204.188.48.215] by cypher.turbonet.com (NTMail 3.01.03) id da057801; Tue, 7 May 1996 12:48:25 +0100 X-Sender: Well333@turbonet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: tariqas@facteur.std.com From: Well333@turbonet.com (Jacquie Weller) Subject: Re: Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 12:48:25 +0100 Message-Id: <19482554409877@turbonet.com> X-Info: Visit http:// www.TurboNet.com/ Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: A >signoff tariqas >(I'm not sure I understand why I got this message, and what signoff means, and bulk in the subject. Maybe I should not reply. Puzzled Lalla. From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Tue May 7 12:00:42 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA05344; Tue, 7 May 1996 16:37:15 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id QAA19551; Tue, 7 May 1996 16:01:02 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from cypher.turbonet.com by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id QAA19535; Tue, 7 May 1996 16:00:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [204.188.48.229] by cypher.turbonet.com (NTMail 3.01.03) id ia057806; Tue, 7 May 1996 13:00:43 +0100 X-Sender: Well333@turbonet.com (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: tariqas@facteur.std.com From: Well333@turbonet.com (Jacquie Weller) Subject: Re: Maryam Jameela Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 13:00:42 +0100 Message-Id: <20004313409906@turbonet.com> X-Info: Visit http:// www.TurboNet.com/ Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: > > >On Sun, 5 May 1996, Jawad Qureshi wrote: >> >>Salamz, >> >>> Was it the news of the death of Maryam >>> Jameela? >> >>Her death? I did not hear of this. In fact, I recently read a few >>articles by her, and a few that concerned her. >> >>I would appreciate if you could tell me when you heard that she passed away. >> >>Salamz, >>Jawad. >> >Dear Jawad & Friends in Tariqas, > >I am sorry if my previous post gave a false hint about Maryam >Jameela's death. I've tried to find more information >about her, especially about her recent writings. Alas, the >answers seem elusive at the moment. I also tried to find the >elusive _Periodica Islamica_ (hmm...published in Malaysia). >Hopefully I hit the jackpot some other days. > >I have scanned the catalogs from few libraries around the world. >Most university libraries have Maryam's book (one or two) ... but ... >of all the universities, I was suprised and somewhat stunned, >to find that Temple University (where the 'great' Islamic >thinkers of present day associated with) doesn't have a single >book by Maryam Jameelah. > >Her books might be at the low end of academic spectrum, >but have done wonders to the souls of few Muslims (mine included). > >Salam -Maaruf- > >Books by Maryam Jameelah (Margaret Marcus b.1934- ) >(catalogs of University of Pennsylvania, Franklin) >--------------------------------------------------- > >1. Ahmad Khalil; the biography of a Palestinian Arab refugee (1968) >Published: Lahore, Mohammad Yusuf Khan. Description: xiii, 146 p. 19 cm. > >2. Correspondence between Maulana Maudoodi and Maryam Jameela (1969) >Author: Maudoodi, Syed Abul `Ala, 1903-1979. >Published: Lahore, Mohammad Yusuf Khan, <1969>. > Description: iii, 88 p. (p. 84-88 advertisements). 22 cm. > > 3. Islam and Western society : a refutation of the modern way of > life / by Maryam Jameelah. > Edition: 1st ed. > Published: Lahore : Mohammad Yusuf Khan, 1976. > Description: xii, 328 p., <1> leaf of plate : ill. ; 23 cm. > Subjects (use s=): > Islam--20th century > Civilization, Modern--20th century > Civilization, Occidental > > 4. Islam in theory and practice > Published: Lahore, Mohammad Yusuf Khan, 1967. > Description: viii, 308 p. port. 22 cm. > Subjects (use s=): > Islam--Apologetic works > Notes: Bibliography: p. 295-304. > > 5. Islam versus Ahl al-Kitab, past and present / by Maryam Jameelah > Edition: 1st ed. > Published: Lahore, Mohammad Yusuf Khan, 1968. > Description: xxvii, 320 p. 22 cm. > Subjects (use s=): > Islam--Apologetic works > Judaism--Controversial literature > Christianity--Controversial literature > > 6. Islam versus the West / by Maryam Jameelah. > Edition: <2d ed., rev. and enl.>. > Published: Lahore, Mohammad Yusuf Khan, <1968>. > Description: 128 p. 19 cm. > Subjects (use s=): > Islam--Relations > Islam--20th century > Notes: Bibliography: p. <127>-128. > > 7. Western civilization condemned by itself, a comprehensive > study of moral retrogression and its consequences. / > Selected, arranged, and edited by Maryam Jameelah. > Edition: <1st ed.>. > Published: Lahore, Mohammad Yusuf Khan, <1970-71>. > Description: 2 v. illus. 23 cm. > Subjects (use s=): > Civilization, Occidental--History--Sources. > Notes: Review of the author's other works: v. 1, p. <439>-443. > Includes bibliographical references. > > 8. Westernization and human welfare / . > Published: Delhi, India : Crescent Pub. Co., <1982?> > Description: 95 p. ; 23 cm. > Subjects (use s=): > Civilization, Occidental > Civilization, Modern--Miscellanea. > > 9. Who is Maudoodi? by Maryam Jameelah. > Edition: <1st ed.> > Published: Lahore, Mohammad Yusuf Khan <1973> > Description: 68 p. 22 cm. > Subjects (use s=): > Maudoodi, Syed Abul `Ala, 1903-1979. > Notes: Includes excerpts from Maudoodi's speeches. > Includes bibliographical references. > Other contributors: > Maudoodi, Syed Abul `Ala, 1903-1979. >---- Could I ask respectfully as a new mureed, Who is Maryam Jameelah? From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Tue May 7 22:08:55 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA01509; Tue, 7 May 1996 18:46:38 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id SAA12000; Tue, 7 May 1996 18:11:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id SAA11996; Tue, 7 May 1996 18:11:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA09703; Tue, 7 May 1996 18:08:55 -0400 Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 18:08:55 -0400 (EDT) From: Steve H Rose Subject: Re: Rumi pronounciation (fwd) To: tariqas@world.std.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: Date: Tue, 07 May 1996 08:49:16 +0000 From: Jim Henry Organization: University of Tennessee at Chattanooga 423-755-4398 X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: informe@best.com, tariqas@facteur.std.com Subject: Re: Rumi pronounciation References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mevlana Jelaladin Rumi is generally Rumi's full name. Mevlana is a title, similar to "lord" or "master" or "teacher" Mev rhymes with the Bev in Beverly -lana sounds similar to the woman's name Lonna, rhymes with Donna moderate accent on the -la- Jelalladin is a transliteration of a Persian or Arabic name that indicates connection to Allah or religion Jel as in Jello -lall- as in -pal- in appalling -adin is like uh-deen soft accents on the -lall- and the -deen Rumi means he was from Rum (as Israeli means from Israel or Iraqi ... ) Rum is pronounced liek "room", so Rumi = "roomie", as in roommate. Rum, by the way is now central Turkey. I believe Rum has a connection to what we know as Rome. I make up that the Persins called people to the East of them "Rumis" because the Roman Empire was the empire to the West. Good luck. JIM More knowledgeable people, plese correct me. From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Wed May 8 05:05:18 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA19857; Tue, 7 May 1996 19:14:53 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id SAA18804; Tue, 7 May 1996 18:46:29 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id SAA18796; Tue, 7 May 1996 18:46:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from hisar.cc.boun.edu.tr by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA24011; Tue, 7 May 1996 18:44:18 -0400 Received: by hisar.cc.boun.edu.tr (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA14761; Wed, 8 May 1996 01:05:19 -0400 Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 01:05:18 -0400 (EDT) From: Zafer Barutcuoglu X-Sender: barutcuo@hisar.cc.boun.edu.tr To: Tariqas List Subject: Reply quotes Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: A Peace be with you all. I am overly impressed and satisfied with the context and scope of the postings to Tariqas, thank you all, and I have been trying to keep every single posting I receive, as it forms a very interesting archive and one never knows when one will need a detail. Yet, as discussions flourish, because of a general habit of including the old message in the reply, postings reach immense sizes. Especially when I'm away from the net for more than a few days, I cannot even dare read my mail. On this problem, I might have to leave Tariqas, as it paralyzes all my net account. If it's not crucial, I kindly ask everybody not to fully quote old messages, especially if they are very long. Much thanks in advance. May we all reach Harmony. //\ 0-0 +---oOO (_) OOo---------------------------------------------------------+ | - Zafer Barutcuoglu | | Undergradute at Bogazici University Mathematics Department | | E-mail: barutcuo@boun.edu.tr | | Voice : +90 (212) 270 5345 | +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+ From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Tue May 7 23:19:59 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA23516; Tue, 7 May 1996 19:22:40 -0400 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id TAA25203; Tue, 7 May 1996 19:22:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from europe.std.com (europe-e.std.com) by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA23080; Tue, 7 May 1996 19:21:42 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id TAA24723; Tue, 7 May 1996 19:19:59 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 19:19:59 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199605072319.TAA24723@europe.std.com> X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f To: tariqas-approval@world.std.com From: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Subject: BOUNCE tariqas@world.std.com: Admin request Status: RO X-Status: >From habib@world.std.com Tue May 7 19:19:56 1996 Return-Path: Received: from ast1.spa.umn.edu by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id TAA24713; Tue, 7 May 1996 19:19:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 150.208.77.212 ([150.208.77.212]) by ast1.spa.umn.edu (8.7.1/8.6.9) with SMTP id SAA11153 for ; Tue, 7 May 1996 18:19:37 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <31179016.4A83@ast1.spa.umn.edu> Date: Tue, 06 Feb 1996 18:29:58 +0100 From: Jim Norton X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0JavaB1 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: tariqas@europe.std.com Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q??= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit unsubscribe tariqas From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Tue May 7 23:18:12 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA23570; Tue, 7 May 1996 19:22:48 -0400 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id TAA25230; Tue, 7 May 1996 19:22:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA21592; Tue, 7 May 1996 19:18:13 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id TAA24546; Tue, 7 May 1996 19:18:12 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 19:18:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199605072318.TAA24546@europe.std.com> X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f To: tariqas-approval@world.std.com From: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Subject: BOUNCE tariqas@world.std.com: Non-member submission from [International Association of Sufism ] Status: RO X-Status: >From habib@world.std.com Tue May 7 19:18:10 1996 Return-Path: Received: from shellx.best.com by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id TAA24537; Tue, 7 May 1996 19:18:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: (ias@localhost) by shellx.best.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id QAA21381; Tue, 7 May 1996 16:06:15 -0700 Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 16:06:15 -0700 From: International Association of Sufism Message-Id: <199605072306.QAA21381@shellx.best.com> To: tariqas@europe.std.com Subject: Re: Rumi References: In-Reply-To: Precedence: Normal X-Loop: mail@ias.org This message is sent to you as an automatic response of your email to the address info@ias.org. If the auto-response message does not cover your request, please send your request to ias@ias.org. -About the International Association of Sufism- The International Association of Sufism (IAS), a non-profit organization, was established in the U.S. in 1983. Teachers, students and scholars of all schools of Sufism are invited to join in the common purpose of seeking greater knowledge, mutual understanding, and the dissemination of Sufi principles.

The goal of IAS is fourfold: - to introduce and educate people about Sufism in all its varied forms, - to make known the interrelation between Sufi principles and scientific principles, - to open lines of communication and expression between the different schools of Sufism, and - to preserve and advance the study and goals of Sufism. To realize these goals, IAS has developed a network of translators and scholars fluent in English, Persian, Arabic, French, Spanish and German. These scholars are familiar with Sufi expression and are dedicated to the accurate translation of the complex and often elusive Sufi texts. To our knowledge, this is the first association to be formed which enables Sufis from all nations and traditions to establish relations and correspond with one another. Our hope is that this effort will serve to make Sufism known to the world for what it is: a universal knowledge which is open to all who choose to live in peace and harmony. You are invited to take part in IAS and learn more about Sufi principles and activities. -About Sufism- The following explanation of Sufism, the origin of the school of Sufism, and the origin of the word 'Tasawouf', Sufism, are taken from the introduction to the book PRINCIPLES OF SUFISM by Dr. Nahid Angha. The pursuit of truth is the quest for a particular goal, a quest pursued no matter how difficult the path--and for the most important truths, the way may be long and arduous indeed. 'Tasawouf', or Sufism, is the esoteric school of Islam, founded on the pursuit of spiritual truth as a definite goal to attain: the truth of understanding reality as it truly is, as knowledge, and so achieving 'ma'arefat'. In 'Tasawouf' when we speak of understanding or cognition we refer to that perfect self-understanding that leads to the understanding of the Divine. This very logical principle is based on a typically succinct saying of Prophet Mohammad: "Whoever knows oneself, knows one's Lord." The origins of 'Tasawouf' can be traced to the heart of Islam in the time of the Prophet, whose teachings attracted a group of scholars who came to be called "ahle suffe", the People of Suffe, from their practice of sitting at the platform of the mosque of the Prophet in Medina. There they engaged in discussions concerning the reality of Being, and in search of the inner path they devoted themselves to spiritual purification and meditation. The ahle suffe believed that it was the unique human right and privilege to be able to find the way towards understanding the reality of the Divine. As the cognitive tools of ordinary mental logic are limited in their ability to comprehend such a great and all-embracing subject, disputation and all discussions based on language alone cannot open any door to understanding such reality. Instead, such a path of understanding necessitates spiritual striving, the understanding and the knowledge of the heart, in its quest to realize the existence of the Divine. Such an approach separates Sufis from philosophers, and indeed from any other group of scholars whose knowledge is founded upon traditions, words, assumptions, and the imagination instead of the actual and direct understanding of all that exists. Thus the path of Sufis, of cognizant Moslems, was separate from that of the traditional understanding. They became the people of the 'tarigh', or the way; their particular goal was to understand and introduce the esoteric aspect of Islam, as opposed to the exoteric public elements of this universal religion. The principles of Sufism are all based upon the rules and teachings of the Koran and the instructions of the Prophet. To a Sufi there is no gulf of separation between all of Being, the Creator, and His creations. That the multitude cannot perceive this fundamental unity is the result of the impurity of 'nafs' and the limitations of the material and physical tools that mankind possesses. If man were free from the limitations of matter, then he would surely witness this immense and eternal unity of Being. But there is a chance for mankind to ascend to such a level of understanding, a pathway that can be followed through purification and meditation to the realization of its achievement. When one's heart is purified, the manifestations of the Divine is reflected in the mirror of the heart. Only then may man ascend from the level of his animal nature to the level of the true human being. Since all the principles that underlie the instructions of Sufis are based on the Koran, it is impossible to relate Sufism to any religion outside of Islam. Yet the search for true understanding and abstract knowledge of reality is a universal quest. As long as humanity endures, so too will the search for such understanding continue. History shows us that every nation and religion has its own way of expressing the universal spiritual quest. -The Origin of the School of Sufism- In order to understand Sufism and its origin we must briefly touch on the elements of studies that have been undertaken in the hope of understanding Sufism, and so examine the accuracy of the conclusions that scholars have drawn. To do so, the reader should keep in mind a few important caveats while studying the information that has been collected concerning Sufism. Sometimes the lack of truly thorough research, or the difficulties inherent in translating from one language to another, have led to confusion instead of enlightenment. As a result, Sufism is often only half understood, with that understanding further clouded by interpretations and the biases of commentators. These limitations have made tracing the road to Sufism's origin difficult, even for accomplished scholars. Even should the scholar choose his sources very carefully, the barrier of language yet remains, an important factor hindering the passage of truth. There have been many debates concerning the origin of Sufism and how this school of inner knowledge was established. In seeking the spiritual and intellectual ancestry of Sufism, some have looked toward Greek philosophy in general and Platonism especially, some to the Hermetic Christianity of the gnostics of the late Roman Empire, and others to Buddhism or Yogism. But Sufism, as it has been practiced since its birth, is quite a different school of belief, practice, and goal than any of these pre-existing ways of thinking. Even though Sufism as the school of spiritual knowledge based on self cognition as the door toward understanding the realities of Being is a school open to all humanity, but it was born out of Islam and is the heir to the treasures of knowledge from the sacred heart of the Prophet Mohammad, and has practiced its way accordingly. The actual birth of Sufism as a way of thought and practice is therefore subsequent to the advent of Islam. The history of the origin of Sufism records that during the lifetime of the Prophet Mohammad, fifteen centuries ago, there was a group of pious individuals from different nations who, guided by the Laws of Islam, sought for the direct experience of the Divine. Companions of the Prophet, they were people of principles practicing certain disciplines and meditations for the sake of purification, the realization of Divine love, and the understanding of reality. They were the Lovers of God who sought union with Him through losing the limited self in His Divinity ('fana'), and remaining alive in that Reality ('bagha'). These individuals met on the platform, or suffe, of the mosque where Prophet Mohammad used to pray in Medina, Arabia. They would meet there almost everyday to discuss the ways to inner knowledge, the truths of revelation, and the meanings of the verses of the Koran. Thus the platform of that mosque in Medina became the first gathering place of one of the most influential groups in the history of mankind's spiritual civilization. They were called ahle suffe, the People of the Platform. These individuals cultivated the seed of a school of spiritual practice based on knowledge of the self, and thus free of the trappings of tradition and superstition, a knowledge of the inner heart apart from the customary beliefs of their contemporary society as well as those of future civilizations. It is from this group that all the schools of Sufism that have ever existed owe their origin, for by pursuing the path of unsullied inner knowledge they were the founders of Sufism, and the binding link between its subsequent developments. Among the most famous were: Salman Farsi, Ammar Yasser, Balla'al, and Abdullah Masoud; some historians have added Oveyse Gharani to this list as well. Avoiding proselytizing among the multitude, their gatherings were held in private, open only to true seekers of reality. Instead of preaching in public, these pious individuals were searchers for truth, not performers of rhetoric. After the Prophet passed away, each of the people of suffe returned to his homeland to instruct students eager to follow upon the path of inner knowledge. There they became the great missionaries of Islam. History shows that within a century or two their style of self understanding and discipline were introduced by their students to nations as diverse and widely separated as Persia, India, Indonesia, Syria, Egypt, Mesopotamia, and North Africa. Their teachings were based on individual understanding and direct experience, not just on particular texts or rote learning. In this manner their fundamental teachings have been preserved in their style up to the present, instead of withering away into the empty formulas of scholasticism. Through this process of diffusion, different schools and orders of Sufism gradually emerged from the single original group of suffe at Medina. Their practices differ from one another in emphasis and doctrine, but all legitimate Sufi schools trace their ultimate origins back to the original group of the Prophet's spiritual disciples. -The Origin of the Word 'Tasawouf', Sufism- A majority of scholars believe that the word 'Tasawouf' derives from the word "suf", which means wool. This assumption is based on a story told regarding the reason for wearing woolen garments by the pious people of the first century of Islam. It has been narrated that the Prophet and faithful Moslems wore garments of wool to denote their detachment from the world and simplicity in living. Within a century after the emergence of Islam, Arabs, who were mainly desert peoples, had conquered great empires such as Persia and Egypt. These conquering Arabs surrounded themselves with a luxury hitherto unknown to them in their spartan desert lives. The more pious individuals of the Moslem community feared that the message of Islam was in danger of being completely lost through the decadent example of these Arab conquerors who professed to spread the Prophet's words. Looking back to the severe simplicity of Islam's beginnings, and remembering those early pious Moslems of Medina, they decided to clothe themselves in rough wool as a gesture of protest against the profligacies of their leaders. Guarding themselves against the temptations of luxury, they set themselves apart from the lower material life. These pious ones performed fasting, mortification, and denied themselves the pleasures of material life to the greatest extent possible. Wearing wool thus became a part of the discipline connected to Sufism. But even though Sufis wore suf, wool, from the very beginning of Islam, the word "Sufism", according to Arab grammar, is not a derivative of the word suf, and not whoever wears suf is a Sufi. Or as Sheikh Saadi, a great Persian poet and sage said: The goal of the people of the inner path is not their outer garments Serve the King yet remain a Sufi Other scholars believe that the word "Sufi" derives from the word "sufateh", the name of a thin plant. Sufis were usually thin because of extreme mortification and fasting. Thus they were likened to sufateh as symbol for their emaciation. But, as in the preceding theory, this assumption is not linguistically or grammatically correct. Another group of scholars claim that the word "Sufism" is a derivative from the Greek word "Soph", meaning wisdom or knowledge. But this assumption does not seem right either. Aside from the different spellings, Sufis, and especially the Sufis of the first few centuries, denied that philosophy could be a fitting tool for understanding reality, since through its reliance on verbal descriptions and limited reasoning philosophy would actually obscure rather than reveal the truth or reality. For example, Rumi says: Those who only reason have wooden legs And wooden legs give an unsteady gait. Or Sanai, another great Sufi (12th century) says: Do not call philosophy religion And do not call the ignorant wise. Even though Sufis were learned individuals, still we cannot equate "Sufism" with "philosophy" and "Sufi" with "philosopher", for their foundations of knowledge and practices were very different. And as well, linguistics reveals that this attempted derivation is mistaken. Unfortunately, this mistake has perpetuated itself throughout much of the research regarding the origin of the word "Sufism", recurring over and over again. The reason lies in the unfamiliarity of the researchers not only with the beliefs and mentality of the Sufis, but also with the nuances of the Arabic language. There is also yet another idea regarding the word Sufism. It seems that before the time of the Prophet Mohammad there was a group of very pious people who worked as the servants of the Kaaba. These people were called "Sufe". Their practices included mortification and the avoidance of any physical pleasures. Some assume that the word "Sufism" is a derivative from the word "Sufe", but this assumption does not bear close examination, as the rules of Arabic grammar as well as the different styles of the practice make its fallacy evident. Some Sufis have practiced mortification, but this discipline has not been a general rule in Sufism, while others disapprove of any kind of mortification. Etymologically, "Sufi" is not a derivative of the word Sufe; historically Sufis were a group of Moslem intellectuals forming a School of an inner path based on the instructions of the Prophet Mohammad and the teachings of the Koran. Necessarily, this school had to be established after the advent of Islam and not before. Even though many efforts have been made to discover the origin of the word, they do not give us a clear understanding about the word 'Tasawouf'. It would seem that understanding the origin of Sufism, either the school or the word it denotes, is as mysterious as the whole practice of the Sufis. There are also other explanations about Sufism which are all literary descriptions based on the practices of the Sufis. I will mention some as follows: Sufism is piety and the purifying of the heart; it is avoiding bad temper and base qualities; it is remembering God; it is an essence without form; it is annihilation in the Almighty; it is secret; it is inner purity; it is closeness to reality; it is eternal life. The Sufi is a person of principles; or he is absent from himself and present with God. Each one of these descriptions refers to a discipline and practice performed by Sufis; none embraces all the essence of Sufism. Our examination of the various attempts to account for the origin of the word Sufism shows the limitations of traditional scholarly inquiry when it attempts to approach the Divine. This reflects the greater difficulty of academic research in attempting to explain a way of understanding that transcends the limits of human knowledge. It would seem that despite the efforts of many scholars, we come to the understanding that actually no one knows the origin of the word 'Tasawouf'--and , it might be added, the full reality of Sufism as well. Just as Sufism cannot be explained in terms of earlier gnostic schools, so it appears that Sufism is not a word derived from a pre-existing root word; the school of Sufism is not an explanation of a practice. And its believers are those who have mastered profound and mysterious principles introduced by Islam, principles never classified before. The attempt of this brief work is to outline some of the doctrines that are essential to Sufism and most especially those principles which, when practiced and perfected, can make an individual cognizant in the realm of inner traveling. Sufism is best understood when we learn about it through the explanation of one of the most influential figures among Sufis. He reveals the mystery of the word Sufism ('Tasawouf') as well as introducing those principles which make a seeker a Sufi. This teacher, Imam Ali, was the cousin and the son-in-law of the Prophet Mohammad. Historians have recorded that he was the only child born in the House of God, Kaaba. In the same house, he died with equal grace and dignity. Amir-al-Moumenin Ali was the first man who believed in Islam. He was the heir of the heritage of the prophecy whose guidance throughout the fifteen centuries of the life of Sufism has been the greatest inspiration for many. It has been narrated from the Prophet who said, "I am the City of Knowledge and Ali is the Gate." To Moslems, he is the King of the believers; to the Sufis he is call Valli, the Guide. He is the Light of the way, without which the realization of reality would be an impossible task. Sufism is best described by the words of this mysterious teacher. It is narrated from Amir-al-Moumenin Ali (as well as Imam Sadegh, his grandson) who said that 'Tasawouf' is an acronym of four letters. ('Tasawouf' is a four letter word: TSVF and pronounced 'Tasawouf' in its original language.) Each letter holds a secret representing one stage or quality of a Sufi. Together the word TSVF makes the twelve Principles; one who perfects these principles is a Sufi. T, the first letter stands for three practices of 'Tark' (abandonment); 'Tubeh' (repentance); and 'Tugha' (virtue) S, the second letter of the word stands for another three qualities to be perfected by a 'salek': 'Sabr' (patience); 'Sedgh' (truthfulness and honesty); and 'Safa' (purity). V, the third letter stands for: 'Vud' (love); 'Verd' ('Zekr' and remembrance); and 'Vafa'a' (faithfulness). F, the final letter, represents another three qualifications: 'Fard' (solitude); 'Faghr' (poverty); and 'Fana' (annihilation). During a life of learning, practicing, and teaching Sufism under the guidance and instruction of one of the greatest Sufi Masters of all time, Moulana Shah Maghsoud, my physical and spiritual father, I came to the realization that the door toward knowledge may open to afford a glimpse or two of reality to a seeker, but without mastering these twelve principles, such understanding will not remain clear for long. After passing through many 'chelleh', I discovered that each stage of these disciplines opens up a new door to the eternal graceful knowledge, and so reveals a new secret. It is only through perfecting these stages that the seeker can break the boundary of the limited self and remain not a solitary drop from the ocean of life, but become one with the ocean itself and experience the meaning of the magnificent Message of the 'la illaha illa Allah': that there is no limited self, everything is the Existence, the Eternal, God, Allah. It is then that Existence after complete annihilation of the Sufi remains as it truly is, without cover, without secret. When the curtain of illusion fell there was only One, no one but God. Many times I have been asked what exactly each practice means and what are the appropriate manners, disciplines, and qualities that a 'salek' must have in order to attain mastery and so become a part of this spiritual path. Therefore, in each chapter I have explained the meaning of each practice and related disciplines and manners. Many times I have referred to the wisdom of the ancient Sufis, since without the guidance of the teachers no path can be successfully traversed. Each principle directs the individual towards the path of recognition of the essence within, the essence hidden behind the veils of change and the curtains of uncertainty. The aim of any intelligent human being should be found in the foundation of the truth of stable tranquillity and undisturbed survival, the goal of the final quest. To achieve such a goal one must free oneself from the imprisonment of the boundary of change and find a way to return to one's essential being and find the source of the infinite knowledge within. It is only that pure essence of the self that is made manifest in the book of Being, where each word reveals a secret and every letter is engraved upon the face of Being, illuminating the image of the perfect human. As movements do not represent life, likewise change is not the being of existence, and whosoever stands on his feet is not necessarily the "Perfect Human", the Perfect Human who stands upon the heights of Sufism. I have attempted to explain each Principle as completely as the limitation of words and space permits; the rest depends upon you who have to search within yourself. You are the subject of the Divine Book, ask for yourself. It is you, whom you are looking for. Nahid Angha February 4th, 1991 From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Tue May 7 23:51:21 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA25026; Tue, 7 May 1996 19:25:45 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id TAA21284; Tue, 7 May 1996 19:00:29 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from adeskgate.autodesk.com by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id TAA21240; Tue, 7 May 1996 19:00:14 -0400 (EDT) From: lisa.rapp@autodesk.com Received: from autodesk.autodesk.com by adeskgate.autodesk.com (8.6.12/SMI-5.3) with ESMTP id QAA16579; Tue, 7 May 1996 16:04:01 -0700 Received: from unix2cc.autodesk.com by autodesk.autodesk.com (8.6.8/4.4BSD) with ESMTP id PAA17065; Tue, 7 May 1996 15:59:41 -0700 Received: from smtpcc.autodesk.com by unix2cc.autodesk.com (8.6.5/4.4BSD) with SMTP id PAA03266; Tue, 7 May 1996 15:59:30 -0700 Received: from ccMail by smtpcc.autodesk.com (SMTPLINK V2.11.01) id AA831510248; Tue, 07 May 96 15:51:21 PST Date: Tue, 07 May 96 15:51:21 PST Message-Id: <9604078315.AA831510248@smtpcc.autodesk.com> To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Subject: Re[2]: Rumi Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: With the accent on the syllables in upper case letters: mev-LAA-na ja-LAAL-ud-DEEN ROOM-ee ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: Rumi Author: tariqas@europe.std.com at smtpcc Date: 5/7/96 3:49 PM phonetic pronounciation: mev-laa-na ja-laal-ud-deen room-ee (Mevlana Jalaluddin Rumi). On Tue, 7 May 1996 informe@best.com wrote: > >Perhaps you can help me? I am preparing a presentation of Rumi's > >writings accompanied by my own photography. I want to be sure to > >pronounce his name correctly. Can you tell me how? Thank you. > >Jim Miller > > As-salaam alaikum, > > Let me forward your note to the Tariqas mailing list, and perhaps they can > advise you. > > Salaams, > > Hamza > > From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Tue May 7 23:23:34 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA25785; Tue, 7 May 1996 19:27:03 -0400 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id TAA25862; Tue, 7 May 1996 19:27:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA23977; Tue, 7 May 1996 19:23:35 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id TAA25330; Tue, 7 May 1996 19:23:34 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 19:23:34 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199605072323.TAA25330@europe.std.com> X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f To: tariqas-approval@world.std.com From: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Subject: BOUNCE tariqas@world.std.com: Non-member submission from [mhermans@mail.sdsu.edu (marcia hermansen)] Status: RO X-Status: >From habib@world.std.com Tue May 7 19:23:31 1996 Return-Path: Received: from mail.sdsu.edu by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id TAA25306; Tue, 7 May 1996 19:23:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [130.191.21.52] ([130.191.21.52]) by mail.sdsu.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.4) with SMTP id QAA07147 for ; Tue, 7 May 1996 16:23:20 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 15:36:34 -0800 To: tariqas@europe.std.com From: mhermans@mail.sdsu.edu (marcia hermansen) Subject: Re: Maryam Jameela In reply to the question, who is Maryam Jameelah? one might recommend her own book, Memoirs of Childhood and Youth in America :The Story of One Western Convert's Quest for Truth (1945-1962). She has written, I believe, two further autobiographical sequels. Maryam Jameelah came from a reform Jewish family in New York, became interested in Arab culture and the plight of the Palestinians during the 1950's and began corresponding with Abu al-A'la Maududi of the Jama'at-e-Islami, an anti-Sufi reformist movement in Pakistan. She emigrated to Pakistan at his invitation and ultimately settled there, beginning her writing career with various tracts critical of the decadence of Western civilization. etc. While interest in Jameelah might seem initially to be outside of the focus of this group, her autobiographical writingscontain a remarkable amount of self-disclosure regarding her struggle to cut through many pretentions of the culture surrounding her early life and her intense search for truth, according to her understanding. While she generally functioned as an apologist for conservative forces in the Muslim world who are associated with antipathy for Sufism, and generated somewhat of a cottage industry in producing West-bashing publications, Jameelah has since the 80's moved towards a sympathy to Sufism, particularly the writings of Seyyed Hossein Nasr, by her own admission feeling dissastisfied with the "dryness" of the Wahhabi/Jama'at-e-Islami approach to Islam. I am not aware of her activities/situation after 1993. wa-s-salam, Marcia Hermansen From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Tue May 7 21:55:50 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA00872; Tue, 7 May 1996 19:38:03 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id RAA09465; Tue, 7 May 1996 17:56:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from relay3.jaring.my by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id RAA09381; Tue, 7 May 1996 17:56:02 -0400 (EDT) From: maarof@pc.jaring.my Received: from 161.142.239.156 (j14.brf47.jaring.my [161.142.239.156]) by relay3.jaring.my (8.7.1/8.7.1) with SMTP id FAA21984 for ; Wed, 8 May 1996 05:55:50 +0800 (MYT) Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 05:55:50 +0800 (MYT) Message-Id: <199605072155.FAA21984@relay3.jaring.my> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Maryam Jameela To: tariqas@facteur.std.com In-Reply-To: <20004313409906@turbonet.com> X-Mailer: SPRY Mail Version: 04.00.06.17 Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: On Tue, 7 May 1996, Well333@turbonet.com (Jacquie Weller) wrote: >Could I ask respectfully as a new mureed, Who is Maryam Jameelah? > Honestly, to your question, I think only Maryam Jameelah will give us the TRUE answer. From what remember from my readings (ages ago it seemed) she was a Muslim convert back in 1960's. Her name then was Margaret Marcus. She's from Jewish family (a secular one, she wrote). Born in 1934, that will make her now in her sixties. She did mentioned about having a depression, and feel alienated by the American culture of the 50's and 60's. She admmired Maududi (Islamic scholar and thinker from Pakistan) and thought highly of him. Much of her articles (later compiled into books) are restatement or extension of Maududi's ideas. Correspondence between Maryam and Maududi (compiled into a book), I think is the best subject on Maryam Jameela, which to me, presented the inner voice of Maryam as a seeker of security in turbulence world of the sixties. That's much I know about Maryam. I'm still searching fo her more recent articles. Salam Maaruf From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Tue May 7 21:59:35 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA06666; Tue, 7 May 1996 19:51:33 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id SAA10356; Tue, 7 May 1996 18:01:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id SAA10344; Tue, 7 May 1996 18:01:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA03644; Tue, 7 May 1996 17:59:35 -0400 Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 17:59:35 -0400 (EDT) From: Steve H Rose Subject: Re: Insects To: tariqas@facteur.std.com In-Reply-To: <9605060340.AA01111@edumath.math.usu.edu> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: Assalamu alaikum. On Sun, 5 May 1996, Asim Jalis wrote: > Something I was thinking about which might seem to have the stench of > nitpicky rationalism and fiqh-ism about it but I will be imprudent > enough to ask anyway: how does one reconcile loving all of God's > creation with using pesticides to kill roaches? > > Asim > Not everyone does reconcile this. There are some people who don't/won't do that (both from the standpoint of not killing roaches and from the standpoint of not using pesticides). Other people, myself included, do these sorts of things when necessary, but feel bad about them -- and try to avoid them, Insh'Allah, by avoiding the conditions that make them necessary (i.e. keeping a clean house to minimize the infestation in the first place). This used to be a major issue for me -- I used to be a total vegetarian who literally would not kill a fly. Now, I kill flies and roaches when necessary, but try to avoid it when possible (e.g. by trapping flies in a glass and releasing it outside. There is another aspect to this all that I want to share. At some points in my life, it has apparently been necessary for my spiritual growth to do things which were opposed to my "principles." This has been the case for EVERY ONE of the things that I believed in (except, so far, for taking human life) -- including eating meat, killing insects, working for the military, owning a business etc. etc. etc. Apparently, I have needed to learn to be responsive, in the moment, to what God demands of me, rather than predetermining, based upon MY value system, what is right and wrong. Yours, Habib Rose From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Tue May 7 15:56:31 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA05751; Tue, 7 May 1996 20:54:32 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id UAA04754; Tue, 7 May 1996 20:30:48 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id UAA04738; Tue, 7 May 1996 20:30:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CYPHER.TURBONET.COM by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA22955; Tue, 7 May 1996 20:28:23 -0400 Received: from [204.188.48.220] by cypher.turbonet.com (NTMail 3.01.03) id da058061; Tue, 7 May 1996 16:56:31 +0100 X-Sender: Well333@turbonet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: tariqas@world.std.com From: Well333@turbonet.com (Jacquie Weller) Subject: Listening Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 16:56:31 +0100 Message-Id: <23563134410609@turbonet.com> X-Info: Visit http:// www.TurboNet.com/ Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: Enjoy the postings and information on Rumi. I need to listen more, and say less, because just because, no reason, because there doesn't have to be a reason. Me Lalla. From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Wed May 8 01:44:25 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA00458; Tue, 7 May 1996 21:46:27 -0400 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id VAA15584; Tue, 7 May 1996 21:46:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA28870; Tue, 7 May 1996 21:44:26 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id VAA15014; Tue, 7 May 1996 21:44:25 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 21:44:25 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199605080144.VAA15014@europe.std.com> X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f To: tariqas-approval@world.std.com From: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Subject: BOUNCE tariqas@world.std.com: Non-member submission from [mhermansen@sdsu.edu (marcia hermansen)] Status: RO X-Status: >From habib@world.std.com Tue May 7 21:44:23 1996 Return-Path: Received: from mail.sdsu.edu by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id VAA14985; Tue, 7 May 1996 21:44:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [130.191.21.45] ([130.191.21.45]) by mail.sdsu.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.4) with SMTP id SAA23760 for ; Tue, 7 May 1996 18:44:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: mhermans@mail.sdsu.edu Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 18:47:26 -0800 To: tariqas@europe.std.com From: mhermansen@sdsu.edu (marcia hermansen) Subject: Re: Has anyone read Dr. Annemarie Schimmel's Address Dear Morteza, My friend in Germany confirmed that you can write to Prof Schimmel at the Orientalisches Seminar, Bonn University Regina Pacis Weg 7 53113 Bonn Germany Khuda Hafiz, M. Hermansen From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Tue May 7 17:47:15 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA11798; Tue, 7 May 1996 22:08:52 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id VAA15819; Tue, 7 May 1996 21:47:31 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from cypher.turbonet.com by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id VAA15795; Tue, 7 May 1996 21:47:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [204.188.48.219] by cypher.turbonet.com (NTMail 3.01.03) id wa058080; Tue, 7 May 1996 18:47:15 +0100 X-Sender: Well333@turbonet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: tariqas@facteur.std.com, maarof@pc.jaring.my From: Well333@turbonet.com (Jacquie Weller) Subject: Thankyou Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 18:47:15 +0100 Message-Id: <01471554810889@turbonet.com> X-Info: Visit http:// www.TurboNet.com/ Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: Thankyou for giving me the information on Maryam. Hope you have a nice day. Lalla. From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Tue May 7 20:47:04 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA14742; Wed, 8 May 1996 01:01:44 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id AAA15626; Wed, 8 May 1996 00:48:52 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id AAA15618; Wed, 8 May 1996 00:48:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CYPHER.TURBONET.COM by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA09594; Wed, 8 May 1996 00:47:21 -0400 Received: from [204.188.48.215] by cypher.turbonet.com (NTMail 3.01.03) id ea058140; Tue, 7 May 1996 21:47:04 +0100 X-Sender: Well333@turbonet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: tariqas@world.std.com From: Well333@turbonet.com (Jacquie Weller) Subject: rules? Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 21:47:04 +0100 Message-Id: <04470493711368@turbonet.com> X-Info: Visit http:// www.TurboNet.com/ Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: A Today I was taken off the wined heart, I think, because I'm not getting any postings. If I broke a rule or something, or offended anyone I don't know what it is. In an introduction to myself, I said I had a blank learning experience. I did not mean vulgarity. But I guess I immplied it. I want to apologize but my messages keep getting sent back and not accepted, they say no recipient or something like that. Can anyone help me because I like this group and that group also. I am new to the e-mail and don't understand certain things. I feel kind of lousy also. Today is the anniversay of my significant other's death. I don't say this for pity. I just feel like it's a lousy day, and to be kicked out, makes me feel really abandoned, and guilty. From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Wed May 8 05:03:32 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA17787; Wed, 8 May 1996 01:07:09 -0400 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id BAA18456; Wed, 8 May 1996 01:07:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA15600; Wed, 8 May 1996 01:03:32 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id BAA17621; Wed, 8 May 1996 01:03:32 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 01:03:32 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199605080503.BAA17621@europe.std.com> X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f To: tariqas-approval@world.std.com From: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Subject: BOUNCE tariqas@world.std.com: Admin request Status: RO X-Status: >From habib@world.std.com Wed May 8 01:03:31 1996 Return-Path: Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id BAA17617; Wed, 8 May 1996 01:03:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from electra.cc.umanitoba.ca by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA13862; Wed, 8 May 1996 01:00:09 -0400 Received: from Campus.rrcc.mb.ca (net2031.rrcc.mb.ca [198.163.144.31]) by electra.cc.umanitoba.ca (8.7.1/8.7.1) with SMTP id AAA28246 for ; Wed, 8 May 1996 00:00:08 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19960508050006.00696dc4@post.rrcc.mb.ca> X-Sender: disensee@post.rrcc.mb.ca X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 08 May 1996 00:00:06 -0500 To: tariqas@world.std.com From: Dean Isensee Subject: unsubscribe unsubscribe __________________________ | Be Good, Do Good, Be One - | |________ Sant Kirpal Singh___| Dean Isensee From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Wed May 8 06:53:44 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA04705; Wed, 8 May 1996 02:55:27 -0400 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id CAA10569; Wed, 8 May 1996 02:55:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA04438; Wed, 8 May 1996 02:53:44 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id CAA10368; Wed, 8 May 1996 02:53:44 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 02:53:44 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199605080653.CAA10368@europe.std.com> X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f To: tariqas-approval@world.std.com From: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Subject: BOUNCE tariqas@world.std.com: Non-member submission from [Lbolat@aol.com] Status: RO X-Status: >From habib@world.std.com Wed May 8 02:53:43 1996 Return-Path: Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id CAA10360; Wed, 8 May 1996 02:53:42 -0400 (EDT) From: Lbolat@aol.com Received: from emout19.mail.aol.com (emout19.mx.aol.com) by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA03937; Wed, 8 May 1996 02:51:05 -0400 Received: by emout19.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id CAA25863; Wed, 8 May 1996 02:50:34 -0400 Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 02:50:34 -0400 Message-Id: <960508025031_109091271@emout19.mail.aol.com> To: tariqas@world.std.com Cc: soc-religion-islam@telerama.lm.com Subject: Turkish-Afghani Sufi Music Concert TURKISH AND AFGHANI MUSICIANS PERFORM SUFI AND FOLK MUSIC IN BERKELEY Sufi and folk musicians from both Afghanistan and Turkey will perform together at a joint concert at 8:00 on Saturday, May 18 at Berkeley Art Center in Berkeley. The program will feature two separate ensembles, one from each of these two countries. This rare concert from these two ancient cultures will feature well-known Afghani rebab and dotar player Aziz Herawi with his ensemble; and Turkish singer and saz player Latif Bolat and his 12 piece Sufi Music Ensemble. As a finale, the two groups will combine their talents to create a fusion sound of Turkish-Afghani folk music-a first-time world musical event! Turkey and Afghanistan, both located on the ancient Silk Road, share a long and friendly common history. Their cultures and social structures have many similar aspects, especially with respect to music. Yet, each nation has very distinctive musical instruments and musical traditions. Latif Bolat Sufi Music Ensemble features soloist Latif Bolat, accompanied by twelve very accomplished musicians playing traditional Turkish instruments and including a six piece women's choir. Latif Bolat is a native born Turkish musician who has lived and performed in the Bay Area for the past twelve years. One of the most well-known Turkish musicians in the U.S., he has toured and performed extensively from Vermont to Texas, West Virginia to Hawaii, presenting the original form of Turkish traditional music. Devotional Turkish Sufi music has its roots from as early as 12th century, originated from Mevlana Jelaleddin Rumi and Yunus Emre. The most important characteristic of this music is the trance quality, with its mesmerizing rhythm and devotional lyrics. "The Sound" Magazine says of Latif Bolats music: "The effect is very powerful, very soothing." Aziz Herawi, the Afghani dotar and rebab master, comes from the Southwestern Afghani city of Heart, a prominent stop on the famed "Silk Road" to China. He is also called "Aghasab" due to his direct descendancy in the lineage of the Prophet Mohammed. During the Russian invasion of Afghanistan in 1979, Mr.Herawi spent several years in the mountains lifting the spirits of the guerrilla forces with powerful playing. Peter Watrous from New York Times says of Aziz Herawi: "A raucous improvisatory performance that had the audience clapping along. Aziz Herawi's playing was about abandon and ecstasy, with intense sections of improvisation-always grounded in a galloping rhythm-giving way to delicate, airy moments, soon forgotten in a flurry of heated improvisation." Come and enjoy the beautiful music of Turkey and Afghanistan in this intimate setting-and bring along a friend! Time: Saturday, May 18th at 8PM, Donation: $12 Place: Berkeley Art Center, 1275 Walnut Street, at Live Oak Park. For further information: (510)482-4289 From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Wed May 8 10:18:44 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA23340; Wed, 8 May 1996 06:41:09 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id GAA22828; Wed, 8 May 1996 06:23:47 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id GAA22814; Wed, 8 May 1996 06:23:44 -0400 (EDT) From: informe@best.com Received: from blob.best.net by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA16368; Wed, 8 May 1996 06:19:09 -0400 Received: from [204.156.129.34] (informe.vip.best.com [204.156.129.34]) by blob.best.net (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id DAA16022; Wed, 8 May 1996 03:18:44 -0700 Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 03:18:44 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: Breathing technique Cc: electra@cup.portal.com, quist@batnet.com, EnneaMonth@aol.com Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: As-salaamu alaikum, I ran into this on the Net. Salaams, Hamza ------------------------------ How to Increase your Energy, Intelligence, Vitality, Endurance ... etc. Patrick Flanagan & Gael Crystal Flanagan A very simple exercise may lead to increased brain capacity and increased overall energy and well being. This exercise takes very little time, but the final results are truly remarkable. When Albert Einstein's brain was analyzed, the only difference between his brain and an ordinary person's brain was that Einstein's brain had a larger number of cells known as glial cells. This means that Einstein's brain was more vascular (had more blood flow) and this meant that his brain received more oxygen than most brains. The greater the blood flow to the brain, the greater the oxygenation, the greater the neural networks and the higher the intelligence. We can all increase our brain's vascularity. In 1974, I met a Sufi Master from Istanbul by the name of Hasan Shushud. He spent some time with me and taught a special breathing exercise that he said would lead to higher consciousness. His breathing exercise was very simple but it had powerful effects on the body and the mind. His exercise was to first breathe out all of the air from your lungs in three stages, emptying the top, middle and finally the lower lungs. The breath in from the bottom up, first filling the lower lungs, the middle lungs and finally the top portion. Then, hold your breath for as long as you can, until you have a desperate need for air. Then you repeat the exercise all over again. He told me to hold my breath this way for as long as I could over a period of thirty minutes. He told me to do this exercise every day as a form of meditation. I found that after several months, I could hold my breath for longer and longer periods of time. My hereditary asthma disappeared and I felt better and stronger. I had built a device that is known as a ballistic cardiometer. This device is able to plot the flow of blood throughout the body in a dynamic way. When I hooked myself up to the cardiometer and performed Hassan Shushud's exercise, the cardiometer showed that my blood flow increased significantly throughout my entire body and most especially the brain. At that point, I read a book by Dr. Glen Doman on how to increase the brain capacity in brain damaged children. Dr. Doman used a special technique called masking to increase blood flow to the brain. It seems that the brain needs blood and oxygen more than any other organ in the body. We have special sensing devices at the base of the skull. These devices measure the amount of carbon dioxide in the blood. If the level of carbon dioxide goes up too high, these sensors cause the arteries and blood vessels in the brain to dilate to twice their normal capacity. This causes more blood and oxygen to reach the brain. This "carotid reflex" keeps the arteries open for thirty minutes after the crisis has passed. Dr. Doman used this reflex to exercise the arteries and to get more blood to the brain. When we increase blood flow to the brain over a long period of time, the brain responds by growing more vascular and by increasing the glial cell numbers. In the process of masking, a mask or paper bag was held over the child's face. This forced the child to re-breath his own air for about one minute. This process increases the carbon dioxide in the blood and triggers the carotid reflex. Dr. Doman found that if masking were performed once every half hour, all day long, that within a short period of time the brain was able to create new circuitry that compensated for brain damage. I immediately realized that the effect of the Sufi exercise was to trigger the carotid reflex. By holding our breath, we were getting the same result as masking. Our research indicated that this process was good for the entire body. We also discovered that, when the carotid reflex was triggered, that our brains switched on a powerful 8 cycle per second alpha rhythm. If this simple reflex could heal a brain damaged child, what could it do for an adult with a "normal" brain? Make us all into Einstein's? One thing is certain, these techniques increase feelings of well being and have profound effects on our energy levels. If I am sleepy and need to "wake up" I either mask myself with a paper bag or hold my breath for as long as I can for several cycles. The effect on alertness and energy absolutely astounding! When I discussed my own research with Dr. Doman over the telephone, he told me that since he was a "senior citizen" he had started masking himself several times a day. He told me that the process is the only known way to exercise the arteries in the brain. The arteries expand and contract as a result of the process. He told me that this process would hopefully keep his arteries flexible and clean so that he would not have to suffer from "hardening of the arteries". One thing is certain, the process works. It has a profound effect on consciousness, it increases energy, it causes the generation of brain waves that are usually only seen in Zen masters. The process probably has a profound effect on generating beneficial brain peptides. Finally, it may cause our glial cells to increase in number and thus increase our own intelligence. From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Wed May 8 11:50:12 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA03214; Wed, 8 May 1996 08:12:37 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id HAA09622; Wed, 8 May 1996 07:54:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from soho.ios.com by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id HAA09598; Wed, 8 May 1996 07:54:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from LOCALNAME (ppp-59.ts-5.nyc.idt.net [169.132.97.203]) by soho.ios.com (8.6.12/IDT) with SMTP id HAA07680 for ; Wed, 8 May 1996 07:50:12 -0400 Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 07:50:12 -0400 Message-Id: <199605081150.HAA07680@soho.ios.com> X-Sender: kaleema@198.4.75.47 X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: tariqas@facteur.std.com From: "K.Ahmad" Subject: Re: Breathing technique Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: As-salaamu alaikum, In W D Begg's book The Holy Biography of Hazrat Khwaja Muinuddin Chishti, Chapter 11; 108 Sacred Sayings of Khwaja Muinuddin: #15. Concentration on the implication of drawing and discharging breath is a part of the seer's (Arif's) worship. Salaams, Kaleem From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Wed May 8 14:47:50 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA15125; Wed, 8 May 1996 11:13:58 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id KAA26729; Wed, 8 May 1996 10:45:52 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from WIZARD.COLORADO.EDU by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id KAA26711; Wed, 8 May 1996 10:45:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from granger.cusys.edu by WIZARD.COLORADO.EDU (PMDF #12158) id <01I4GGTK0ZUO8WYPHE@WIZARD.COLORADO.EDU>; Wed, 8 May 1996 08:46 GMT Date: Wed, 08 May 1996 08:47:50 -0600 From: Mike Granger Subject: Re: Breathing technique To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Message-Id: <2.2.16.19960508144750.220f18be@wizard.colorado.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: granger_m@wizard.colorado.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: At 03:18 AM 5/8/96 -0700, you wrote: >As-salaamu alaikum, > >I ran into this on the Net. > >Salaams, > >Hamza > >------------------------------ > > Ya Hamza, I certainly don't know enough about this stuff to comment on it intelligently. Of course, as you know, breathing technique is very much tied into the efectiveness of Dhikr. However, I would be very careful about suggesting (and I'm not saying that you are) that breathing technique alone is a way to advance spiritually. I'm a little curious about Shushud too. I know he wrote the "Masters" book, (which is not a translation of the Rashahat, but takes alot of it's material from it) but was he really a Shaykh? What is his lineage? Also, in regards to increased lung capacity, I've found since I took up swimming 2 years ago, that vigorous swimming done twice a week or more greatly increases your lung power. Sometimes after swimming, astagfirullah, I feel like superman. wa Salam, Abdassalam Granger >How to Increase your Energy, Intelligence, Vitality, Endurance ... etc. > >Patrick Flanagan & Gael Crystal Flanagan > >A very simple exercise may lead to increased brain capacity and increased >overall energy and well being. >This exercise takes very little time, but the final results are truly >remarkable. > >When Albert Einstein's brain was analyzed, the only difference between his >brain and an ordinary >person's brain was that Einstein's brain had a larger number of cells known >as glial cells. This means >that Einstein's brain was more vascular (had more blood flow) and this >meant that his brain received >more oxygen than most brains. The greater the blood flow to the brain, the >greater the oxygenation, the >greater the neural networks and the higher the intelligence. We can all >increase our brain's vascularity. > >In 1974, I met a Sufi Master from Istanbul by the name of Hasan Shushud. He >spent some time with me >and taught a special breathing exercise that he said would lead to higher >consciousness. His breathing >exercise was very simple but it had powerful effects on the body and the >mind. His exercise was to first >breathe out all of the air from your lungs in three stages, emptying the >top, middle and finally the lower >lungs. The breath in from the bottom up, first filling the lower lungs, the >middle lungs and finally the top >portion. Then, hold your breath for as long as you can, until you have a >desperate need for air. Then you >repeat the exercise all over again. He told me to hold my breath this way >for as long as I could over a >period of thirty minutes. He told me to do this exercise every day as a >form of meditation. > >I found that after several months, I could hold my breath for longer and >longer periods of time. My >hereditary asthma disappeared and I felt better and stronger. I had built a >device that is known as a >ballistic cardiometer. This device is able to plot the flow of blood >throughout the body in a dynamic way. >When I hooked myself up to the cardiometer and performed Hassan Shushud's >exercise, the cardiometer >showed that my blood flow increased significantly throughout my entire body >and most especially the >brain. > >At that point, I read a book by Dr. Glen Doman on how to increase the brain >capacity in brain damaged >children. Dr. Doman used a special technique called masking to increase >blood flow to the brain. It >seems that the brain needs blood and oxygen more than any other organ in >the body. We have special >sensing devices at the base of the skull. These devices measure the amount >of carbon dioxide in the >blood. If the level of carbon dioxide goes up too high, these sensors cause >the arteries and blood vessels >in the brain to dilate to twice their normal capacity. This causes more >blood and oxygen to reach the brain. >This "carotid reflex" keeps the arteries open for thirty minutes after the >crisis has passed. Dr. Doman >used this reflex to exercise the arteries and to get more blood to the >brain. When we increase blood flow >to the brain over a long period of time, the brain responds by growing more >vascular and by increasing >the glial cell numbers. In the process of masking, a mask or paper bag was >held over the child's face. >This forced the child to re-breath his own air for about one minute. This >process increases the carbon >dioxide in the blood and triggers the carotid reflex. Dr. Doman found that >if masking were performed once >every half hour, all day long, that within a short period of time the brain >was able to create new circuitry that compensated for brain damage. > >I immediately realized that the effect of the Sufi exercise was to trigger >the carotid reflex. By holding our >breath, we were getting the same result as masking. Our research indicated >that this process was good >for the entire body. We also discovered that, when the carotid reflex was >triggered, that our brains >switched on a powerful 8 cycle per second alpha rhythm. > >If this simple reflex could heal a brain damaged child, what could it do >for an adult with a "normal" brain? >Make us all into Einstein's? One thing is certain, these techniques >increase feelings of well being and >have profound effects on our energy levels. > >If I am sleepy and need to "wake up" I either mask myself with a paper bag >or hold my breath for as long >as I can for several cycles. The effect on alertness and energy absolutely >astounding! > >When I discussed my own research with Dr. Doman over the telephone, he told >me that since he was a >"senior citizen" he had started masking himself several times a day. He >told me that the process is the >only known way to exercise the arteries in the brain. The arteries expand >and contract as a result of the >process. He told me that this process would hopefully keep his arteries >flexible and clean so that he >would not have to suffer from "hardening of the arteries". > >One thing is certain, the process works. It has a profound effect on >consciousness, it increases energy, it >causes the generation of brain waves that are usually only seen in Zen >masters. The process probably >has a profound effect on generating beneficial brain peptides. Finally, it >may cause our glial cells to >increase in number and thus increase our own intelligence. > > > From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Wed May 8 16:05:00 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA24009; Wed, 8 May 1996 12:06:17 -0400 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id MAA20008; Wed, 8 May 1996 12:06:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA22522; Wed, 8 May 1996 12:05:01 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id MAA19628; Wed, 8 May 1996 12:05:00 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 12:05:00 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199605081605.MAA19628@europe.std.com> X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f To: tariqas-approval@world.std.com From: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Subject: BOUNCE tariqas@world.std.com: Admin request Status: RO X-Status: >From habib@world.std.com Wed May 8 12:04:59 1996 Return-Path: Received: from mail.sdsu.edu by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id MAA19602; Wed, 8 May 1996 12:04:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [130.191.21.45] ([130.191.21.45]) by mail.sdsu.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.4) with SMTP id JAA13847 for ; Wed, 8 May 1996 09:04:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: mhermans@mail.sdsu.edu (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 09:08:08 -0800 To: tariqas@europe.std.com From: mhermansen@sdsu.edu (marcia hermansen) Subject: subscribe subcribe tariqas Marcia Hermansen From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Wed May 8 16:06:38 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA17062; Wed, 8 May 1996 12:34:43 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id MAA20127; Wed, 8 May 1996 12:06:45 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from homer16.u.washington.edu by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id MAA20100; Wed, 8 May 1996 12:06:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost by homer16.u.washington.edu (5.65+UW96.04/UW-NDC Revision: 2.33 ) id AA99865; Wed, 8 May 96 09:06:39 -0700 Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 09:06:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Lilyan Kay To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Subject: Re: Breathing technique In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: salaams all Sorry I just sent my private post over the net! Lily From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Wed May 8 16:05:41 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA02842; Wed, 8 May 1996 12:59:19 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id MAA19866; Wed, 8 May 1996 12:05:54 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from homer16.u.washington.edu by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id MAA19832; Wed, 8 May 1996 12:05:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost by homer16.u.washington.edu (5.65+UW96.04/UW-NDC Revision: 2.33 ) id AA153345; Wed, 8 May 96 09:05:41 -0700 Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 09:05:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Lilyan Kay To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Subject: Re: Breathing technique In-Reply-To: <2.2.16.19960508144750.220f18be@wizard.colorado.edu> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: salaams Zeeny and good morning (noon there I guess) to you too. This is really scary - superman with an ouzi. Someone hide the steroids. love Lily On Wed, 8 May 1996, Mike Granger wrote: > At 03:18 AM 5/8/96 -0700, you wrote: > >As-salaamu alaikum, > > > >I ran into this on the Net. > > > >Salaams, > > > >Hamza > > > >------------------------------ > > > > > Ya Hamza, > > I certainly don't know enough about this stuff to comment on it intelligently. Of course, as you know, breathing technique is very much tied into the efectiveness of Dhikr. However, I would be very careful about suggesting (and I'm not saying that you are) that breathing technique alone is > a way to advance spiritually. I'm a little curious about Shushud too. I know he wrote the "Masters" book, (which is not a translation of the Rashahat, but takes alot of it's material from it) but was he really a Shaykh? What is his lineage? > > Also, in regards to increased lung capacity, I've found since I took up swimming 2 years ago, that vigorous swimming done twice a week or more greatly increases your lung power. Sometimes after swimming, astagfirullah, I feel like superman. > > wa Salam, > > Abdassalam Granger > > > >How to Increase your Energy, Intelligence, Vitality, Endurance ... etc. > > > >Patrick Flanagan & Gael Crystal Flanagan > > > >A very simple exercise may lead to increased brain capacity and increased > >overall energy and well being. > >This exercise takes very little time, but the final results are truly > >remarkable. > > > >When Albert Einstein's brain was analyzed, the only difference between his > >brain and an ordinary > >person's brain was that Einstein's brain had a larger number of cells known > >as glial cells. This means > >that Einstein's brain was more vascular (had more blood flow) and this > >meant that his brain received > >more oxygen than most brains. The greater the blood flow to the brain, the > >greater the oxygenation, the > >greater the neural networks and the higher the intelligence. We can all > >increase our brain's vascularity. > > > >In 1974, I met a Sufi Master from Istanbul by the name of Hasan Shushud. He > >spent some time with me > >and taught a special breathing exercise that he said would lead to higher > >consciousness. His breathing > >exercise was very simple but it had powerful effects on the body and the > >mind. His exercise was to first > >breathe out all of the air from your lungs in three stages, emptying the > >top, middle and finally the lower > >lungs. The breath in from the bottom up, first filling the lower lungs, the > >middle lungs and finally the top > >portion. Then, hold your breath for as long as you can, until you have a > >desperate need for air. Then you > >repeat the exercise all over again. He told me to hold my breath this way > >for as long as I could over a > >period of thirty minutes. He told me to do this exercise every day as a > >form of meditation. > > > >I found that after several months, I could hold my breath for longer and > >longer periods of time. My > >hereditary asthma disappeared and I felt better and stronger. I had built a > >device that is known as a > >ballistic cardiometer. This device is able to plot the flow of blood > >throughout the body in a dynamic way. > >When I hooked myself up to the cardiometer and performed Hassan Shushud's > >exercise, the cardiometer > >showed that my blood flow increased significantly throughout my entire body > >and most especially the > >brain. > > > >At that point, I read a book by Dr. Glen Doman on how to increase the brain > >capacity in brain damaged > >children. Dr. Doman used a special technique called masking to increase > >blood flow to the brain. It > >seems that the brain needs blood and oxygen more than any other organ in > >the body. We have special > >sensing devices at the base of the skull. These devices measure the amount > >of carbon dioxide in the > >blood. If the level of carbon dioxide goes up too high, these sensors cause > >the arteries and blood vessels > >in the brain to dilate to twice their normal capacity. This causes more > >blood and oxygen to reach the brain. > >This "carotid reflex" keeps the arteries open for thirty minutes after the > >crisis has passed. Dr. Doman > >used this reflex to exercise the arteries and to get more blood to the > >brain. When we increase blood flow > >to the brain over a long period of time, the brain responds by growing more > >vascular and by increasing > >the glial cell numbers. In the process of masking, a mask or paper bag was > >held over the child's face. > >This forced the child to re-breath his own air for about one minute. This > >process increases the carbon > >dioxide in the blood and triggers the carotid reflex. Dr. Doman found that > >if masking were performed once > >every half hour, all day long, that within a short period of time the brain > >was able to create new circuitry that compensated for brain damage. > > > >I immediately realized that the effect of the Sufi exercise was to trigger > >the carotid reflex. By holding our > >breath, we were getting the same result as masking. Our research indicated > >that this process was good > >for the entire body. We also discovered that, when the carotid reflex was > >triggered, that our brains > >switched on a powerful 8 cycle per second alpha rhythm. > > > >If this simple reflex could heal a brain damaged child, what could it do > >for an adult with a "normal" brain? > >Make us all into Einstein's? One thing is certain, these techniques > >increase feelings of well being and > >have profound effects on our energy levels. > > > >If I am sleepy and need to "wake up" I either mask myself with a paper bag > >or hold my breath for as long > >as I can for several cycles. The effect on alertness and energy absolutely > >astounding! > > > >When I discussed my own research with Dr. Doman over the telephone, he told > >me that since he was a > >"senior citizen" he had started masking himself several times a day. He > >told me that the process is the > >only known way to exercise the arteries in the brain. The arteries expand > >and contract as a result of the > >process. He told me that this process would hopefully keep his arteries > >flexible and clean so that he > >would not have to suffer from "hardening of the arteries". > > > >One thing is certain, the process works. It has a profound effect on > >consciousness, it increases energy, it > >causes the generation of brain waves that are usually only seen in Zen > >masters. The process probably > >has a profound effect on generating beneficial brain peptides. Finally, it > >may cause our glial cells to > >increase in number and thus increase our own intelligence. > > > > > > > From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Wed May 8 17:07:31 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA06363; Wed, 8 May 1996 13:46:24 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id NAA05555; Wed, 8 May 1996 13:12:59 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id NAA05487; Wed, 8 May 1996 13:12:42 -0400 (EDT) From: RHMH@aol.com Received: from emout07.mail.aol.com (emout07.mx.aol.com) by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA09778; Wed, 8 May 1996 13:08:09 -0400 Received: by emout07.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id NAA27538; Wed, 8 May 1996 13:07:31 -0400 Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 13:07:31 -0400 Message-Id: <960508130728_486842965@emout07.mail.aol.com> To: tariqas@world.std.com, winged-heart@seas.upenn.edu Subject: Lama Update Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: Beloveds of Allah, The Lama folks as a whole are going to be allowed back on the land today for the first time. Thus starts the process of re-building... I received a call this morning asking me to post the following information: If you want to send money, please send it to: Lama Foundation Fire Relief Fund c/o First State Bank Box 5394 Santa Fe, NM 87502 They are also in need of Mac computers (laptops) Tents Sleeping bags / bedding etc. They are speaking to the people at REI to see about being able to get some of the things that are needed through them; so it might be possible to wind up with too many of one thing, or not enough of another. A phone number [ 505 / 751-7866 ] has been set up to provide information re current status, and take messages. Calling before you send things will help them 1) keep track of what is on its way, 2) ascertain what they still need, and 3) hopefully be able to start informing folks of what they no longer need. In service, ~ramabai From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Wed May 8 17:42:36 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA00998; Wed, 8 May 1996 14:18:57 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id NAA15463; Wed, 8 May 1996 13:46:33 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id NAA15415; Wed, 8 May 1996 13:46:30 -0400 (EDT) From: RHMH@aol.com Received: from emout16.mail.aol.com (emout16.mx.aol.com) by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA04193; Wed, 8 May 1996 13:43:07 -0400 Received: by emout16.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id NAA22631; Wed, 8 May 1996 13:42:36 -0400 Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 13:42:36 -0400 Message-Id: <960508134236_289805693@emout16.mail.aol.com> To: Tariqas@world.std.com, winged-heart@seas.upenn.edu Subject: Fwd: How can I help? Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: >From a message datedTue, 7 May 1996 15:21:31 -0600 (MDT): >Lama will need everything - from love and prayers to money, >furniture, computers, phones, beds, to teepees, yurts, portable >buildings, a backoe and A LOT of hands on work. They are >setting up a bank acct. today to receive funds for immediate and long >range rebuilding efforts. Sunday we will have a major meeting to >assess further, and what will happen about this summer's program,etc. From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Wed May 8 00:20:45 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA18891; Wed, 8 May 1996 15:02:11 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id OAA25221; Wed, 8 May 1996 14:33:01 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from case.cyberspace.com by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id OAA25161; Wed, 8 May 1996 14:32:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from bdaniel ([206.100.176.134]) by case.cyberspace.com (post.office MTA v1.9.3 ID# 0-11430) with SMTP id AAA26672 for ; Wed, 8 May 1996 11:32:55 -0700 Message-Id: <318FE8DD.84F@cyberspace.com> Date: Tue, 07 May 1996 17:20:45 -0700 From: bdaniel@cyberspace.com (Brent Daniel) X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win95; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Subject: Re: Rumi References: <960507121713_486039185@emout10.mail.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: Hafizullah@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 96-05-07 04:23:33 EDT, you write: > > >>Perhaps you can help me? I am preparing a presentation of Rumi's > >>writings accompanied by my own photography. I want to be sure to > >>pronounce his name correctly. Can you tell me how? Thank you. > >>Jim Miller > > Depends. Most English speakers will recognize Rumi as pronounced "Roomy." > In Perso-Arabic script, it's written to be pronounced Roo-mee, equal stress > on both syllables. Coleman Barks pronounces it this way, btw. Rumi's > devotees and most Turks simply refer to him as "Mevlana:" "Our Master." > It's Persian, borrowed from Arabic (maw-la-na, equally accented), and the > Turks pronounced it mev-LA-na. > > in Service, > Hafizullah > faqir-i Mevlevi A large number of Persian speaking people know "Rumi" as Jallaladin Muhammed Balkhi. Balkh being the place of his birth. In fact, most publications in the original language do not ever refer to Maulana as "Rumi". Brent Daniel From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Wed May 8 11:04:45 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA13284; Wed, 8 May 1996 15:40:03 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id PAA01565; Wed, 8 May 1996 15:06:36 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id PAA01559; Wed, 8 May 1996 15:06:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CYPHER.TURBONET.COM by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA20416; Wed, 8 May 1996 15:04:55 -0400 Received: from [204.188.48.214] by cypher.turbonet.com (NTMail 3.01.03) id fa058271; Wed, 8 May 1996 12:04:45 +0100 X-Sender: Well333@turbonet.com (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: tariqas@world.std.com From: Well333@turbonet.com (Jacquie Weller) Subject: Re: rules, Thankyou Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 12:04:45 +0100 Message-Id: <19044515812954@turbonet.com> X-Info: Visit http:// www.TurboNet.com/ Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: Thankyou everyone for helping and clarifying things. It is a techical problem rather than a personal one why I'm not getting postings from winged heart. I guess I'm pretty untrusting, and fearful sometimes. I'm glad that what I thought was not reality. Love Lalla. From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Wed May 8 19:50:03 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA12220; Wed, 8 May 1996 16:27:10 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id PAA09759; Wed, 8 May 1996 15:50:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from cwis.unomaha.edu by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id PAA09735; Wed, 8 May 1996 15:50:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: by cwis.unomaha.edu (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA04811; Wed, 8 May 1996 14:50:04 -0500 Message-Id: <9605081950.AA04811@cwis.unomaha.edu> Subject: Re: Breathing technique To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 14:50:03 -0500 (CDT) From: Richard Bennett Cc: rbennett@cwis.unomaha.edu (Richard Bennett) In-Reply-To: <199605081150.HAA07680@soho.ios.com> from "K.Ahmad" at May 8, 96 07:50:12 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Content-Type: text Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: 786 asalaam Kaleem, would like to know how i can obtain this book...can you help me?? wasalaam abdul ghani > > > As-salaamu alaikum, > > In W D Begg's book The Holy Biography of Hazrat Khwaja Muinuddin Chishti, > Chapter 11; 108 Sacred Sayings of Khwaja Muinuddin: > #15. Concentration on the implication of drawing and discharging breath is a > part of the seer's (Arif's) worship. > > Salaams, > Kaleem > > From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Wed May 8 20:00:51 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA20031; Wed, 8 May 1996 16:40:56 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id QAA11756; Wed, 8 May 1996 16:01:07 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from relay3.jaring.my by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id QAA11734; Wed, 8 May 1996 16:01:01 -0400 (EDT) From: maarof@pc.jaring.my Received: from 161.142.239.228 (j6.brf42.jaring.my [161.142.239.228]) by relay3.jaring.my (8.7.1/8.7.1) with SMTP id EAA00696 for ; Thu, 9 May 1996 04:00:51 +0800 (MYT) Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 04:00:51 +0800 (MYT) Message-Id: <199605082000.EAA00696@relay3.jaring.my> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Insects To: tariqas@facteur.std.com In-Reply-To: <9605060340.AA01111@edumath.math.usu.edu> X-Mailer: SPRY Mail Version: 04.00.06.17 Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: On Sun, 5 May 1996, sllcr@edumath.math.usu.edu (Asim Jalis) wrote: >Something I was thinking about which might seem to have the stench of >nitpicky rationalism and fiqh-ism about it but I will be imprudent >enough to ask anyway: how does one reconcile loving all of God's >creation with using pesticides to kill roaches? > >Asim > A wise man said, look at things as reflection of what you are. We look at roaches as lowly, dirty creatures, invaders of our home. That is a reflection of state of man today -- we are as deceived of our special status as a species, as Iblis when encountered Adam. How are we to know, the pesticides or the poison we use to exterminate the roaches, in the years to come, is the same poison, that emerge in the food chain, that will kill all our grandchildren, and exterminate us as a species in this world? To love all living things is to reflect on the role all living things as God meant it to be, and to understand that we are sent to this world as 'guest' and as God's appointed 'guardian' on Earth. From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Thu May 9 00:48:14 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA28487; Wed, 8 May 1996 21:15:13 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id UAA00581; Wed, 8 May 1996 20:54:33 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id UAA29742; Wed, 8 May 1996 20:49:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from darice@localhost) by yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA28215; Thu, 9 May 1996 10:48:15 +1000 (EST) Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 10:48:14 +1000 (EST) From: Dien Alfred Rice To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Subject: Re: Rumi In-Reply-To: <318FE8DD.84F@cyberspace.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: Assalamu alaikum, On Tue, 7 May 1996, Brent Daniel wrote: > A large number of Persian speaking people know "Rumi" as Jallaladin > Muhammed Balkhi. Balkh being the place of his birth. In fact, most > publications in the original language do not ever refer to Maulana as > "Rumi". I think I have read something like this too.... I wonder if this is partly because where Rumi was born is in present-day Afghanistan, and many Afghans speak Farsi (Persian). Naturally, they would like to remember their own connection to this great Sufi, which I think is a good thing. :) They are also fortunate in that Persian speakers can read Rumi's poetry in the original language (though Persian may have changed a lot since Rumi's time, I don't know). Wassalam, Farid ud-Dien Rice From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Wed May 8 12:21:32 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA11545; Wed, 8 May 1996 21:41:23 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id VAA05009; Wed, 8 May 1996 21:24:59 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from edumath.math.usu.edu by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id VAA05005; Wed, 8 May 1996 21:24:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: by edumath.math.usu.edu (5.0/SMI-SVR4) id AA17278; Wed, 8 May 1996 19:21:32 +0700 Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 19:21:32 +0700 From: sllcr@edumath.math.usu.edu (Asim Jalis) Message-Id: <9605090121.AA17278@edumath.math.usu.edu> To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Subject: Tariqa in Logan, Utah Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: Does anyone know of a tariqa based in Logan Utah (Northern Utah) or close to that? Asim From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Thu May 9 03:18:12 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA10406; Wed, 8 May 1996 23:33:23 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id XAA24667; Wed, 8 May 1996 23:20:42 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id XAA24661; Wed, 8 May 1996 23:20:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mhub1.tc.umn.edu by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA03056; Wed, 8 May 1996 23:18:14 -0400 Received: from maroon.tc.umn.edu by mhub1.tc.umn.edu; Wed, 8 May 96 22:18:13 -0500 Received: by maroon.tc.umn.edu; Wed, 8 May 96 22:18:13 -0500 Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 22:18:12 -0500 (CDT) From: Erik S Ohlander To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: Dulcimer Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: To All- This may be a bit of ma digression, but I assume that someone out there knows something about the plucked dulcimer. I just purchased two dulcimers at a garage sale, and am in the process of restoring them. I bought strings, but do not know where the melody string and the bass string go. If anyone knows, tunings as well, please respond. Erik. From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Thu May 9 03:14:19 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA11724; Wed, 8 May 1996 23:36:34 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id XAA23603; Wed, 8 May 1996 23:14:26 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from mhub1.tc.umn.edu by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id XAA23596; Wed, 8 May 1996 23:14:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from maroon.tc.umn.edu by mhub1.tc.umn.edu; Wed, 8 May 96 22:14:20 -0500 Received: by maroon.tc.umn.edu; Wed, 8 May 96 22:14:20 -0500 Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 22:14:19 -0500 (CDT) From: Erik S Ohlander To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Cc: tariqas@facteur.std.com Subject: Re: Rumi In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: Every Persian school-child learns the opening bayts from Rumi's Mathnavi (along with Hafiz, Sa'adi, Jami, and others). I have a professor from Shiraz who has mentioned that Rumi's Farsi (as well as other poets of his time) is comparable to our 'Shakespeare' in how its viewed by educated people today. Erik. On Thu, 9 May 1996, Dien Alfred Rice wrote: > > Assalamu alaikum, > > On Tue, 7 May 1996, Brent Daniel wrote: > > > A large number of Persian speaking people know "Rumi" as Jallaladin > > Muhammed Balkhi. Balkh being the place of his birth. In fact, most > > publications in the original language do not ever refer to Maulana as > > "Rumi". > > I think I have read something like this too.... > > I wonder if this is partly because where Rumi was born is in > present-day Afghanistan, and many Afghans speak Farsi (Persian). > Naturally, they would like to remember their own connection > to this great Sufi, which I think is a good thing. :) > > They are also fortunate in that Persian speakers can read > Rumi's poetry in the original language (though Persian may > have changed a lot since Rumi's time, I don't know). > > Wassalam, > > Farid ud-Dien Rice > From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Thu May 9 03:02:27 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA27818; Thu, 9 May 1996 00:22:09 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id XAA21880; Wed, 8 May 1996 23:03:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from mhub1.tc.umn.edu by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id XAA21821; Wed, 8 May 1996 23:02:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from maroon.tc.umn.edu by mhub1.tc.umn.edu; Wed, 8 May 96 22:02:28 -0500 Received: by maroon.tc.umn.edu; Wed, 8 May 96 22:02:28 -0500 Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 22:02:27 -0500 (CDT) From: Erik S Ohlander To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Cc: tariqas@facteur.std.com Subject: Re: Rumi In-Reply-To: <318FE8DD.84F@cyberspace.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: Not to beat this to death, but Rumi's nisbah (as you mentioned) is al-Balkhi, not ar-Rumi. The nisbah al-Rumi simply means 'The Roman', a reference to Konya and environs. It is interesting to note that Sultan Valad often calls him Muhammad al-Balkhi. Erik. On Tue, 7 May 1996, Brent Daniel wrote: > Hafizullah@aol.com wrote: > > > > In a message dated 96-05-07 04:23:33 EDT, you write: > > > > >>Perhaps you can help me? I am preparing a presentation of Rumi's > > >>writings accompanied by my own photography. I want to be sure to > > >>pronounce his name correctly. Can you tell me how? Thank you. > > >>Jim Miller > > > > Depends. Most English speakers will recognize Rumi as pronounced "Roomy." > > In Perso-Arabic script, it's written to be pronounced Roo-mee, equal stress > > on both syllables. Coleman Barks pronounces it this way, btw. Rumi's > > devotees and most Turks simply refer to him as "Mevlana:" "Our Master." > > It's Persian, borrowed from Arabic (maw-la-na, equally accented), and the > > Turks pronounced it mev-LA-na. > > > > in Service, > > Hafizullah > > faqir-i Mevlevi > > A large number of Persian speaking people know "Rumi" as Jallaladin > Muhammed Balkhi. Balkh being the place of his birth. In fact, most > publications in the original language do not ever refer to Maulana as > "Rumi". > > Brent Daniel > From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Thu May 9 15:52:00 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA25029; Thu, 9 May 1996 12:22:29 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id LAA17094; Thu, 9 May 1996 11:54:32 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id LAA17085; Thu, 9 May 1996 11:54:30 -0400 (EDT) From: RHMH@aol.com Received: from emout19.mail.aol.com (emout19.mx.aol.com) by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA08001; Thu, 9 May 1996 11:52:33 -0400 Received: by emout19.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id LAA13398; Thu, 9 May 1996 11:52:00 -0400 Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 11:52:00 -0400 Message-Id: <960509115200_290509886@emout19.mail.aol.com> To: Tariqas@world.std.com, winged-heart@seas.upenn.edu Subject: FWD: Ways to donate $ and items Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: RE: ways to donate $ and items Dear Friends, Thank you doesn't begin to express our gratitude for the support Lama Foundation is receiving. Here are specific ways that people can help. Please send this information to anyone you feel would want it. We have an account set up to accept financial donations: Lama Foundation Fire Relief Fund c/o First State Bank PO Box 5394 Santa Fe, New Mexico 87502 Anyone wanting to wire or direct transfer funds, please call Sakina at 505-982-9385 for information. For donating items, we have a clearing house voice mail phone number. To donate or loan items, please leave a specific message of what you can offer and how we can reach you, and we will call you if we are able to use what you are offering. Please don't just send items, as we may end up with 1,000 tents! Clearing house number 1-505-751-7866. We specifically need donations or loans of: portable housing portable generators tools of all kinds Macintosh laptops, printers, etc Large water containers We'll keep updating this needs list as it changes. Again, thank you all for your prayers and the love that is allowing us to move forward. The size and compassion of the worldwide Lama Foundation family is touching us beyond what words can express. In peace, Sakina & Siddiq von Briesen From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Thu May 9 16:18:41 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA06262; Thu, 9 May 1996 12:40:45 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id MAA21310; Thu, 9 May 1996 12:18:44 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from emout13.mail.aol.com by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id MAA21296; Thu, 9 May 1996 12:18:42 -0400 (EDT) From: Hafizullah@aol.com Received: by emout13.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id MAA22413 for tariqas@europe.std.com; Thu, 9 May 1996 12:18:41 -0400 Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 12:18:41 -0400 Message-Id: <960509121839_110044306@emout13.mail.aol.com> To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Subject: Re: Rumi Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: In a message dated 96-05-08 20:58:29 EDT, you write: >They are also fortunate in that Persian speakers can read >Rumi's poetry in the original language (though Persian may >have changed a lot since Rumi's time, I don't know). I'm told by Persian speakers that Mevlana's Persian is still very accessible. Brent has studied it; he may be able to comment more than I. From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Thu May 9 16:18:43 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA06311; Thu, 9 May 1996 12:40:49 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id MAA21322; Thu, 9 May 1996 12:18:49 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from emout17.mail.aol.com by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id MAA21309; Thu, 9 May 1996 12:18:44 -0400 (EDT) From: Hafizullah@aol.com Received: by emout17.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id MAA19650 for tariqas@europe.std.com; Thu, 9 May 1996 12:18:43 -0400 Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 12:18:43 -0400 Message-Id: <960509121843_110044330@emout17.mail.aol.com> To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Subject: Re: Breathing technique Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: Just a cautionary note: There are some practices, such repeating "Allah," that can only benefit, and anyone can do them. Breathing practices are not like that, and you can fry your brains on them, or damage yourself in other ways. Pir-o-Murshid Inayat Khan's instructions to his khalifas contain a number of cautions in this regard. It it always advisable to do these things under the guidance of a knowledgeable teacher who can directly monitor the effects these things are having. IF, in spite of the foregoing, you are going to do this practice: 1. Remember that sufi teachers generally give instructions specifically to the person they are addressing, for their specific needs at a specific time; Shaikh Hasan did not give this practice to everybody the writer met from then on. Go slowly. Work up to it. You may be lucky, like the writer, or you may not be quite ready for a long series of breath retentions and experience weird side effects. Don't do it for half an hour right off. Start with three minutes, or five minutes, and increase the number of repetitions every three months or so. If you experience strange (=uncomfortable) side effects, back off a bit. Side effects can include physical illnesses, flaky short-term memory or spaciness, wooziness, and your nafs biting you in whatever ways (anger, judgementalness, fears/insecurities) are your favorites. Bad side effects will strike at whatever your personal weak link is, and tend to sneak up on you; you will tend to interpret them as something else. If you do not have a sense of your personal 'baseline,' or don't know what that means, DO NOT DO THIS PRACTICE without proper supervision. This mail does not constitute supervision; I just feel an obligation to share that which will keep the majority of folks out of trouble. 2. It is best to inhale and hold the breath to a ratio of 1-2-1, that is, retain the breath for twice the time it took you to inhale. So if it takes you ten 'counts' to inhale, hold for twenty, and exhale for ten. The best counter to use is your own heartbeat. 3. Do not strain, or retain for such a length of time that your exhale comes out all in a whoosh. An unrefined manner of spiritual practice does not tend to lead to a refinement of consciousness. Don't do this practice right after eating. 4. IMPORTANT: Retain a breath by holding your chest at expansion, not by closing the glottis. Closing the glottis to hold a breath restricts the flow of energy between trunk and head and can lead to putting pressure on and damaging internal organs. 5. Do this practice in a state of quiet mind and peaceful heart. Mental or emotional agitation will be amplified by the practice. Center in the heart. "Good intentions are necessary but not sufficient; you must in fact BE doing what you think you are doing." From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Thu May 9 16:59:33 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA25758; Thu, 9 May 1996 13:51:36 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id NAA29079; Thu, 9 May 1996 13:02:33 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id NAA29069; Thu, 9 May 1996 13:02:31 -0400 (EDT) From: NurLuna@aol.com Received: from emout07.mail.aol.com (emout07.mx.aol.com) by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA20174; Thu, 9 May 1996 12:59:33 -0400 Received: by emout07.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id MAA17345; Thu, 9 May 1996 12:59:33 -0400 Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 12:59:33 -0400 Message-Id: <960509125931_110068719@emout07.mail.aol.com> To: wh@seas.upenn.edu, tariqas@world.std.com Subject: burning... Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: As-salaam aleikum, and Allah Mubarak! Sunday past was the last day of the Mid-Atlantic Sufi Camp in Charlottesville, VA. I had spent four days with my beloveds and with my beloved teacher and was gloriously high. Then the back of my left hand started tingling, feeling irritated. I had been in the kitchen and had used a dishtowel I brought that I had found left in a corner. Someone else had used the towel, I thought, and something was on it, chemicals or something, that I was reacting to. I went in the bathroom and carefully washed my left hand. It didn't help much, and I mentioned what was happening and received some suggestions to try baking soda, etc. But then the Dancing started again, and I was distracted. I forgot about it. On the way home, after handling the same dishtowel my left hand started feeling the same way again, and the back of my right hand seemed to be joining in. Definitely something on the towel, I decided. I noticed it for a while, but it didn't seem to be getting any worse, so I forgot about it again. The next day, driving home from work, my left hand again started tingling, burning. *Burning*! As I thought of all I had read that day about the fire at Lama, I "saw" a pair of hands, cupped palm down, being lowered into flames, and immediately knew that my experience was connected with that. (As I write this, the burning feeling has started again!) Indeed when it first began on Sunday was probably close to the time when Lama was being threatened. I certainly don't believe that they were my hands that descended protectively around the Dome and the kitchens. They were the hands of all who cared, all who loved, all who ate, Danced, and prayed together there. They were the Hands of ar-Rahim. My rational mind "explained" the sparing of these structures to the fact that there were less trees in that area, so less intense fire. One of the news reports attributes it to a direct hit by water dropped from helicopters. Hands come in all forms, I say! There is a verse from a childhood hymn that has been going through my mind, the words spoken by God. "When through fiery trials thy pathway shall lie, My Grace, all sufficient, shall be thy supply. The flames shall not harm thee! My Only Design -- Thy dross to consume and thy gold to refine." Farrunnissa From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Thu May 9 18:12:36 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA20061; Thu, 9 May 1996 15:15:24 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id OAA18730; Thu, 9 May 1996 14:48:25 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id OAA18692; Thu, 9 May 1996 14:48:19 -0400 (EDT) From: RHMH@aol.com Received: from emout18.mail.aol.com (emout18.mx.aol.com) by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA10719; Thu, 9 May 1996 14:13:43 -0400 Received: by emout18.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id OAA20301; Thu, 9 May 1996 14:12:36 -0400 Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 14:12:36 -0400 Message-Id: <960509141236_394692951@emout18.mail.aol.com> To: Tariqas@world.std.com, winged-heart@seas.upenn.edu Subject: Lama: Update to this day Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: RE: Update to this day Dear Friends, Residents of Lama village and Lama Foundation were formally allowed this morning to return to their properties. There are thousands of hot spots that may take two weeks or more to die out, during which there is some danger. Damage assessment will begin soon, but we do know that much of the watershed for Lama and San Cristobal was burned out. Lama residents have been up before today, and a preliminary survey with photographs was done. The buildings that survived were: the entire main dome complex, the old kitchen, the new kitchen under construction, the Dewdrop (over the old larder), the Lamassary (moved last year near the old kitchen), the generator house, and the Aspen A. All other buildings (including the garage/workshop, only 50 feet from the dewdrop) were destroyed. But for the immediate areas around each of these buildings, most of the land is covered with ash, soot, and burned tree trunks. The water cistern is holding water, and the spring is yielding water. The propane tank at Lama central is OK. It seems pretty clear that retreats cannot be held at Lama this year, but we are exploring the possibility of relocating them. At present, the main effort is regrouping and reorganizing our own circle. To this end, there will be a meeting in Taos to reconnect the wider Lama Foundation members' circle in healing, on Sunday afternoon. We may or may not be able to make some decisions then. The resident community (in exile) dearly hopes that it can safely dance with visitors in the main dome on what was to be the opening visitors' day, May 19. Safety issues will have to be worked out. Sakina sent today to (most of) this e-mail list a clearing house number for those who wish to donate goods and services to Lama Foundation, and an address for those wishing to send money to the Lama Foundation Relief Fund. If you didn't get her e-mail, please ask me for it. The outpouring of love and concern is wonderful and welcome. We have not had time to work hard on rebuilding plans. We are still regrouping. A newsletter will be coming out in about two weeks for all of the 8,500 people on our mailing list for whom we have addresses in our database. Yours in the Love of the One, Siddiq From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Thu May 9 20:49:03 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA29353; Thu, 9 May 1996 16:55:36 -0400 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id QAA16796; Thu, 9 May 1996 16:55:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from europe.std.com (europe-e.std.com) by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA25948; Thu, 9 May 1996 16:50:48 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id QAA15365; Thu, 9 May 1996 16:49:03 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 16:49:03 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199605092049.QAA15365@europe.std.com> X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f To: tariqas-approval@world.std.com From: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Subject: BOUNCE tariqas@world.std.com: Admin request Status: RO X-Status: >From habib@world.std.com Thu May 9 16:48:59 1996 Return-Path: Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id QAA15359; Thu, 9 May 1996 16:48:59 -0400 (EDT) From: azad@mainelink.net Received: from mainelink.net by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA22212; Thu, 9 May 1996 16:45:16 -0400 Received: (from azad@localhost) by mainelink.net (8.7.4/8.6.12) id QAA04668; Thu, 9 May 1996 16:44:57 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 16:44:57 -0400 (EDT) To: Tariqas@world.std.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII please SUBSCRIBE Azad Donovan Portland, Maine Thank you. From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Fri May 10 11:37:48 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA10430; Thu, 9 May 1996 20:07:13 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id TAA13867; Thu, 9 May 1996 19:38:04 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from case.cyberspace.com by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id TAA13715; Thu, 9 May 1996 19:37:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from bdaniel ([206.100.176.148]) by case.cyberspace.com (post.office MTA v1.9.3 ID# 0-11430) with SMTP id AAA21123 for ; Thu, 9 May 1996 16:37:40 -0700 Message-Id: <31932A8C.792B@cyberspace.com> Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 04:37:48 -0700 From: bdaniel@cyberspace.com (Brent Daniel) Organization: Law Offices of R. Brent Daniel X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Win95; U) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Subject: Re: Breathing technique References: <960509121843_110044330@emout17.mail.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: Hafizullah@aol.com wrote: > > Just a cautionary note: > > There are some practices, such repeating "Allah," that can only benefit, and > anyone can do them. Breathing practices are not like that, and you can fry > your brains on them, or damage yourself in other ways. Pir-o-Murshid Inayat > Khan's instructions to his khalifas contain a number of cautions in this > regard. It it always advisable to do these things under the guidance of a > knowledgeable teacher who can directly monitor the effects these things are > having. > > IF, in spite of the foregoing, you are going to do this practice: > 1. Remember that sufi teachers generally give instructions specifically to > the person they are addressing, for their specific needs at a specific time; > Shaikh Hasan did not give this practice to everybody the writer met from then > on. Go slowly. Work up to it. You may be lucky, like the writer, or you may > not be quite ready for a long series of breath retentions and experience > weird side effects. Don't do it for half an hour right off. Start with three > minutes, or five minutes, and increase the number of repetitions every three > months or so. If you experience strange (=uncomfortable) side effects, back > off a bit. Side effects can include physical illnesses, flaky short-term > memory or spaciness, wooziness, and your nafs biting you in whatever ways > (anger, judgementalness, fears/insecurities) are your favorites. Bad side > effects will strike at whatever your personal weak link is, and tend to sneak > up on you; you will tend to interpret them as something else. If you do not > have a sense of your personal 'baseline,' or don't know what that means, DO > NOT DO THIS PRACTICE without proper supervision. This mail does not > constitute supervision; I just feel an obligation to share that which will > keep the majority of folks out of trouble. > 2. It is best to inhale and hold the breath to a ratio of 1-2-1, that is, > retain the breath for twice the time it took you to inhale. So if it takes > you ten 'counts' to inhale, hold for twenty, and exhale for ten. The best > counter to use is your own heartbeat. > 3. Do not strain, or retain for such a length of time that your exhale comes > out all in a whoosh. An unrefined manner of spiritual practice does not tend > to lead to a refinement of consciousness. Don't do this practice right after > eating. > 4. IMPORTANT: Retain a breath by holding your chest at expansion, not by > closing the glottis. Closing the glottis to hold a breath restricts the flow > of energy between trunk and head and can lead to putting pressure on and > damaging internal organs. > 5. Do this practice in a state of quiet mind and peaceful heart. Mental or > emotional agitation will be amplified by the practice. Center in the heart. > > "Good intentions are necessary but not sufficient; you must in fact BE doing > what you think you are doing." Yesterday I noticed a detailed description of a breathing technique rightly attributed to Hasan Shushud. At the time I did not pay much attention. Since then I have been instructed to comment. Please be advised that the description given should not be attempted unless it has been prescribed face-to-face by your sheikh. Whether it has been accurately related in the posting is irrelevant. In fact, it has not been properly related. Please do not work with this exercise if its source solely is the net. If you are uncertain, please contact your sheikh. Brent Daniel From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Fri May 10 08:10:07 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA09511; Fri, 10 May 1996 04:26:00 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id EAA19733; Fri, 10 May 1996 04:12:23 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id EAA19726; Fri, 10 May 1996 04:12:21 -0400 (EDT) From: informe@best.com Received: from blob.best.net by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA06941; Fri, 10 May 1996 04:10:12 -0400 Received: from [204.156.129.34] (informe.vip.best.com [204.156.129.34]) by blob.best.net (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id BAA24483 for ; Fri, 10 May 1996 01:10:07 -0700 Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 01:10:07 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: Re: Breathing technique Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: >Hafizullah@aol.com wrote: >> >> Just a cautionary note: >> >> There are some practices, such repeating "Allah," that can only benefit, and >> anyone can do them. Breathing practices are not like that, and you can fry >> your brains on them, or damage yourself in other ways. Pir-o-Murshid Inayat >> Khan's instructions to his khalifas contain a number of cautions in this >> regard. It it always advisable to do these things under the guidance of a >> knowledgeable teacher who can directly monitor the effects these things are >> having. >Yesterday I noticed a detailed description of a breathing technique >rightly attributed to Hasan Shushud. At the time I did not pay much >attention. Since then I have been instructed to comment. Please be >advised that the description given should not be attempted unless it has >been prescribed face-to-face by your sheikh. Whether it has been >accurately related in the posting is irrelevant. In fact, it has not >been properly related. Please do not work with this exercise if its >source solely is the net. If you are uncertain, please contact your >sheikh. > >Brent Daniel As-salaamu alaikum, Astagfirullah, it was not my intention to cause difficulty in this way. I thought about performing the pratice, but I was mainly interested in the correlation between the two methods and the effect noted. My shaykh has not given me breathing practices, so I should have reasoned that my judgement in this area was not at all mature. By all means, before undertaking any such practices, consult with the shaykh. Please forgive me. Salaams, Hamza From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Fri May 10 08:49:58 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA13777; Fri, 10 May 1996 05:02:12 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id EAA24470; Fri, 10 May 1996 04:50:05 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from blob.best.net by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id EAA24466; Fri, 10 May 1996 04:50:03 -0400 (EDT) From: informe@best.com Received: from [204.156.129.34] (informe.vip.best.com [204.156.129.34]) by blob.best.net (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id BAA24856; Fri, 10 May 1996 01:49:58 -0700 Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 01:49:58 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Subject: Re: Breathing technique Cc: jmccaig@worldwide.net Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: > 786 > >asalaam Kaleem, > >would like to know how i can obtain this book...can you help me?? > >wasalaam > >abdul ghani >> >> >> As-salaamu alaikum, >> >> In W D Begg's book The Holy Biography of Hazrat Khwaja Muinuddin Chishti, >> Chapter 11; 108 Sacred Sayings of Khwaja Muinuddin: >> #15. Concentration on the implication of drawing and discharging breath is a >> part of the seer's (Arif's) worship. >> >> Salaams, >> Kaleem >> >> As-salaamu alaikum, You might try asking the Sufi Center of Washington at jmccaig@worldwide.net. Salaams, Hamza From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Fri May 10 16:49:36 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA17351; Fri, 10 May 1996 13:17:06 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id MAA14789; Fri, 10 May 1996 12:50:47 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id MAA14774; Fri, 10 May 1996 12:50:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA29721; Fri, 10 May 1996 12:49:36 -0400 Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 12:49:36 -0400 (EDT) From: arsalaan fay Subject: a request To: tariqas@world.std.com In-Reply-To: <960509141236_394692951@emout18.mail.aol.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: Friends Please leave long quotes from previous messages at the end of a new posting rather than at the beginning. This would make messages more readable in that I have generally read the origional posting and don't need to read it again. Thank You From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Fri May 10 12:02:49 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA28375; Fri, 10 May 1996 16:41:37 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id QAA20754; Fri, 10 May 1996 16:05:54 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id QAA20750; Fri, 10 May 1996 16:05:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CYPHER.TURBONET.COM by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA02207; Fri, 10 May 1996 16:03:23 -0400 Received: from [204.188.48.211] by cypher.turbonet.com (NTMail 3.01.03) id ia059106; Fri, 10 May 1996 13:02:49 +0100 X-Sender: Well333@turbonet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: tariqas@world.std.com From: Well333@turbonet.com (Jacquie Weller) Subject: Today, letting go Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 13:02:49 +0100 Message-Id: <20024983218969@turbonet.com> X-Info: Visit http:// www.TurboNet.com/ Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: Today I'm thinking of you in the fresh new moment and I let go of yesterday's shadow. My heart is grateful for my new friends who journey in the rich, vibrant, space of Allah, and all the beautiful names of love creating All. You, together, make up God's Great Mosaic of what cannot be uttered, described, in language, or any single word. Poem by Jacquie Lalla of Idaho From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Fri May 10 20:58:07 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA26585; Fri, 10 May 1996 17:26:05 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id RAA00472; Fri, 10 May 1996 17:01:40 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id RAA00465; Fri, 10 May 1996 17:01:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nova.unix.portal.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA11395; Fri, 10 May 1996 16:59:35 -0400 Received: from jobe.shell.portal.com (jobe.shell.portal.com [156.151.3.4]) by nova.unix.portal.com (8.6.11/8.6.5) with ESMTP id NAA12383 for ; Fri, 10 May 1996 13:58:09 -0700 Received: (tyagi@localhost) by jobe.shell.portal.com (8.6.11/8.6.5) id NAA07880 for tariqas@world.std.com; Fri, 10 May 1996 13:58:08 -0700 Message-Id: <199605102058.NAA07880@jobe.shell.portal.com> Subject: Ignorance Before Islam (Jahilayya) To: tariqas@world.std.com (Tariqas Elist) Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 13:58:07 -0700 (PDT) From: tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com (Haramullah) Orientation: House of Kaos, St. Joseph, Kali Fornika, US -- Kali Yuga X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: 49960510 assalam alaykum, my kin! I thought perhaps the readers here might enjoy this small excerpt from email on a subject I rarely hear discussed (jahilayya): [briefly quoting an anonymous email correspondent] |I would always try to find and to bring Islam into my life but.... Allah graces us with submission to Hir perfection |sometime I couldn't as the surrounding is always in 'jahiliyah' the time before Islam is inscrutible, arid to our senses and multi- farious of apparent djinn and pacts. these seem horrible to our senses, and yet we TOO are Allah's creation (I would likely be very horrible to you and inspire great fear) |How do you think [I] can solve this problem....[?] what problem? when there is a bigger cake to eat do we fret? when the wind blows and the yard is full of leaves do we complain? Allah controls all things. SHe makes things such that we are and we work with them. when the teacher assigns us a difficult homework for tomorrow do we abandon the class? those who dwell in the ignorance before Islam (jahilayya) are not aware of what we are missing. more, EVERYONE is ignorant of the majesty of Allah to some degree (perhaps excepting the most blessed saints, peace be upon them). we are not deserving of pity, but a firm example (*without condemnation*!) the diversity of spiritual concrescence allows a potent center of willpower and devotion to the Most Compassionate within the most horrendous of circumstances yes, it is painful, daunting, difficult to act within the societies which have not yet submitted to Allah, and yet this is the purging of our nafs! the hotter the fire, the purer we are made. the oases of al-Haqq in the midst of depravity are like vital wells from which the ignorant may draw their sustenance until we can become more aware peace be with you, my kin. Haramullah tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Fri May 10 20:53:57 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA00600; Fri, 10 May 1996 17:32:47 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id RAA00293; Fri, 10 May 1996 17:00:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id RAA00282; Fri, 10 May 1996 17:00:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nova.unix.portal.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA08965; Fri, 10 May 1996 16:55:26 -0400 Received: from jobe.shell.portal.com (jobe.shell.portal.com [156.151.3.4]) by nova.unix.portal.com (8.6.11/8.6.5) with ESMTP id NAA11933 for ; Fri, 10 May 1996 13:54:00 -0700 Received: (tyagi@localhost) by jobe.shell.portal.com (8.6.11/8.6.5) id NAA07617 for tariqas@world.std.com; Fri, 10 May 1996 13:53:58 -0700 Message-Id: <199605102053.NAA07617@jobe.shell.portal.com> Subject: Separation of Sexes in Religion To: tariqas@world.std.com (Tariqas Elist) Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 13:53:57 -0700 (PDT) From: tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com (Haramullah) Orientation: House of Kaos, St. Joseph, Kali Fornika, US -- Kali Yuga X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: 49960510 (on the subject of separation of men and women in religious practice) assalam alaykum, my kin! Mike Granger quoted an unknown individual: |Why is it so easy to pigeonhole women with the same stereotype, but |happily, no one in his or her right mind would advocate the same view |with respect to race? Perhaps it relates to what LIla wrote recently.... Lilyan Ila |...the fallacy that only men have historically been 'leaders & shapers of |society'. If it appears to be so, it is surely because 'history' has and |continues to be selectively presented.... Besides the obvious racism and bigotry which inhabits cultural centers of immigration and competition (Pacific Rim regions, for example, where I live in the US -- CA -- are becoming some of the most diversified and so this kind of bigotry breaks down as does the society). Maybe the reason women are pigeonholed with the stereotype is that it is easier to deal with them that way (by not doing so). MSiddiqui quotes Sheikh Nazim regarding separation of women and men in salat: |Mawlana Shaykh Nazim then went on to ask the interviewer the question: | | "If you say you never saw it in your religion, why did they | build priories for nuns and monasteries for monks?" Sufis maintain that sufism does not support the type of ascetic monasticism which is being referred to here. The intent was a kind of seclusion from the world which Sufis often eschew (esp. longterm). As a means of temporary regrouping or reservation (I forget the Arabic term to which Sheikh Hisham referred when I visited his lovely center), withdrawal is compared to the plant which requires concealment (perhaps 'taqiyya') temporarily so as to protect its new shoots. Yet, is this the justification being used for separation during salat? Sheikh Nazim seems to be trying to draw out a parallel which extends only so far. Yes, there were divisions, but these were for people (and still are!) whose practices of withdrawing from society constitute a potentially *permanent* condition. In some ways I can see the parallel clearly. Religion: sex-separation, a type of withdrawal for the purposes of interacting with Allah most directly. And yet it has never been my understanding that the type of separation implied and practiced within Christian monasticism was of a similar calibre to that witnessed in mosques. Instead I would point to many Christian religous traditions which in fact separate the church in halves by sex, the pews of one side housing males, that of the other females. I'm sure this is a common practice for the reasons set forward above (likely within *many* religious traditions), and yet it is given particular emphasis in Islam I notice (sometimes involving entirely different worship areas or relegating the worship of women to the home). peace be with you, my kin. tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com (Haramullah) From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Fri May 10 23:51:03 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA18932; Fri, 10 May 1996 20:07:21 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id TAA25834; Fri, 10 May 1996 19:51:41 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from mhub1.tc.umn.edu by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id TAA25826; Fri, 10 May 1996 19:51:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from maroon.tc.umn.edu by mhub1.tc.umn.edu; Fri, 10 May 96 18:51:04 -0500 Received: by maroon.tc.umn.edu; Fri, 10 May 96 18:51:04 -0500 Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 18:51:03 -0500 (CDT) From: Erik S Ohlander To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Cc: Tariqas Elist Subject: Re: Separation of Sexes in Religion In-Reply-To: <199605102053.NAA07617@jobe.shell.portal.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: As-Salamu 'Alyakum- The reason that men and women are seperated during salah is simple: men are naturally weak. During our prayers we make prostration, stand-up, make ruku', etc. A woman in praying in front of a man would distract that man from his prayer; it is as simple as this. We must admit that the sexual desire is often very strong, and it is indeed a force which could be strong enough to distract us from our prayers in such a situation. This regulation does two main things. First, as mentioned it forces us to think only of God while we stand in His Presence. Many imams and mujtahids have made similar statements throughout the ages. Secondly, it helps - and this may sound counter-intuitive - to reduce sexism and foster equality between the sexes. This is due to the fact that the chance to objectify women as sexual objects, a violation of Islam anyway, is reduced because the impetus to do so is removed. wa s-salaam; Erik. From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Fri May 10 23:51:03 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA18365; Fri, 10 May 1996 20:06:03 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id TAA26174; Fri, 10 May 1996 19:53:58 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id TAA26166; Fri, 10 May 1996 19:53:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mhub1.tc.umn.edu by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA13445; Fri, 10 May 1996 19:51:05 -0400 Received: from maroon.tc.umn.edu by mhub1.tc.umn.edu; Fri, 10 May 96 18:51:04 -0500 Received: by maroon.tc.umn.edu; Fri, 10 May 96 18:51:04 -0500 Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 18:51:03 -0500 (CDT) From: Erik S Ohlander To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Cc: Tariqas Elist Subject: Re: Separation of Sexes in Religion In-Reply-To: <199605102053.NAA07617@jobe.shell.portal.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: As-Salamu 'Alyakum- The reason that men and women are seperated during salah is simple: men are naturally weak. During our prayers we make prostration, stand-up, make ruku', etc. A woman in praying in front of a man would distract that man from his prayer; it is as simple as this. We must admit that the sexual desire is often very strong, and it is indeed a force which could be strong enough to distract us from our prayers in such a situation. This regulation does two main things. First, as mentioned it forces us to think only of God while we stand in His Presence. Many imams and mujtahids have made similar statements throughout the ages. Secondly, it helps - and this may sound counter-intuitive - to reduce sexism and foster equality between the sexes. This is due to the fact that the chance to objectify women as sexual objects, a violation of Islam anyway, is reduced because the impetus to do so is removed. wa s-salaam; Erik. From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Sun May 11 01:43:11 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA00701; Fri, 10 May 1996 22:02:40 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id VAA11068; Fri, 10 May 1996 21:46:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from dub-img-3.compuserve.com by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id VAA11059; Fri, 10 May 1996 21:46:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: by dub-img-3.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id VAA29315; Fri, 10 May 1996 21:46:13 -0400 Date: 10 May 96 21:43:11 EDT From: AMBER K WILLIAMS <102064.3531@CompuServe.COM> To: "INTERNET:tariqas@europe.std.com" Subject: Today, letting go Message-Id: <960511014311_102064.3531_BHC72-1@CompuServe.COM> Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: Dear Lallah, I love your poems and your writing. I find them and your post beautiful and courageous. Glad to be able to share with you. Iram From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Sat May 11 03:39:17 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA09101; Fri, 10 May 1996 23:49:07 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id XAA27058; Fri, 10 May 1996 23:39:26 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from epix.net by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id XAA27052; Fri, 10 May 1996 23:39:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lwby-85ppp72.epix.net (lwby-85ppp72.epix.net [199.224.85.72]) by epix.net (8.7.5/8.7.5) with SMTP id XAA26102 for ; Fri, 10 May 1996 23:34:00 -0400 (EDT) From: sarmad@epix.net (James Brody) To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Subject: Re: Hasan Shushud Date: Sat, 11 May 1996 03:39:17 GMT Message-Id: <31940aad.10184742@mailhost.epix.net> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent .99e/32.227 Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: On Thu, 2 May 1996 22:47:33 -0700, you wrote: > >Brother Muhtar has translated a number of my favorite texts, including the >set of books by Sh. Abdul Qadir Jilani, "On the Duties of Brotherhood" by >Sh. Ghazzali, "Irshad" by Sh. Muzzafer Ozak, and "Masters of Wisdom of >Central Asia", by Sh. Hasan Shushud. > >Salaams, > >Hamza > > > Does anyone know where the books mentioned above are available. There is also another book that may be of interest. It is called, possibly, "Teachings of Caucasian Yoga." Perhaps that is not even the correct title. Is it available? Does anyone know of it? Thank you Abraham Sarmad From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Sat May 11 09:56:58 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA18845; Sat, 11 May 1996 06:04:41 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id FAA05619; Sat, 11 May 1996 05:57:05 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id FAA05611; Sat, 11 May 1996 05:57:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from darice@localhost) by yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA03443; Sat, 11 May 1996 19:56:58 +1000 (EST) Date: Sat, 11 May 1996 19:56:58 +1000 (EST) From: Dien Alfred Rice To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Subject: Re: Hasan Shushud In-Reply-To: <31940aad.10184742@mailhost.epix.net> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: Assalamu alaikum, On Sat, 11 May 1996, James Brody wrote: > There > is also another book that may be of interest. It is called, possibly, > "Teachings of Caucasian Yoga." Perhaps that is not even the correct > title. Is it available? Does anyone know of it? I don't know of this book, but there is a book called "The Teachings of Kebzeh" (about Sufism in the Caucasus mountains) by Murat Yagan. He also has a book about how the people of this region eat and live their lives, to get their well-known very long lifespans (though I've forgotten the exact title, I can tell you if you are interested, since I have the book). Murat Yagan is himself ethnically Abkhazian, which is one of the regions in the Caucasus mountains. Wassalam, Farid ud-Dien Rice From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Sat May 11 09:54:02 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA20712; Sat, 11 May 1996 06:18:45 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id FAA05454; Sat, 11 May 1996 05:54:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id FAA05438; Sat, 11 May 1996 05:54:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from darice@localhost) by yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA03009; Sat, 11 May 1996 19:54:02 +1000 (EST) Date: Sat, 11 May 1996 19:54:02 +1000 (EST) From: Dien Alfred Rice To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Subject: STORY: Wisdom in Children's Stories Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: >From the Mathnawi of Jalaluddin Rumi: Wisdom in Children's Stories There is a story from the people of Saba. Their kingdom is like a big city which you may hear from children in their stories. Their children tell stories, but hidden in their stories are many mysteries and moral lessons. Though in these stories they say many ridiculous things, in these kinds of ruins you should seek the treasure! THE CHILDREN'S STORY Once there was a great city, which was huge -- but its size was the size of a saucer, no larger than that! It was very huge, and very broad, and very long, so incredibly big, big -- the size of an onion! The people of ten large cities lived there, but the whole city was just three people with dirty faces. Within the city were countless numbers of people, yet all of them were just three fools. The soul which has not yet hurried towards the Beloved, even if there are thousands -- it is still only half a body. One of the three people had the clearest vision and was very blind -- blind to Solomon, and he could see the leg of an ant! The second person had very sharp hearing and was extremely deaf -- a treasure in which there is not even a kernel of corn's weight in gold. The third person was naked and bare, but the length of his robes were long. The blind man said, "Look, an army is approaching: I see what type of people they are, and how many are there!" The deaf man said, "Yes! I've heard their voices, and I know what they are saying when they shout, and when they whisper!" The naked man said, "I am afraid they will cut of my long robes!" The blind man said, "Look, they have come near! Let's hurry and flee, before we suffer from their blows!" "Yes," said the deaf man. "The noise is getting nearer. Come on, hurry, my friends!" The naked man said, "Oh no, from their jealousy they will cut off my robes; I am vulnerable to their whims!" So the three men fled the city. In their flight, they came to a village. In the village they found a fat chicken, but not a single piece of meat on it. A dried-up and dead chicken, its bones bare like threads, from having been pecked by crows. They three men ate the chicken like a lion eats his prey. Each of them became so full, like an elephant, from eating it. So the three kept eating, and became extremely fat, so fat that they became like three very fat elephants. In this way, the three men became so fat, that they were too big to be even fit into the world! However, even though they were so fat, they fit through a small crack in the door, and left. The way out from death is an invisible way, it doesn't come into sight. It is a marvellous way of exit. There are long lines of trailers following one after another through this small crack, which is hidden from view in the door. If you look on the door for that crack, you will not find it -- it is very well hidden, though there are so many that travel through it. EXPLANATION OF THE STORY Hope is the deaf man who has often heard of other people dying, but he has not heard of his own death, or even considered that he may one day die. The blind man is Greed: he sees other people's faults, even each little tiny hair of fault, and tells them to everybody from street to street. But his blind eyes do not perceive even one speck of his own faults, even though he is a fault-finder. The naked man is afraid that his robes will be cut off, but how could anyone cut off the robes of a naked man? He is a worldly man, impoverished and terrified. He possesses nothing, but he is afraid of thieves! He came into the world naked, and naked he will go, and all the time his heart is bleeding with anxiety on account of the thieves. At the hour of his death, when a hundred lamentations are being cried beside him, his spirit begins to laugh at its own fear. At that moment, the rich man knows he has no real gold, and the clever man, too, knows that he has no real talent. The powerful and influential man regards that which was only a loan as his own property, and he was quivering with anxiety over that false wealth. He dreams he is wealthy and dreams of the thief who will steal his sack of gold. When Death pulls his ear and wakes him from his slumber, then he falls to mocking at his fears. This is even the trembling of those learned scholars, who have the intelligence and knowledge of this world. On account of these accomplished, intelligent men, God said in the Qur'an, "They do not know." Each of them is afraid of someone stealing his time; he believes he has a great deal of knowledge. He says, "They are wasting my time," but in truth he has no time that is profitable. He says, "The people have taken me away from my work," but his soul is plunged in idleness up to his throat. Like the naked man, he is frightened and says, "I am trailing long robes; how shall I save my robes from their clutches?" He knows a hundred thousand superfluous matters connected with the many realms of knowledge, but that unjust man doesn't know his own soul. He knows the special properties of every substance, but in knowing his own substance he is as ignorant as a donkey, saying "I know what is permissable and prohibited." You don't even know if you are yourself permissable or prohibited, just like those filled with ignorance! You know this is allowed, and that is not, but are _you_ allowed or not? Think about it well! You know the value of every item of merchandise, but if you don't know the value of yourself, it is useless. You have become acquainted with the signs of fortune and misfortune; do you look to see whether you are fortunate or whether your soul itself needs cleaning? This is the soul of all knowledge -- that you should know who you shall be on the Day of Judgement. You are acquainted with the fundamentals of religion, but look upon your own fundamentals and see whether it is good. Your own fundamentals are better for you than the two fundamentals of religion, so that you may know your own fundamental nature, O great man. [From the Mathanwi of Jalaluddin Rumi, Book 3, vv. 2601-2635,2639-2656. This version is based on the translation by R. A. Nicholson, which I have altered to make it easier to read.] From Majordomo-Owner@world.std.com Sat May 11 15:48:22 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA07861; Sat, 11 May 1996 11:48:23 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id LAA11460; Sat, 11 May 1996 11:48:22 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 11 May 1996 11:48:22 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199605111548.LAA11460@europe.std.com> X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to Majordomo-Owner@world.std.com using -f To: tariqas-approval@world.std.com From: Majordomo@world.std.com Subject: APPROVE tariqas Reply-To: Majordomo@world.std.com Status: RO X-Status: -- mhermansen@sdsu.edu (marcia hermansen) requests that you approve the following: unsubscribe tariqas mhermansen@sciences.sdsu.edu If you approve, please send a message such as the following back to Majordomo@world.std.com (with the appropriate PASSWORD filled in, of course): approve PASSWORD unsubscribe tariqas mhermansen@sciences.sdsu.edu If you disapprove, do nothing. Thanks! Majordomo@world.std.com From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Sat May 11 18:04:19 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA25054; Sat, 11 May 1996 14:17:26 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id OAA26131; Sat, 11 May 1996 14:04:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from emout07.mail.aol.com by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id OAA26123; Sat, 11 May 1996 14:04:20 -0400 (EDT) From: ASHA101@aol.com Received: by emout07.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id OAA01736 for tariqas@europe.std.com; Sat, 11 May 1996 14:04:19 -0400 Date: Sat, 11 May 1996 14:04:19 -0400 Message-Id: <960511140418_396482343@emout07.mail.aol.com> To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Subject: Re: STORY: Wisdom in Children's Stories Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: gosh, thanks! Asha From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Sat May 11 22:29:31 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA28284; Sat, 11 May 1996 15:30:43 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id PAA03662; Sat, 11 May 1996 15:21:07 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from host.taconic.net.taconic.net by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id PAA03657; Sat, 11 May 1996 15:21:04 -0400 (EDT) From: omegapub@taconic.net Date: Sat, 11 May 96 15:29:31 PDT Subject: Re: Hasan Shushud To: tariqas@facteur.std.com X-Mailer: Chameleon V0.05, TCP/IP for Windows, NetManage Inc. Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: Sarmad asked where the following books are available: >Brother Muhtar has translated a number of my favorite texts, including the >set of books by Sh. Abdul Qadir Jilani, "On the Duties of Brotherhood" by >Sh. Ghazzali, "Irshad" by Sh. Muzzafer Ozak, and "Masters of Wisdom of >Central Asia", by Sh. Hasan Shushud." The first three in the series by Gilani (Utterances; Revelations of the Unseen; and Sublime Revelation), and Irshad are available from Omega Press at this e-mail address. I believe the other two mentioned abopve are currently out-of-print. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * With all best wishes, Abi'l-Khayr Date: 05/11/96 Time: 15:29:31 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * From Majordomo-Owner@world.std.com Sun May 12 15:08:26 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA13668; Sun, 12 May 1996 11:08:27 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id LAA02536; Sun, 12 May 1996 11:08:26 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 12 May 1996 11:08:26 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199605121508.LAA02536@europe.std.com> X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to Majordomo-Owner@world.std.com using -f To: tariqas-approval@world.std.com From: Majordomo@world.std.com Subject: SUBSCRIBE tariqas Reply-To: Majordomo@world.std.com Status: RO X-Status: -- WISe Services has been added to tariqas. No action is required on your part. From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Sun May 12 23:24:02 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA08833; Sun, 12 May 1996 19:36:08 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id TAA28496; Sun, 12 May 1996 19:24:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id TAA28484; Sun, 12 May 1996 19:24:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from darice@localhost) by yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA22757; Mon, 13 May 1996 09:24:02 +1000 (EST) Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 09:24:02 +1000 (EST) From: Dien Alfred Rice To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Subject: Re: Hasan Shushud In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: On Sat, 11 May 1996, Dien Alfred Rice wrote: > Assalamu alaikum, > > On Sat, 11 May 1996, James Brody wrote: > > > There > > is also another book that may be of interest. It is called, possibly, > > "Teachings of Caucasian Yoga." Perhaps that is not even the correct > > title. Is it available? Does anyone know of it? > > I don't know of this book, but there is a book called > "The Teachings of Kebzeh" (about Sufism in the Caucasus mountains) > by Murat Yagan. He also has a book about how the people of this > region eat and live their lives, to get their well-known very long > lifespans (though I've forgotten the exact title, I can tell you > if you are interested, since I have the book). Murat Yagan is > himself ethnically Abkhazian, which is one of the regions in the > Caucasus mountains. Assalamu alaikum, This other book I mentioned above, about longevity, is called "The Caucasian Book of Longevity and Well-Being," by Murat Yagan. Could this be what you are looking for? Wassalam, Farid ud-Dien Rice From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Mon May 13 02:42:20 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA25465; Sun, 12 May 1996 22:54:02 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id WAA23789; Sun, 12 May 1996 22:43:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id WAA23776; Sun, 12 May 1996 22:43:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA21820; Sun, 12 May 1996 22:42:20 -0400 Date: Sun, 12 May 1996 22:42:20 -0400 (EDT) From: Steve H Rose Subject: Re: Reply quotes To: tariqas@facteur.std.com In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: Assalamu alaikum. On Wed, 8 May 1996, Zafer Barutcuoglu wrote: [snip] > Yet, as discussions flourish, > because of a general habit of including the old message in the reply, > postings reach immense sizes. Especially when I'm away from the net for > more than a few days, I cannot even dare read my mail. On this problem, I > might have to leave Tariqas, as it paralyzes all my net account. > If it's not crucial, I kindly ask everybody not to fully quote old > messages, especially if they are very long. Much thanks in advance. Thank you for making this point. I believe it is considered good "netiquette" to [snip] out sections of messages that are not relevant to your responses. Many members of the list would appreciate this consideration -- including your host, Habib Rose From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Mon May 13 02:55:02 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA01990; Sun, 12 May 1996 23:11:09 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id WAA25767; Sun, 12 May 1996 22:55:50 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id WAA25750; Sun, 12 May 1996 22:55:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA25867; Sun, 12 May 1996 22:55:02 -0400 Date: Sun, 12 May 1996 22:55:02 -0400 (EDT) From: Steve H Rose Subject: Re: Maryam Jameela (fwd) To: tariqas@world.std.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 19:23:34 -0400 (EDT) From:tariqas-approval@world.std.com To: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Subject: BOUNCE tariqas@world.std.com: Non-member submission from [mhermans@mail.sdsu.edu (marcia hermansen)] >From habib@world.std.com Tue May 7 19:23:31 1996 Return-Path: Received: from mail.sdsu.edu by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id TAA25306; Tue, 7 May 1996 19:23:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [130.191.21.52] ([130.191.21.52]) by mail.sdsu.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.4) with SMTP id QAA07147 for ; Tue, 7 May 1996 16:23:20 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 15:36:34 -0800 To: tariqas@europe.std.com From: mhermans@mail.sdsu.edu (marcia hermansen) Subject: Re: Maryam Jameela In reply to the question, who is Maryam Jameelah? one might recommend her own book, Memoirs of Childhood and Youth in America :The Story of One Western Convert's Quest for Truth (1945-1962). She has written, I believe, two further autobiographical sequels. Maryam Jameelah came from a reform Jewish family in New York, became interested in Arab culture and the plight of the Palestinians during the 1950's and began corresponding with Abu al-A'la Maududi of the Jama'at-e-Islami, an anti-Sufi reformist movement in Pakistan. She emigrated to Pakistan at his invitation and ultimately settled there, beginning her writing career with various tracts critical of the decadence of Western civilization. etc. While interest in Jameelah might seem initially to be outside of the focus of this group, her autobiographical writingscontain a remarkable amount of self-disclosure regarding her struggle to cut through many pretentions of the culture surrounding her early life and her intense search for truth, according to her understanding. While she generally functioned as an apologist for conservative forces in the Muslim world who are associated with antipathy for Sufism, and generated somewhat of a cottage industry in producing West-bashing publications, Jameelah has since the 80's moved towards a sympathy to Sufism, particularly the writings of Seyyed Hossein Nasr, by her own admission feeling dissastisfied with the "dryness" of the Wahhabi/Jama'at-e-Islami approach to Islam. I am not aware of her activities/situation after 1993. wa-s-salam, Marcia Hermansen From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Mon May 13 02:53:55 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA03223; Sun, 12 May 1996 23:12:54 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id WAA25805; Sun, 12 May 1996 22:56:01 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id WAA25801; Sun, 12 May 1996 22:55:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA25428; Sun, 12 May 1996 22:53:55 -0400 Date: Sun, 12 May 1996 22:53:55 -0400 (EDT) From: Steve H Rose Subject: About the International Association of Sufism (long) (fwd) To: tariqas@world.std.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 16:06:15 -0700 From: International Association of Sufism Message-Id: <199605072306.QAA21381@shellx.best.com> To: tariqas@europe.std.com Subject: Re: Rumi References: In-Reply-To: Precedence: Normal X-Loop: mail@ias.org This message is sent to you as an automatic response of your email to the address info@ias.org. If the auto-response message does not cover your request, please send your request to ias@ias.org. -About the International Association of Sufism- The International Association of Sufism (IAS), a non-profit organization, was established in the U.S. in 1983. Teachers, students and scholars of all schools of Sufism are invited to join in the common purpose of seeking greater knowledge, mutual understanding, and the dissemination of Sufi principles.

The goal of IAS is fourfold: - to introduce and educate people about Sufism in all its varied forms, - to make known the interrelation between Sufi principles and scientific principles, - to open lines of communication and expression between the different schools of Sufism, and - to preserve and advance the study and goals of Sufism. To realize these goals, IAS has developed a network of translators and scholars fluent in English, Persian, Arabic, French, Spanish and German. These scholars are familiar with Sufi expression and are dedicated to the accurate translation of the complex and often elusive Sufi texts. To our knowledge, this is the first association to be formed which enables Sufis from all nations and traditions to establish relations and correspond with one another. Our hope is that this effort will serve to make Sufism known to the world for what it is: a universal knowledge which is open to all who choose to live in peace and harmony. You are invited to take part in IAS and learn more about Sufi principles and activities. -About Sufism- The following explanation of Sufism, the origin of the school of Sufism, and the origin of the word 'Tasawouf', Sufism, are taken from the introduction to the book PRINCIPLES OF SUFISM by Dr. Nahid Angha. The pursuit of truth is the quest for a particular goal, a quest pursued no matter how difficult the path--and for the most important truths, the way may be long and arduous indeed. 'Tasawouf', or Sufism, is the esoteric school of Islam, founded on the pursuit of spiritual truth as a definite goal to attain: the truth of understanding reality as it truly is, as knowledge, and so achieving 'ma'arefat'. In 'Tasawouf' when we speak of understanding or cognition we refer to that perfect self-understanding that leads to the understanding of the Divine. This very logical principle is based on a typically succinct saying of Prophet Mohammad: "Whoever knows oneself, knows one's Lord." The origins of 'Tasawouf' can be traced to the heart of Islam in the time of the Prophet, whose teachings attracted a group of scholars who came to be called "ahle suffe", the People of Suffe, from their practice of sitting at the platform of the mosque of the Prophet in Medina. There they engaged in discussions concerning the reality of Being, and in search of the inner path they devoted themselves to spiritual purification and meditation. The ahle suffe believed that it was the unique human right and privilege to be able to find the way towards understanding the reality of the Divine. As the cognitive tools of ordinary mental logic are limited in their ability to comprehend such a great and all-embracing subject, disputation and all discussions based on language alone cannot open any door to understanding such reality. Instead, such a path of understanding necessitates spiritual striving, the understanding and the knowledge of the heart, in its quest to realize the existence of the Divine. Such an approach separates Sufis from philosophers, and indeed from any other group of scholars whose knowledge is founded upon traditions, words, assumptions, and the imagination instead of the actual and direct understanding of all that exists. Thus the path of Sufis, of cognizant Moslems, was separate from that of the traditional understanding. They became the people of the 'tarigh', or the way; their particular goal was to understand and introduce the esoteric aspect of Islam, as opposed to the exoteric public elements of this universal religion. The principles of Sufism are all based upon the rules and teachings of the Koran and the instructions of the Prophet. To a Sufi there is no gulf of separation between all of Being, the Creator, and His creations. That the multitude cannot perceive this fundamental unity is the result of the impurity of 'nafs' and the limitations of the material and physical tools that mankind possesses. If man were free from the limitations of matter, then he would surely witness this immense and eternal unity of Being. But there is a chance for mankind to ascend to such a level of understanding, a pathway that can be followed through purification and meditation to the realization of its achievement. When one's heart is purified, the manifestations of the Divine is reflected in the mirror of the heart. Only then may man ascend from the level of his animal nature to the level of the true human being. Since all the principles that underlie the instructions of Sufis are based on the Koran, it is impossible to relate Sufism to any religion outside of Islam. Yet the search for true understanding and abstract knowledge of reality is a universal quest. As long as humanity endures, so too will the search for such understanding continue. History shows us that every nation and religion has its own way of expressing the universal spiritual quest. -The Origin of the School of Sufism- In order to understand Sufism and its origin we must briefly touch on the elements of studies that have been undertaken in the hope of understanding Sufism, and so examine the accuracy of the conclusions that scholars have drawn. To do so, the reader should keep in mind a few important caveats while studying the information that has been collected concerning Sufism. Sometimes the lack of truly thorough research, or the difficulties inherent in translating from one language to another, have led to confusion instead of enlightenment. As a result, Sufism is often only half understood, with that understanding further clouded by interpretations and the biases of commentators. These limitations have made tracing the road to Sufism's origin difficult, even for accomplished scholars. Even should the scholar choose his sources very carefully, the barrier of language yet remains, an important factor hindering the passage of truth. There have been many debates concerning the origin of Sufism and how this school of inner knowledge was established. In seeking the spiritual and intellectual ancestry of Sufism, some have looked toward Greek philosophy in general and Platonism especially, some to the Hermetic Christianity of the gnostics of the late Roman Empire, and others to Buddhism or Yogism. But Sufism, as it has been practiced since its birth, is quite a different school of belief, practice, and goal than any of these pre-existing ways of thinking. Even though Sufism as the school of spiritual knowledge based on self cognition as the door toward understanding the realities of Being is a school open to all humanity, but it was born out of Islam and is the heir to the treasures of knowledge from the sacred heart of the Prophet Mohammad, and has practiced its way accordingly. The actual birth of Sufism as a way of thought and practice is therefore subsequent to the advent of Islam. The history of the origin of Sufism records that during the lifetime of the Prophet Mohammad, fifteen centuries ago, there was a group of pious individuals from different nations who, guided by the Laws of Islam, sought for the direct experience of the Divine. Companions of the Prophet, they were people of principles practicing certain disciplines and meditations for the sake of purification, the realization of Divine love, and the understanding of reality. They were the Lovers of God who sought union with Him through losing the limited self in His Divinity ('fana'), and remaining alive in that Reality ('bagha'). These individuals met on the platform, or suffe, of the mosque where Prophet Mohammad used to pray in Medina, Arabia. They would meet there almost everyday to discuss the ways to inner knowledge, the truths of revelation, and the meanings of the verses of the Koran. Thus the platform of that mosque in Medina became the first gathering place of one of the most influential groups in the history of mankind's spiritual civilization. They were called ahle suffe, the People of the Platform. These individuals cultivated the seed of a school of spiritual practice based on knowledge of the self, and thus free of the trappings of tradition and superstition, a knowledge of the inner heart apart from the customary beliefs of their contemporary society as well as those of future civilizations. It is from this group that all the schools of Sufism that have ever existed owe their origin, for by pursuing the path of unsullied inner knowledge they were the founders of Sufism, and the binding link between its subsequent developments. Among the most famous were: Salman Farsi, Ammar Yasser, Balla'al, and Abdullah Masoud; some historians have added Oveyse Gharani to this list as well. Avoiding proselytizing among the multitude, their gatherings were held in private, open only to true seekers of reality. Instead of preaching in public, these pious individuals were searchers for truth, not performers of rhetoric. After the Prophet passed away, each of the people of suffe returned to his homeland to instruct students eager to follow upon the path of inner knowledge. There they became the great missionaries of Islam. History shows that within a century or two their style of self understanding and discipline were introduced by their students to nations as diverse and widely separated as Persia, India, Indonesia, Syria, Egypt, Mesopotamia, and North Africa. Their teachings were based on individual understanding and direct experience, not just on particular texts or rote learning. In this manner their fundamental teachings have been preserved in their style up to the present, instead of withering away into the empty formulas of scholasticism. Through this process of diffusion, different schools and orders of Sufism gradually emerged from the single original group of suffe at Medina. Their practices differ from one another in emphasis and doctrine, but all legitimate Sufi schools trace their ultimate origins back to the original group of the Prophet's spiritual disciples. -The Origin of the Word 'Tasawouf', Sufism- A majority of scholars believe that the word 'Tasawouf' derives from the word "suf", which means wool. This assumption is based on a story told regarding the reason for wearing woolen garments by the pious people of the first century of Islam. It has been narrated that the Prophet and faithful Moslems wore garments of wool to denote their detachment from the world and simplicity in living. Within a century after the emergence of Islam, Arabs, who were mainly desert peoples, had conquered great empires such as Persia and Egypt. These conquering Arabs surrounded themselves with a luxury hitherto unknown to them in their spartan desert lives. The more pious individuals of the Moslem community feared that the message of Islam was in danger of being completely lost through the decadent example of these Arab conquerors who professed to spread the Prophet's words. Looking back to the severe simplicity of Islam's beginnings, and remembering those early pious Moslems of Medina, they decided to clothe themselves in rough wool as a gesture of protest against the profligacies of their leaders. Guarding themselves against the temptations of luxury, they set themselves apart from the lower material life. These pious ones performed fasting, mortification, and denied themselves the pleasures of material life to the greatest extent possible. Wearing wool thus became a part of the discipline connected to Sufism. But even though Sufis wore suf, wool, from the very beginning of Islam, the word "Sufism", according to Arab grammar, is not a derivative of the word suf, and not whoever wears suf is a Sufi. Or as Sheikh Saadi, a great Persian poet and sage said: The goal of the people of the inner path is not their outer garments Serve the King yet remain a Sufi Other scholars believe that the word "Sufi" derives from the word "sufateh", the name of a thin plant. Sufis were usually thin because of extreme mortification and fasting. Thus they were likened to sufateh as symbol for their emaciation. But, as in the preceding theory, this assumption is not linguistically or grammatically correct. Another group of scholars claim that the word "Sufism" is a derivative from the Greek word "Soph", meaning wisdom or knowledge. But this assumption does not seem right either. Aside from the different spellings, Sufis, and especially the Sufis of the first few centuries, denied that philosophy could be a fitting tool for understanding reality, since through its reliance on verbal descriptions and limited reasoning philosophy would actually obscure rather than reveal the truth or reality. For example, Rumi says: Those who only reason have wooden legs And wooden legs give an unsteady gait. Or Sanai, another great Sufi (12th century) says: Do not call philosophy religion And do not call the ignorant wise. Even though Sufis were learned individuals, still we cannot equate "Sufism" with "philosophy" and "Sufi" with "philosopher", for their foundations of knowledge and practices were very different. And as well, linguistics reveals that this attempted derivation is mistaken. Unfortunately, this mistake has perpetuated itself throughout much of the research regarding the origin of the word "Sufism", recurring over and over again. The reason lies in the unfamiliarity of the researchers not only with the beliefs and mentality of the Sufis, but also with the nuances of the Arabic language. There is also yet another idea regarding the word Sufism. It seems that before the time of the Prophet Mohammad there was a group of very pious people who worked as the servants of the Kaaba. These people were called "Sufe". Their practices included mortification and the avoidance of any physical pleasures. Some assume that the word "Sufism" is a derivative from the word "Sufe", but this assumption does not bear close examination, as the rules of Arabic grammar as well as the different styles of the practice make its fallacy evident. Some Sufis have practiced mortification, but this discipline has not been a general rule in Sufism, while others disapprove of any kind of mortification. Etymologically, "Sufi" is not a derivative of the word Sufe; historically Sufis were a group of Moslem intellectuals forming a School of an inner path based on the instructions of the Prophet Mohammad and the teachings of the Koran. Necessarily, this school had to be established after the advent of Islam and not before. Even though many efforts have been made to discover the origin of the word, they do not give us a clear understanding about the word 'Tasawouf'. It would seem that understanding the origin of Sufism, either the school or the word it denotes, is as mysterious as the whole practice of the Sufis. There are also other explanations about Sufism which are all literary descriptions based on the practices of the Sufis. I will mention some as follows: Sufism is piety and the purifying of the heart; it is avoiding bad temper and base qualities; it is remembering God; it is an essence without form; it is annihilation in the Almighty; it is secret; it is inner purity; it is closeness to reality; it is eternal life. The Sufi is a person of principles; or he is absent from himself and present with God. Each one of these descriptions refers to a discipline and practice performed by Sufis; none embraces all the essence of Sufism. Our examination of the various attempts to account for the origin of the word Sufism shows the limitations of traditional scholarly inquiry when it attempts to approach the Divine. This reflects the greater difficulty of academic research in attempting to explain a way of understanding that transcends the limits of human knowledge. It would seem that despite the efforts of many scholars, we come to the understanding that actually no one knows the origin of the word 'Tasawouf'--and , it might be added, the full reality of Sufism as well. Just as Sufism cannot be explained in terms of earlier gnostic schools, so it appears that Sufism is not a word derived from a pre-existing root word; the school of Sufism is not an explanation of a practice. And its believers are those who have mastered profound and mysterious principles introduced by Islam, principles never classified before. The attempt of this brief work is to outline some of the doctrines that are essential to Sufism and most especially those principles which, when practiced and perfected, can make an individual cognizant in the realm of inner traveling. Sufism is best understood when we learn about it through the explanation of one of the most influential figures among Sufis. He reveals the mystery of the word Sufism ('Tasawouf') as well as introducing those principles which make a seeker a Sufi. This teacher, Imam Ali, was the cousin and the son-in-law of the Prophet Mohammad. Historians have recorded that he was the only child born in the House of God, Kaaba. In the same house, he died with equal grace and dignity. Amir-al-Moumenin Ali was the first man who believed in Islam. He was the heir of the heritage of the prophecy whose guidance throughout the fifteen centuries of the life of Sufism has been the greatest inspiration for many. It has been narrated from the Prophet who said, "I am the City of Knowledge and Ali is the Gate." To Moslems, he is the King of the believers; to the Sufis he is call Valli, the Guide. He is the Light of the way, without which the realization of reality would be an impossible task. Sufism is best described by the words of this mysterious teacher. It is narrated from Amir-al-Moumenin Ali (as well as Imam Sadegh, his grandson) who said that 'Tasawouf' is an acronym of four letters. ('Tasawouf' is a four letter word: TSVF and pronounced 'Tasawouf' in its original language.) Each letter holds a secret representing one stage or quality of a Sufi. Together the word TSVF makes the twelve Principles; one who perfects these principles is a Sufi. T, the first letter stands for three practices of 'Tark' (abandonment); 'Tubeh' (repentance); and 'Tugha' (virtue) S, the second letter of the word stands for another three qualities to be perfected by a 'salek': 'Sabr' (patience); 'Sedgh' (truthfulness and honesty); and 'Safa' (purity). V, the third letter stands for: 'Vud' (love); 'Verd' ('Zekr' and remembrance); and 'Vafa'a' (faithfulness). F, the final letter, represents another three qualifications: 'Fard' (solitude); 'Faghr' (poverty); and 'Fana' (annihilation). During a life of learning, practicing, and teaching Sufism under the guidance and instruction of one of the greatest Sufi Masters of all time, Moulana Shah Maghsoud, my physical and spiritual father, I came to the realization that the door toward knowledge may open to afford a glimpse or two of reality to a seeker, but without mastering these twelve principles, such understanding will not remain clear for long. After passing through many 'chelleh', I discovered that each stage of these disciplines opens up a new door to the eternal graceful knowledge, and so reveals a new secret. It is only through perfecting these stages that the seeker can break the boundary of the limited self and remain not a solitary drop from the ocean of life, but become one with the ocean itself and experience the meaning of the magnificent Message of the 'la illaha illa Allah': that there is no limited self, everything is the Existence, the Eternal, God, Allah. It is then that Existence after complete annihilation of the Sufi remains as it truly is, without cover, without secret. When the curtain of illusion fell there was only One, no one but God. Many times I have been asked what exactly each practice means and what are the appropriate manners, disciplines, and qualities that a 'salek' must have in order to attain mastery and so become a part of this spiritual path. Therefore, in each chapter I have explained the meaning of each practice and related disciplines and manners. Many times I have referred to the wisdom of the ancient Sufis, since without the guidance of the teachers no path can be successfully traversed. Each principle directs the individual towards the path of recognition of the essence within, the essence hidden behind the veils of change and the curtains of uncertainty. The aim of any intelligent human being should be found in the foundation of the truth of stable tranquillity and undisturbed survival, the goal of the final quest. To achieve such a goal one must free oneself from the imprisonment of the boundary of change and find a way to return to one's essential being and find the source of the infinite knowledge within. It is only that pure essence of the self that is made manifest in the book of Being, where each word reveals a secret and every letter is engraved upon the face of Being, illuminating the image of the perfect human. As movements do not represent life, likewise change is not the being of existence, and whosoever stands on his feet is not necessarily the "Perfect Human", the Perfect Human who stands upon the heights of Sufism. I have attempted to explain each Principle as completely as the limitation of words and space permits; the rest depends upon you who have to search within yourself. You are the subject of the Divine Book, ask for yourself. It is you, whom you are looking for. Nahid Angha February 4th, 1991 From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Mon May 13 03:47:30 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA21827; Mon, 13 May 1996 00:00:29 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id XAA02860; Sun, 12 May 1996 23:48:24 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id XAA02849; Sun, 12 May 1996 23:48:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA16602; Sun, 12 May 1996 23:47:31 -0400 Date: Sun, 12 May 1996 23:47:30 -0400 (EDT) From: Steve H Rose Subject: Has anyone read Dr. Annemarie Schimmel's Address (fwd) To: tariqas@world.std.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 18:47:26 -0800 To: tariqas@europe.std.com From: mhermansen@sdsu.edu (marcia hermansen) Dear Morteza, My friend in Germany confirmed that you can write to Prof Schimmel at the Orientalisches Seminar, Bonn University Regina Pacis Weg 7 53113 Bonn Germany Khuda Hafiz, M. Hermansen From Majordomo-Owner@world.std.com Mon May 13 04:16:14 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA28374; Mon, 13 May 1996 00:16:15 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id AAA06428; Mon, 13 May 1996 00:16:14 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 00:16:14 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199605130416.AAA06428@europe.std.com> X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to Majordomo-Owner@world.std.com using -f To: tariqas-approval@world.std.com From: Majordomo@world.std.com Subject: SUBSCRIBE tariqas Reply-To: Majordomo@world.std.com Status: RO X-Status: -- mhermansen@sdsu.edu has been added to tariqas. No action is required on your part. From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Mon May 13 04:03:54 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA04384; Mon, 13 May 1996 00:18:53 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id AAA05192; Mon, 13 May 1996 00:05:53 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id AAA05182; Mon, 13 May 1996 00:05:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA22750; Mon, 13 May 1996 00:03:54 -0400 Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 00:03:54 -0400 (EDT) From: Steve H Rose Subject: Turkish-Afghani Sufi Music Concert May 18 in Berkeley (fwd) To: tariqas@world.std.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 02:50:34 -0400 Message-Id: <960508025031_109091271@emout19.mail.aol.com> To: tariqas@world.std.com Cc: soc-religion-islam@telerama.lm.com Subject: Turkish-Afghani Sufi Music Concert TURKISH AND AFGHANI MUSICIANS PERFORM SUFI AND FOLK MUSIC IN BERKELEY Sufi and folk musicians from both Afghanistan and Turkey will perform together at a joint concert at 8:00 on Saturday, May 18 at Berkeley Art Center in Berkeley. The program will feature two separate ensembles, one from each of these two countries. This rare concert from these two ancient cultures will feature well-known Afghani rebab and dotar player Aziz Herawi with his ensemble; and Turkish singer and saz player Latif Bolat and his 12 piece Sufi Music Ensemble. As a finale, the two groups will combine their talents to create a fusion sound of Turkish-Afghani folk music-a first-time world musical event! Turkey and Afghanistan, both located on the ancient Silk Road, share a long and friendly common history. Their cultures and social structures have many similar aspects, especially with respect to music. Yet, each nation has very distinctive musical instruments and musical traditions. Latif Bolat Sufi Music Ensemble features soloist Latif Bolat, accompanied by twelve very accomplished musicians playing traditional Turkish instruments and including a six piece women's choir. Latif Bolat is a native born Turkish musician who has lived and performed in the Bay Area for the past twelve years. One of the most well-known Turkish musicians in the U.S., he has toured and performed extensively from Vermont to Texas, West Virginia to Hawaii, presenting the original form of Turkish traditional music. Devotional Turkish Sufi music has its roots from as early as 12th century, originated from Mevlana Jelaleddin Rumi and Yunus Emre. The most important characteristic of this music is the trance quality, with its mesmerizing rhythm and devotional lyrics. "The Sound" Magazine says of Latif Bolats music: "The effect is very powerful, very soothing." Aziz Herawi, the Afghani dotar and rebab master, comes from the Southwestern Afghani city of Heart, a prominent stop on the famed "Silk Road" to China. He is also called "Aghasab" due to his direct descendancy in the lineage of the Prophet Mohammed. During the Russian invasion of Afghanistan in 1979, Mr.Herawi spent several years in the mountains lifting the spirits of the guerrilla forces with powerful playing. Peter Watrous from New York Times says of Aziz Herawi: "A raucous improvisatory performance that had the audience clapping along. Aziz Herawi's playing was about abandon and ecstasy, with intense sections of improvisation-always grounded in a galloping rhythm-giving way to delicate, airy moments, soon forgotten in a flurry of heated improvisation." Come and enjoy the beautiful music of Turkey and Afghanistan in this intimate setting-and bring along a friend! Time: Saturday, May 18th at 8PM, Donation: $12 Place: Berkeley Art Center, 1275 Walnut Street, at Live Oak Park. For further information: (510)482-4289 From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Mon May 13 04:49:34 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA14245; Mon, 13 May 1996 00:59:52 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id AAA10656; Mon, 13 May 1996 00:50:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id AAA10640; Mon, 13 May 1996 00:50:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA12133; Mon, 13 May 1996 00:49:34 -0400 Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 00:49:34 -0400 (EDT) From: Steve H Rose Subject: Ibn Arabi (fwd) To: tariqas@world.std.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 21:06:09 +0000 From: Nikos Yiangou To: habib@world.std.com Subject: Ibn Arabi hello, I think you will find the web page for the Ibn Arabi Society very interesting It is at http://www.ibnarabisociety.org regards nick From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Mon May 13 05:00:13 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA22306; Mon, 13 May 1996 01:21:47 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id BAA12091; Mon, 13 May 1996 01:03:34 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id BAA12082; Mon, 13 May 1996 01:03:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from homer26.u.washington.edu by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA14334; Mon, 13 May 1996 01:00:14 -0400 Received: from localhost by homer26.u.washington.edu (5.65+UW96.04/UW-NDC Revision: 2.33 ) id AA111982; Sun, 12 May 96 22:00:13 -0700 Date: Sun, 12 May 1996 22:00:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Lilyan Kay To: tariqasnet Subject: Re: Maryam Jameela (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: asalaam-u-aleikum I would be interested to hear what she was up to as recently as 1993. Lily From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Mon May 13 05:59:55 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA00494; Mon, 13 May 1996 02:00:21 -0400 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id CAA18803; Mon, 13 May 1996 02:00:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA00386; Mon, 13 May 1996 01:59:56 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id BAA18704; Mon, 13 May 1996 01:59:55 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 01:59:55 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199605130559.BAA18704@europe.std.com> X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f To: tariqas-approval@world.std.com From: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Subject: BOUNCE tariqas@world.std.com: Admin request Status: RO X-Status: >From habib@world.std.com Mon May 13 01:59:54 1996 Return-Path: Received: from emout14.mail.aol.com by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id BAA18700; Mon, 13 May 1996 01:59:54 -0400 (EDT) From: Fatima101@aol.com Received: by emout14.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id BAA14468 for tariqas@europe.std.com; Mon, 13 May 1996 01:59:54 -0400 Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 01:59:54 -0400 Message-ID: <960513015952_397652425@emout14.mail.aol.com> To: tariqas@europe.std.com Subject: subscribe subscribe From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Mon May 13 09:30:21 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA00414; Mon, 13 May 1996 05:40:10 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id FAA09926; Mon, 13 May 1996 05:31:00 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from relay3.jaring.my by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id FAA09918; Mon, 13 May 1996 05:30:56 -0400 (EDT) From: maarof@pc.jaring.my Received: from 161.142.2.67 (j5.brf23.jaring.my [161.142.2.67]) by relay3.jaring.my (8.7.1/8.7.1) with SMTP id RAA15260 for ; Mon, 13 May 1996 17:30:21 +0800 (MYT) Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 17:30:21 +0800 (MYT) Message-Id: <199605130930.RAA15260@relay3.jaring.my> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Maryam Jameela (fwd) To: tariqas@facteur.std.com In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: SPRY Mail Version: 04.00.06.17 Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: To label Jama'at-e-Islami, as _an anti-Sufi_ reformist movement, in my humble opinion, is incorrect. Jama'at-e-Islami, like its predecessor in Egypt, Ikhwan Muslimin (Islamic Brotherhood) is a political and intellectual organisation in nature, to prevent the perceived _Western agenda_ on Muslim world. Those two main organisations, so far it seemed, failed to form government it their respective countries. Except in Iran, where the Muslim population revolt against the the so called _puppet government of the West_, attempts by refomist movements in other countries are not so successful. The best example is Algeria where the FIS (Islamic Salvation Front) was banned after they won the the country's election. In Turkey, the Islamic party won the most number of seats, but still fail to form government. In Malaysia, Parti Islam Se-Malaysia won and form the government in the north-east state of Kelantan. The Ikhwan-Muslimin offshoot in Malaysia, Abim, followed a different path of collaborating with the ruling political party. It's former leader is now the Deputy Prime Minister of Malaysia. On Sun, 12 May 1996, Steve H Rose wrote: >---------- Forwarded message ---------- >From: mhermans@mail.sdsu.edu (marcia hermansen) >Subject: Re: Maryam Jameela > (deleted) >Maryam Jameelah came from a reform Jewish family in New York, >became interested in Arab culture and the plight of the Palestinians during >the 1950's and began corresponding with Abu al-A'la Maududi of the >Jama'at-e-Islami, an anti-Sufi reformist movement in Pakistan. She >emigrated to Pakistan at his invitation and ultimately settled there, >beginning her writing career with various tracts critical of the decadence >of Western civilization. etc. (deleted) From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Mon May 13 03:06:36 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA08467; Mon, 13 May 1996 06:20:33 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id GAA14316; Mon, 13 May 1996 06:12:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from greece.it.earthlink.net by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id GAA14304; Mon, 13 May 1996 06:12:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from padenski (padenski.earthlink.net [206.43.133.224]) by greece.it.earthlink.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id DAA14381 for ; Mon, 13 May 1996 03:12:06 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19960513030636.006ae3d8@earthlink.net> X-Sender: padenski@earthlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 03:06:36 +0000 To: tariqas@facteur.std.com From: Ruthie Roberts Subject: Help please Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: Dear Habib Rose, Please, could you assist me in the correct proceedure to use in changing one's address? I am not sure how this is done and do not want to flood Tariqas with alot of attempts at trying to get it right! Thank you for your assistance and kindness. Many Blessings, Ruthie Padenski@earthlink.net http://www.lookup.com/Homepages/77727/home.html From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Mon May 13 13:34:22 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA19175; Mon, 13 May 1996 09:54:14 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id JAA10701; Mon, 13 May 1996 09:36:51 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id JAA10696; Mon, 13 May 1996 09:36:49 -0400 (EDT) From: maarof@pc.jaring.my Received: from relay3.jaring.my by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA06033; Mon, 13 May 1996 09:34:27 -0400 Received: from 161.142.2.73 (j11.brf23.jaring.my [161.142.2.73]) by relay3.jaring.my (8.7.1/8.7.1) with SMTP id VAA09369 for ; Mon, 13 May 1996 21:34:22 +0800 (MYT) Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 21:34:22 +0800 (MYT) Message-Id: <199605131334.VAA09369@relay3.jaring.my> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Fihi ma fihi To: tariqas@world.std.com X-Mailer: SPRY Mail Version: 04.00.06.17 Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: Assalamualaikum my friends in Tariqas The past few days I read a translated version of Fihi ma fihi (It is what it is) -- a collection of lectures, discourses, coversations and comments by Jallauddin Rumi. The translation by Dr Wheeler Thackston of Harvard, titled "Signs Of The Unseen", to me, is "too dry" and does not capture the subtle spirit of a sufi master and poet of the calibre of Rumi. I finished reading the book on the bus (during my daily trip to work), and reading it, reminds me very much of of talks or seminars that provide instant translation, e.g a man spoke but the translator's voice is a woman. Unlike the seminars where the tanslations are usually much better and "beautiful" to listen to, Thackton's translations (I feel) does not convey the "original" Rumi to the readers. My friends, I like very much to hear your thoughts about the book "Fihi ma fihi". I hope to have a clearer understanding about it. Thank you, salam Maaruf From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Tue May 14 10:27:00 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA15871; Tue, 14 May 1996 06:49:51 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id GAA29923; Tue, 14 May 1996 06:27:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id GAA29903; Tue, 14 May 1996 06:27:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from darice@localhost) by yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au (8.7.3/8.7.3) id UAA31000; Tue, 14 May 1996 20:27:01 +1000 (EST) Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 20:27:00 +1000 (EST) From: Dien Alfred Rice To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Subject: Maududi on Tasawwuf Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: Assalamu alaikum, Recently, one person has said that the Jamaat-i-Islami in Pakistan (founded by Maududi) was anti-Sufi. Someone else said it was incorrect to call the movement anti-Sufi. Anyhow, here is what Maududi himself wrote about Tasawwuf (Sufism). So you can judge for yourself. To my knowledge, he was never involved at all with Sufism, but was primarily a political activist. By the way, I think many politically-active Muslims, who are not involved with Sufism, have a similar viewpoint to Maududi about it. However, in general, they are not speaking from direct knowledge about Sufism, I think, but from what they have heard about it or read. I had typed this in to argue in favour of Sufism with the non-Sufi Muslims, but changed my mind. Since I had it typed in already, though, I might as well post it here. Maududi wrote: _Fiqh_ deals with the apparent and the observable conduct, the fulfilling of a duty in letter. What concerns itself with the spirit of conduct is known as _Tasawwuf_. For example, when we say our prayers, Fiqh will judge us only by the fulfilment of the outward requirements such as ablution, facing towards the Ka`ba, the timing and the number of Rak`ats, while Tasawwuf will judge our prayers by our concentration, devotion, purification of our souls and the effect of our prayers on our morals and manners. Thus, the true Islamic Tasawwuf is the measure of our spirit of obedience and sincerity, while Fiqh governs our carrying out commands to the last detail. An _`Ibadat_ devoid of spirit, though correct in procedure, is like a man handsome in appearance but lacking in character and an `Ibadat full of spirit but defective in execution is like a man noble in character but devoid in appearance. The above example makes clear the relation between Fiqh and Tasawwuf. But it is the misfortune of the Muslims that as they sank in knowledge and character with the passage of time, they also succumbed to the misguided philosophies of nations which were then dominant, partook of them and patched Islam with their perverted dogmas. They polluted the pure spring of Islamic Tasawwuf with absurdities that could not be justified by any stretch of the imagination on the basis of the Qur'an and the Hadith. Gradually, a section of Muslims appeared who thought and proclaimed themselves immune to and above the requirements of the _Shari`ah_. These people are totally ignorant of Islam, for Islam cannot admit of Tasawwuf that loosens itself out of the Shari`ah and takes liberties with it. No _Sufi_ has the right to transgress the limits of the Shari`ah or treat lightly the primary obligations (_Fara`iz_) such as daily prayers, fasting, zakat, and the hajj. Tasawwuf, in the true sense, is but an intense love of Allah and Muhammad (peace be upon him) and such love requires a strict obedience to their commands as embodied in the Book of God and the Sunnah of His Prophet. Anyone who deviates from the divine commands makes a false claim of his love for Allah and His Apostle. (From Abul A`la Maududi, "Towards Understanding Islam," translated and edited by Khurshid Ahmad, pp. 90-91.) Fariduddin Rice From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Tue May 14 02:30:14 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA24419; Tue, 14 May 1996 12:01:28 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id LAA13580; Tue, 14 May 1996 11:33:46 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from edumath.math.usu.edu by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id LAA13549; Tue, 14 May 1996 11:33:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: by edumath.math.usu.edu (5.0/SMI-SVR4) id AA09616; Tue, 14 May 1996 09:30:14 +0700 Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 09:30:14 +0700 From: sllcr@edumath.math.usu.edu (Asim Jalis) Message-Id: <9605141530.AA09616@edumath.math.usu.edu> To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Subject: Maududi on Tasawwuf Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: Dien Alfred Rice reported that Maududi wrote: > But it is the misfortune of the Muslims that as they sank in knowledge > and character with the passage of time, they also succumbed to the > misguided philosophies of nations which were then dominant, partook of > them and patched Islam with their perverted dogmas. > They polluted the pure spring of Islamic Tasawwuf with absurdities that > could not be justified by any stretch of the imagination on the basis of > the Qur'an and the Hadith. > No _Sufi_ has the right to transgress the limits of the Shari`ah or treat > lightly the primary obligations (_Fara`iz_) such as daily prayers, > fasting, zakat, and the hajj. Tasawwuf, in the true sense, is but an > intense love of Allah and Muhammad (peace be upon him) and such love > requires a strict obedience to their commands as embodied in the Book of > God and the Sunnah of His Prophet. Anyone who deviates from the divine > commands makes a false claim of his love for Allah and His Apostle. > (From Abul A`la Maududi, "Towards Understanding Islam," translated and > edited by Khurshid Ahmad, pp. 90-91.) This should have been written with each sentence preceded by: "It is my opinion that . . ." Asim From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Tue May 14 15:53:55 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA18243; Tue, 14 May 1996 12:25:41 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id LAA17781; Tue, 14 May 1996 11:54:02 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from epix.net by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id LAA17766; Tue, 14 May 1996 11:53:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lwby-85ppp77.epix.net (lwby-85ppp77.epix.net [199.224.85.77]) by epix.net (8.7.5/8.7.5) with SMTP id LAA11230 for ; Tue, 14 May 1996 11:48:27 -0400 (EDT) From: sarmad@epix.net (James Brody) To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Subject: Re: Fihi ma fihi Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 15:53:55 GMT Message-Id: <319818e7.1472747@mailhost.epix.net> References: <199605131334.VAA09369@relay3.jaring.my> In-Reply-To: <199605131334.VAA09369@relay3.jaring.my> X-Mailer: Forte Agent .99e/32.227 Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: On Mon, 13 May 1996 21:34:22 +0800 (MYT), you wrote: >Assalamualaikum my friends in Tariqas > >The past few days I read a translated version of Fihi ma fihi >(It is what it is) -- a collection of lectures, discourses, >coversations and comments by Jallauddin Rumi. > >The translation by Dr Wheeler Thackston of Harvard, >titled "Signs Of The Unseen", to me, is "too dry" >and does not capture the subtle spirit of a sufi >master and poet of the calibre of Rumi. > >I finished reading the book on the bus (during my daily >trip to work), and reading it, reminds me very much of >of talks or seminars that provide instant translation, >e.g a man spoke but the translator's voice is a woman. >Unlike the seminars where the tanslations are usually >much better and "beautiful" to listen to, Thackton's >translations (I feel) does not convey the "original" >Rumi to the readers. > >My friends, I like very much to hear your thoughts >about the book "Fihi ma fihi". I hope to have a clearer >understanding about it. > >Thank you, >salam >Maaruf > > The discouses have a different flavor than, say, the Mathnawi. Perhaps the writer of the above observations might allow someone to read some discourses to him/her. Hearing is sometimes better than reading. Abraham Sarmad From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Tue May 14 11:20:29 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA04259; Tue, 14 May 1996 15:54:56 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id PAA25858; Tue, 14 May 1996 15:23:29 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id PAA25849; Tue, 14 May 1996 15:23:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CYPHER.TURBONET.COM by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA11099; Tue, 14 May 1996 15:20:43 -0400 Received: from [204.188.48.221] by cypher.turbonet.com (NTMail 3.01.03) id ya060942; Tue, 14 May 1996 12:20:29 +0100 X-Sender: Well333@turbonet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: tariqas@world.std.com From: Well333@turbonet.com (Jacquie Weller) Subject: Rumi's Poetry Speaks of Rumi Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 12:20:29 +0100 Message-Id: <19202940904888@turbonet.com> X-Info: Visit http://www.TurboNet.com/ Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: come let's speak of our souls let's even hide from our ears and eyes like a rose garden always keep a smile like imagination talk without a sound like the spirit reigning the world telling the secrets uttering no word let's get away from all the clever humans who put words in our mouth let's only say what our hearts desire even our hands and feet sense every inner move let's keep silence but make our hearts move the mystery of destiny knows the life of speck after speck of dust let's tell our story as a particle of dust. (from bk. Rumi, Fountain of Fire) Lalla sends Love to you of Tariqas. From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Tue May 14 20:20:11 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA12993; Tue, 14 May 1996 16:48:47 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id QAA12702; Tue, 14 May 1996 16:20:33 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from relay3.jaring.my by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id QAA12675; Tue, 14 May 1996 16:20:22 -0400 (EDT) From: maarof@pc.jaring.my Received: from 161.142.2.249 (j11.brf2.jaring.my [161.142.2.249]) by relay3.jaring.my (8.7.1/8.7.1) with SMTP id EAA09911 for ; Wed, 15 May 1996 04:20:11 +0800 (MYT) Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 04:20:11 +0800 (MYT) Message-Id: <199605142020.EAA09911@relay3.jaring.my> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Fihi ma fihi To: tariqas@facteur.std.com In-Reply-To: <319818e7.1472747@mailhost.epix.net> X-Mailer: SPRY Mail Version: 04.00.06.17 Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: On Tue, 14 May 1996, my friend wrote: >> >> >The discouses have a different flavor than, say, the Mathnawi. >Perhaps the writer of the above observations might allow someone to >read some discourses to him/her. Hearing is sometimes better than >reading. > If Rumi himself read it to me can I understand it?:) From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Wed May 15 03:23:25 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA19142; Tue, 14 May 1996 23:34:18 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id XAA22699; Tue, 14 May 1996 23:19:04 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from argon.GAS.UUG.Arizona.EDU by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id XAA22695; Tue, 14 May 1996 23:19:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from eprice@localhost) by argon.GAS.UUG.Arizona.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.12) id UAA08257; Tue, 14 May 1996 20:23:25 -0700 Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 20:23:25 -0700 (MST) From: Ellen L Price To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Subject: Re: Fihi ma fihi In-Reply-To: <199605142020.EAA09911@relay3.jaring.my> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: Perhaps you need to read a different translation. Try getting ahold of A. J. Arberry's translation. On Wed, 15 May 1996 maarof@pc.jaring.my wrote: > > > On Tue, 14 May 1996, my friend wrote: > >> > >> > >The discouses have a different flavor than, say, the Mathnawi. > >Perhaps the writer of the above observations might allow someone to > >read some discourses to him/her. Hearing is sometimes better than > >reading. > > > If Rumi himself read it to me > can I understand it?:) > > From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Wed May 15 04:34:35 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA23760; Wed, 15 May 1996 00:46:46 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id AAA02816; Wed, 15 May 1996 00:34:44 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from relay3.jaring.my by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id AAA02811; Wed, 15 May 1996 00:34:40 -0400 (EDT) From: maarof@pc.jaring.my Received: from 161.142.239.193 (j3.brf44.jaring.my [161.142.239.193]) by relay3.jaring.my (8.7.1/8.7.1) with SMTP id MAA19158 for ; Wed, 15 May 1996 12:34:35 +0800 (MYT) Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 12:34:35 +0800 (MYT) Message-Id: <199605150434.MAA19158@relay3.jaring.my> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Fihi ma fihi To: tariqas@facteur.std.com In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: SPRY Mail Version: 04.00.06.17 Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: Two mirrors reflect light they are still reflection If Rumi himself read the book Will he say: This is you? On Tue, 14 May 1996, a kind soul wrote: > >Perhaps you need to read a different translation. Try getting ahold of >A. J. Arberry's translation. > >On Wed, 15 May 1996 maarof@pc.jaring.my wrote: > >> >> >> On Tue, 14 May 1996, my friend wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >The discouses have a different flavor than, say, the Mathnawi. >> >Perhaps the writer of the above observations might allow someone to >> >read some discourses to him/her. Hearing is sometimes better than >> >reading. >> > >> If Rumi himself read it to me >> can I understand it?:) >> >> > > > From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Wed May 15 05:49:43 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA17063; Wed, 15 May 1996 01:59:58 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id BAB11246; Wed, 15 May 1996 01:49:46 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from emout14.mail.aol.com by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id BAA11234; Wed, 15 May 1996 01:49:44 -0400 (EDT) From: Jinavamsa@aol.com Received: by emout14.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id BAA22310 for tariqas@europe.std.com; Wed, 15 May 1996 01:49:43 -0400 Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 01:49:43 -0400 Message-Id: <960515014942_294470830@emout14.mail.aol.com> To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Subject: Re: Rumi's Poetry Speaks of Rumi Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: hello Lalla and all, one line in your message dated 96-05-14 23:53:39 EDT, read: >let's only say what our hearts desire >(from bk. Rumi, Fountain of Fire) >Lalla sends Love to you of Tariqas. as if a real invitation, I reply: in my heart is the desire/wish: that peace on earth good will to all men [=humankind] be a truth not a slogan; that all creatures are God's/Allah's and deserving of gentle respect ... ditto. in peace to all, Jinavamsa From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Wed May 15 08:11:14 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA11275; Wed, 15 May 1996 04:12:19 -0400 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id EAA23277; Wed, 15 May 1996 04:12:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA11152; Wed, 15 May 1996 04:11:15 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id EAA23185; Wed, 15 May 1996 04:11:14 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 04:11:14 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199605150811.EAA23185@europe.std.com> X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f To: tariqas-approval@world.std.com From: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Subject: BOUNCE tariqas@world.std.com: Admin request Status: RO X-Status: A >From habib@world.std.com Wed May 15 04:11:13 1996 Return-Path: Received: from austria.it.earthlink.net by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id EAA23181; Wed, 15 May 1996 04:11:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from padenski (padenski.earthlink.net [206.43.133.224]) by austria.it.earthlink.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id BAA10847 for ; Wed, 15 May 1996 01:11:09 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19960515010532.006ab5a8@earthlink.net> X-Sender: padenski@earthlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 01:05:32 +0000 To: tariqas@europe.std.com From: Ruthie Roberts Subject: Help With An Address Change As-Salamu 'Alyakum- Please, I would like to unsubscribe with the address as: padenski@earthlink.net, and re-subscribe with the address: padenski@juno.com. Could someone please assist me in the proper proceedure on how I may do this? Thank you, with kindness... Many Blessings, Ruthie Padenski@earthlink.net http://www.lookup.com/Homepages/77727/home.html From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Wed May 15 15:26:05 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA18858; Wed, 15 May 1996 12:32:35 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id LAA13753; Wed, 15 May 1996 11:26:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from emout15.mail.aol.com by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id LAA13748; Wed, 15 May 1996 11:26:07 -0400 (EDT) From: JZarow@aol.com Received: by emout15.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id LAA03563 for tariqas@europe.std.com; Wed, 15 May 1996 11:26:05 -0400 Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 11:26:05 -0400 Message-Id: <960515112605_294662586@emout15.mail.aol.com> To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Subject: Re: About Lalla/Algeria Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: In a message dated 96-05-02 12:20:07 oudghiri@macs.EE.McGill.CA (Oudghiri Houria) wrote: "I am from Algeria.." I am very much interested in learning about Sufi presence, practice, and common perceptions of Sufis/sufism in Algeria. Any shared insight(s) will be most appreciated. Thank you. Also, I wish all could know how much it means to be able to avidly lurk on this list even though I am not much of a contributor. My heartfelt thanks to each sister and brother. Peace to all, Jo Anne From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Thu May 16 01:35:20 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA24493; Wed, 15 May 1996 21:40:14 -0400 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id VAA08255; Wed, 15 May 1996 21:40:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA22092; Wed, 15 May 1996 21:35:20 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id VAA07722; Wed, 15 May 1996 21:35:20 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 21:35:20 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199605160135.VAA07722@europe.std.com> X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f To: tariqas-approval@world.std.com From: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Subject: BOUNCE tariqas@world.std.com: Admin request Status: RO X-Status: >From habib@world.std.com Wed May 15 21:35:18 1996 Return-Path: Received: from desiree.teleport.com by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id VAA07712; Wed, 15 May 1996 21:35:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from thnelson.teleport.com (ip-pdx12-05.teleport.com [206.163.122.197]) by desiree.teleport.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA11693 for ; Wed, 15 May 1996 18:35:15 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 18:35:15 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605160135.SAA11693@desiree.teleport.com> X-Sender: thnelson@mail.teleport.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: tariqas@europe.std.com From: thnelson@teleport.com (The Thomas Nelson Family) Subject: Re: tariqas - DEPRESSION unsubscribe thomas nelson thnelson@teleport.com> >On Sun, 28 Apr 1996 22:08:11 +1000 (EST) Dien Alfred Rice wrote: >> > >>Alhamdulillah, at this stage, I feel so incredibly free, >>compared to the hell I lived in in the past. Personally, >>I could never deny the truths I have found in the Tao Te Ching, >>in Zen Buddhism, and in Sufism. >> >>I am a Muslim, and I know that many of my fellow Muslims would >>completely disagree with my "mixing" these different religious >>traditions.... My answer to this is, a drowning man clutches >>whatever is available to him to stop himself from drowning. >>Some of these people may judge me, but Allah is the only judge >>I accept. >> >>Or as another saying goes, don't judge me unless you have >>walked in my shoes. If you have never felt suicidal, then >>you are not competent to judge me. >> >>For those who are having problems with depresion, my heart goes >>out to you, because I know first-hand how difficult it is. >>May God guide you to freedom.... never stop striving for it. >> >> >>Wassalam, your brother, >> >>Farid ud-Dien Rice >> > >it sounds as if, you are Sufi. > >darrell > > > > From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Thu May 16 03:47:56 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA15454; Thu, 16 May 1996 00:05:44 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id XAA24362; Wed, 15 May 1996 23:48:01 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from homer07.u.washington.edu by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id XAA24358; Wed, 15 May 1996 23:47:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost by homer07.u.washington.edu (5.65+UW96.04/UW-NDC Revision: 2.33 ) id AA25751; Wed, 15 May 96 20:47:57 -0700 Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 20:47:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Lilyan Kay To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Subject: Re: Maududi on Tasawwuf In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: asalaam-u-aleikum And nothing against Maududi - who was a great man in many ways - but isn't it a bit excessive to elevate him to the status of being the *only* believer?? Lily On Wed, 15 May 1996, Jawad Qureshi wrote: > > Hello, > > This, though, is of course, also your view of the situation . . . > > Goodbye, > Jawad. > > ____________________ > > "The Enduring One! You are the Enduring One!" > > The most helpless slave of al-Rahman al-Ghufoor al-Wudood: > Jawad Anwar ibn Muhammad Anwar al-Qureshi > > From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Thu May 16 23:05:38 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA03609; Thu, 16 May 1996 19:09:24 -0400 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id TAA23879; Thu, 16 May 1996 19:09:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA01303; Thu, 16 May 1996 19:05:39 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id TAA23199; Thu, 16 May 1996 19:05:38 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 19:05:38 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199605162305.TAA23199@europe.std.com> X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f To: tariqas-approval@world.std.com From: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Subject: BOUNCE tariqas@world.std.com: Non-member submission from [ZIAulHUQ@aol.com] Status: RO X-Status: >From habib@world.std.com Thu May 16 19:05:36 1996 Return-Path: Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id TAA23184; Thu, 16 May 1996 19:05:35 -0400 (EDT) From: ZIAulHUQ@aol.com Received: from emout17.mail.aol.com (emout17.mx.aol.com) by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA29946; Thu, 16 May 1996 19:03:12 -0400 Received: by emout17.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id TAA28986 for Tariqas@world.std.com; Thu, 16 May 1996 19:03:11 -0400 Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 19:03:11 -0400 Message-Id: <960516190310_295843392@emout17.mail.aol.com> To: Tariqas@world.std.com Subject: SHAIKH SERIF ZIKRS NYC HU, Shaikh Serif of the Rifai-Marufi Order of Istanbul will be in NYC and will conduct Zikrs at 7:30 PM May 19th and May 26th to which all are welcome at " Fazil's Dance Studio " on the 3rd. floor at 743 8th Avenue (between 46th and 47th Streets). Fridays he will give Sohbet or spiritual discourse. Now residing in North Carolina Shaikh Serif is the head of the Rifai-Marufi Order of America, and can be reached at: M. SERIF CATALKAYA RIFAI MARUFI ORDER OF AMERICA P.O. Box 296 CARRBORO, NC 27510 919-933-0772 For more information on the Zikrs or Sohbets in NYC call 212-265-4345 or the studio at 212-541-4455, or Email at this address. HU From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Fri May 17 06:58:17 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA23071; Fri, 17 May 1996 03:06:11 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id CAA28412; Fri, 17 May 1996 02:58:31 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from sgi14.phlab.missouri.edu by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id CAA28400; Fri, 17 May 1996 02:58:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from c640429@localhost) by sgi14.phlab.missouri.edu (8.7.4/8.7.1) id BAA29306; Fri, 17 May 1996 01:58:24 -0500 (CDT) Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 01:58:17 -0500 (CDT) From: Jawad Qureshi X-Sender: c640429@sgi14.phlab.missouri.edu To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Cc: tariqas@facteur.std.com Subject: Re: Maududi on Tasawwuf In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: On Wed, 15 May 1996, Lilyan Kay wrote: > > asalaam-u-aleikum > > And nothing against Maududi - who was a great man in many ways - but isn't > it a bit excessive to elevate him to the status of being the *only* > believer?? > > Lily > > > Salamz, I don't think that for one second anywhere in anything that I said did I imply Maudoodi to be the only believer. I would like to know what it was that I said that led to this assumption. In fact, I think that Mawlana Sahib was a great Muslim and a great thinker and a great Da'ee. That of course does not mean that I can not have differences of opinion with him. There are some things that he said that I really don't agree with, but that is not the issue here and is something entriely different. The issue for me is this: when did I say that Maudoodi was the *only* believer? These types of comments I find _*HIGHLY*_ offensive and I would like to know from where this idea came about. Wa salamz, Jawad. ____________________ "The Enduring One! You are the Enduring One!" The most helpless slave of al-Rahman al-Ghufoor al-Wudood: Jawad Anwar ibn Muhammad Anwar al-Qureshi From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Fri May 17 03:46:58 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA19908; Fri, 17 May 1996 13:15:51 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id MAA23762; Fri, 17 May 1996 12:50:25 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from edumath.math.usu.edu by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id MAA23758; Fri, 17 May 1996 12:50:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: by edumath.math.usu.edu (5.0/SMI-SVR4) id AA26887; Fri, 17 May 1996 10:46:58 +0700 Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 10:46:58 +0700 From: sllcr@edumath.math.usu.edu (Asim Jalis) Message-Id: <9605171646.AA26887@edumath.math.usu.edu> To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Subject: Re: Maududi on Tasawwuf Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: Lilyan Kay writes: > I was referring to the previous comment which yours was in response > to, in which someone had suggested that Maududi should have appended > 'in my opinion' to his observation that shari'a and Islamic > practices are essential to the practice of tasawwuf. I guess that would be me. > I found it extraordinary that someone would think that this was only > Maududi's opinion. This seems to exaggerate Maududi's status while > ignoring every scholar of tasawwuf, not to mention all its adherants > throughout history. Not to mention those who are not scholars, not > adherants but who have only read a very little on the subject and > have seen the obvious. Okay, I must confess that I spoke from a position of ignorance. So is this then quite a standard view? That shari'a and Islamic practices are a necessary condition for tasawwuf? Are there "standard" views held by adherents and/or scholars on other issues also? An issue related to this would be that of other faiths. So these would be people completely outside Islam and the shari'a. Is it possible for them to attempt spiritual perfection? > This was what I meant, and I'm very sorry for the misunderstanding - > I should not have appended your post to mine. Asim From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Fri May 17 16:48:28 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA19581; Fri, 17 May 1996 13:15:10 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id MAA23552; Fri, 17 May 1996 12:48:45 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from orion.it.luc.edu by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id MAA23533; Fri, 17 May 1996 12:48:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from stourk@localhost) by orion.it.luc.edu (8.6.13/8.6.12) id LAA54700; Fri, 17 May 1996 11:48:29 -0500 Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 11:48:28 -0500 (CDT) From: Sonia Tourk To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Cc: tariqas@facteur.std.com, Tariqas Elist Subject: Re: Separation of Sexes in Religion In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: On Fri, 10 May 1996, Erik S Ohlander wrote: > As-Salamu 'Alyakum- Wa alaikum assalam > > The reason that men and women are seperated during salah is simple: men > are naturally weak. During our prayers we make prostration, stand-up, > make ruku', etc. A woman in praying in front of a man would distract that > man from his prayer; it is as simple as this. We must admit that the > sexual desire is often very strong, and it is indeed a force which could > be strong enough to distract us from our prayers in such a situation. > > This regulation does two main things. First, as mentioned it forces us to > think only of God while we stand in His Presence. Many imams and > mujtahids have made similar statements throughout the ages. Secondly, it > helps - and this may sound counter-intuitive - to reduce sexism and I'm not even sure it's counter-intuitive. Ask any feminist about mixed male-female math and science classes, for instance. The math and science scores of young women tend to drop dramatically around middle school (the age of the advent of puberty) in mixed settings. Further, it has been shown that generally women/ young ladies tend to go farther if they attend women's colleges; there is none of the fitna-causing stuff that comes into play in a mixed-setting. Thank you very much for your honest reply. I for one am not yet so purified that these things don't affect me. Insha'Allah (God willing) one day I will be, but Insha'Allah even if I was, I would still keep to the example of the Beloved Prophet Muhammad (S) because I love him. Your sister, Sonia > foster equality between the sexes. This is due to the fact that the > chance to objectify women as sexual objects, a violation of Islam anyway, > is reduced because the impetus to do so is removed. > > > wa s-salaam; > > Erik. > > From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Fri May 17 16:48:28 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA21589; Fri, 17 May 1996 13:18:59 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id MAA23886; Fri, 17 May 1996 12:51:06 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id MAA23877; Fri, 17 May 1996 12:51:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from orion.it.luc.edu by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA04433; Fri, 17 May 1996 12:48:44 -0400 Received: (from stourk@localhost) by orion.it.luc.edu (8.6.13/8.6.12) id LAA54700; Fri, 17 May 1996 11:48:29 -0500 Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 11:48:28 -0500 (CDT) From: Sonia Tourk To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Cc: tariqas@facteur.std.com, Tariqas Elist Subject: Re: Separation of Sexes in Religion In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: On Fri, 10 May 1996, Erik S Ohlander wrote: > As-Salamu 'Alyakum- Wa alaikum assalam > > The reason that men and women are seperated during salah is simple: men > are naturally weak. During our prayers we make prostration, stand-up, > make ruku', etc. A woman in praying in front of a man would distract that > man from his prayer; it is as simple as this. We must admit that the > sexual desire is often very strong, and it is indeed a force which could > be strong enough to distract us from our prayers in such a situation. > > This regulation does two main things. First, as mentioned it forces us to > think only of God while we stand in His Presence. Many imams and > mujtahids have made similar statements throughout the ages. Secondly, it > helps - and this may sound counter-intuitive - to reduce sexism and I'm not even sure it's counter-intuitive. Ask any feminist about mixed male-female math and science classes, for instance. The math and science scores of young women tend to drop dramatically around middle school (the age of the advent of puberty) in mixed settings. Further, it has been shown that generally women/ young ladies tend to go farther if they attend women's colleges; there is none of the fitna-causing stuff that comes into play in a mixed-setting. Thank you very much for your honest reply. I for one am not yet so purified that these things don't affect me. Insha'Allah (God willing) one day I will be, but Insha'Allah even if I was, I would still keep to the example of the Beloved Prophet Muhammad (S) because I love him. Your sister, Sonia > foster equality between the sexes. This is due to the fact that the > chance to objectify women as sexual objects, a violation of Islam anyway, > is reduced because the impetus to do so is removed. > > > wa s-salaam; > > Erik. > > From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Fri May 17 12:56:48 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA14216; Fri, 17 May 1996 13:51:37 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id IAA06404; Fri, 17 May 1996 08:56:51 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from homer24.u.washington.edu by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id IAA06393; Fri, 17 May 1996 08:56:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost by homer24.u.washington.edu (5.65+UW96.04/UW-NDC Revision: 2.33 ) id AA29843; Fri, 17 May 96 05:56:48 -0700 Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 05:56:48 -0700 (PDT) From: Lilyan Kay To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Subject: Re: Maududi on Tasawwuf In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: wa aleikum asalaam Br. Jawad First, I am very sorry to have caused any offense. I was referring to the previous comment which yours was in response to, in which someone had suggested that Maududi should have appended 'in my opinion' to his observation that shari'a and Islamic practices are essential to the practice of tasawwuf. I found it extraordinary that someone would think that this was only Maududi's opinion. This seems to exaggerate Maududi's status while ignoring every scholar of tasawwuf, not to mention all its adherants throughout history. Not to mention those who are not scholars, not adherants but who have only read a very little on the subject and have seen the obvious. This was what I meant, and I'm very sorry for the misunderstanding - I should not have appended your post to mine. ma'salaama Lily On Fri, 17 May 1996, Jawad Qureshi wrote: > On Wed, 15 May 1996, Lilyan Kay wrote: > > > > > asalaam-u-aleikum > > > > And nothing against Maududi - who was a great man in many ways - but isn't > > it a bit excessive to elevate him to the status of being the *only* > > believer?? > > > > Lily > > > > > > > > Salamz, > > I don't think that for one second anywhere in anything that I said did I > imply Maudoodi to be the only believer. I would like to know what it was > that I said that led to this assumption. > > In fact, I think that Mawlana Sahib was a great Muslim and a great > thinker and a great Da'ee. That of course does not mean that I can not > have differences of opinion with him. There are some things that he said > that I really don't agree with, but that is not the issue here and is > something entriely different. > > The issue for me is this: when did I say that Maudoodi was the *only* > believer? > > These types of comments I find _*HIGHLY*_ offensive and I would like to > know from where this idea came about. > > Wa salamz, > Jawad. > > > ____________________ > > "The Enduring One! You are the Enduring One!" > > The most helpless slave of al-Rahman al-Ghufoor al-Wudood: > Jawad Anwar ibn Muhammad Anwar al-Qureshi > > From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Fri May 17 17:54:55 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA00930; Fri, 17 May 1996 14:13:52 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id NAA03832; Fri, 17 May 1996 13:55:55 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id NAA03828; Fri, 17 May 1996 13:55:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mhub2.tc.umn.edu by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA16882; Fri, 17 May 1996 13:55:01 -0400 Received: from maroon.tc.umn.edu by mhub2.tc.umn.edu; Fri, 17 May 96 12:54:59 -0500 Received: by maroon.tc.umn.edu; Fri, 17 May 96 12:54:59 -0500 Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 12:54:55 -0500 (CDT) From: Erik S Ohlander To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Cc: tariqas@facteur.std.com, Tariqas Elist Subject: Re: Separation of Sexes in Religion In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: As-Salamu 'Alyakum- The reason why math and science scores drop as you indicated is from the relaization of 'normative' cultural patterns on the part of young women. This is not inate to human nature, but rather a reflection of a society which moves in patriarchial patterns. I am not sure what point you were trying to make with the analogy (sic.), but you are comparing apples and oranges. wa-s-salaam Erik. From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Fri May 17 17:54:55 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA05825; Fri, 17 May 1996 14:20:47 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id NAA03651; Fri, 17 May 1996 13:55:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from mhub2.tc.umn.edu by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id NAA03647; Fri, 17 May 1996 13:55:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from maroon.tc.umn.edu by mhub2.tc.umn.edu; Fri, 17 May 96 12:54:59 -0500 Received: by maroon.tc.umn.edu; Fri, 17 May 96 12:54:59 -0500 Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 12:54:55 -0500 (CDT) From: Erik S Ohlander To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Cc: tariqas@facteur.std.com, Tariqas Elist Subject: Re: Separation of Sexes in Religion In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: As-Salamu 'Alyakum- The reason why math and science scores drop as you indicated is from the relaization of 'normative' cultural patterns on the part of young women. This is not inate to human nature, but rather a reflection of a society which moves in patriarchial patterns. I am not sure what point you were trying to make with the analogy (sic.), but you are comparing apples and oranges. wa-s-salaam Erik. From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Fri May 17 18:15:37 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA24008; Fri, 17 May 1996 14:49:12 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id OAA07419; Fri, 17 May 1996 14:17:29 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from nova.unix.portal.com by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id OAA07390; Fri, 17 May 1996 14:17:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jobe.shell.portal.com (jobe.shell.portal.com [156.151.3.4]) by nova.unix.portal.com (8.6.11/8.6.5) with ESMTP id LAA19283 for ; Fri, 17 May 1996 11:15:38 -0700 Received: (tyagi@localhost) by jobe.shell.portal.com (8.6.11/8.6.5) id LAA01810 for tariqas@facteur.std.com; Fri, 17 May 1996 11:15:37 -0700 Message-Id: <199605171815.LAA01810@jobe.shell.portal.com> Subject: Seclusion of Women (+ Veiling) To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 11:15:37 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.19960417141148.0035c778@worldweb.net> from "James McCaig" at Apr 17, 96 10:11:48 am From: tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com (Haramullah) Orientation: House of Kaos, St. Joseph, Kali Fornika, US -- Kali Yuga X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: 99460517 assalam alaykum, my kin! |From: James McCaig |"Quoting: [...women are impressionable...] |...home and state are not two separate things. Home is the miniature of |the state; and if woman performs a part equally important at home, why |must she not perform an equally important part in the outward life.... |The life in the world is a constant battle, .... The position of woman |in this battle is worse than that of man. It greatly robs her of her womanly |fineness and delicacy of sentiment. Man is more dependent upon woman than |woman on man. From the first moment any child, whether boy or girl, opens |his eyes in the world, he seeks the protection of woman. Woman, as his |mother, sister, daughter, friend, or wife, in every form, is the source of |his happiness, comfort and peace. With all these things I tend to agree, though I think them *cultural* norms, not unalterable psychospiritual or biophysical qualities. |In whatever form man may express it -- in |a crude custom like the seclusion in the East or in many different ways -- |to guard her against the hard knocks which fall on every soul living in this |world of selfishness is the first duty of a thoughtful man. " So first we attend to the immediate shield of the veil, very well. Yet if something does not occur to address that battle and those prejudices, etc., if somehow the world is not made easier for women, then our 'shielding' only amounts to imposing our will upon the weaker so that we may not have to do any work ourselves (esp. if we are part of the adversary). I am grateful for the sentiment that seclusion and veils are intended to be assistance to women, who appear to have it more difficult in the world over- all, and yet I oppose the institutionalization of that shielding unless it be accompanied by an institutionalization of working on the world to turn it toward her benefit, to deal with men's immaturity, the immaturity of the culture and species. It is too easy to impose something on others in order to keep from having make any changes in ourselves, to challenge ourselves to grow and change. Why not, instead of merely shielding women from things we ask her to tell us when she feels these things and then address the *source* of where she feels them? Instead of asking the vulnerable to take up armor against the foe, why not engage the foe directly and work on changing its danger to her? If men are immature, why ask woman to take care of this? Why not address the men, educating them, providing them with examples, ideals, etc.? peace be upon you, my kin. Haramullah tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Fri May 17 18:29:18 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA03300; Fri, 17 May 1996 14:57:21 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id OAA09457; Fri, 17 May 1996 14:30:53 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from nova.unix.portal.com by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id OAA09425; Fri, 17 May 1996 14:30:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jobe.shell.portal.com (jobe.shell.portal.com [156.151.3.4]) by nova.unix.portal.com (8.6.11/8.6.5) with ESMTP id LAA20788 for ; Fri, 17 May 1996 11:29:20 -0700 Received: (tyagi@localhost) by jobe.shell.portal.com (8.6.11/8.6.5) id LAA02821 for tariqas@facteur.std.com; Fri, 17 May 1996 11:29:18 -0700 Message-Id: <199605171829.LAA02821@jobe.shell.portal.com> Subject: Wild Nature and Paradise (was Re: Insects) To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 11:29:18 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <960506110909_529189192@emout16.mail.aol.com> from "ASHA101@aol.com" at May 6, 96 11:09:10 am From: tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com (Haramullah) Orientation: House of Kaos, St. Joseph, Kali Fornika, US -- Kali Yuga X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: 49960517 assalam alaykum, my kin. It was written: |>>>how does one reconcile loving all of God's |creation with using pesticides to kill roaches?<< | By allways being as kind as you possibly can ... somewhere I heard a Sufi |who said that sufis don't do things differently than others, they just do |them with great depth. I disagree this is always the case. Sometimes the special consciousness resulting from mystical disciplines opens minds and allows different ideas and behaviors which were before seen as repulsive or 'wrong'. |And I remember a Sufi who, when a bee stung him, apologised to the bee, when |he steped on a thorn he sympathised with the thorn. So often we swat away |mosquitos in anger, it is not the swating away of mosquitos that is suggested |you consider but the anger. What is the motive in the killing of roaches? Often I have been told that they carry disease. I am unsure this is true, though I can see some sort of relationship between cockroaches and disease (in that cockroaches prefer living environments where disease would also possibly occur). |are pesticides in tune with that motive? Not mine, no. I trap them and send them away to the landfill with the garbage truck in a glass jar. I cannot imagine a more respectful way of saying to the cockroach "this is not your heaven, let me assist you in finding your perfect paradise". Yet look at what I am doing. I am telling this animal what it can do and no, controlling my space so that I exclude other animals who compete and desire different living conditions. Sending them to camps is just as coercive as destroying them outright (with chemicals or a stick). It is done with people too (Kurds, American natives, WWII Jews, etc.). This is also an indicator of our relationship to WILD NATURE, and the Western cultures (religious and non) appear to have a somewhat antagonistic relationship I notice, dominating and destroying that which appears to represent lack of cooperation or domesticity (symbolized, perhaps, by the desire to seclude and veil women who are 'overly passionate' for our limited sensibilities). These subjects touch briefly upon sufism, and yet they are specifics in a broad range of practical and cultural differences. I will not devote much time to it here in Tariqas because I would rather spend time talking of the ideals of sufism and their meaning (abtracted which we may all apply in our lives regardless of our values and maturity), yet I thank you for considering the issues and their meaning to you in your life. peace be with you, my kin. Haramullah tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Fri May 17 11:18:32 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA10972; Fri, 17 May 1996 15:50:50 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id PAA16456; Fri, 17 May 1996 15:22:06 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id PAA16449; Fri, 17 May 1996 15:22:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CYPHER.TURBONET.COM by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA18189; Fri, 17 May 1996 15:18:41 -0400 Received: from [204.188.48.214] by cypher.turbonet.com (NTMail 3.01.03) id pa063091; Fri, 17 May 1996 12:18:32 +0100 X-Sender: Well333@turbonet.com (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: tariqas@world.std.com From: Well333@turbonet.com (Jacquie Weller) Subject: Re: Separation of Sexes Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 12:18:32 +0100 Message-Id: <19183249204690@turbonet.com> X-Info: Visit http://www.TurboNet.com/ Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: IMHO, I think that if a man is distracted by a women in his place of worship, he would be distracted anyway and has not dealt with the root of his problem. The soul of anyone is purifyed from within, not without. If God did not want woman by man's side, she would not have been created. The femenine and masculine can make a sweet and bold design together in worship. Who was it that visited the tomb of Jesus and first witnessed his new state. Who is that Jesus asked for the people to stop stoning, a prostitude. He said whoever has not sinned, throw a stone. Of course no one could. Who is it that poured expensive perfume on Jesus's feet, and the people chastised her, but not Jesus. I'm not saying I am of just the christian faith, I am of many faiths that worship the one God. But I think that God loves us all equalily and wisely. Lalla From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Fri May 17 19:41:57 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA25011; Fri, 17 May 1996 16:12:18 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id PAA19530; Fri, 17 May 1996 15:42:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from orion.it.luc.edu by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id PAA19504; Fri, 17 May 1996 15:42:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from stourk@localhost) by orion.it.luc.edu (8.6.13/8.6.12) id OAA100937; Fri, 17 May 1996 14:41:57 -0500 Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 14:41:57 -0500 (CDT) From: Sonia Tourk To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Cc: Tariqas Elist Subject: Re: Separation of Sexes in Religion In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: On Fri, 17 May 1996, Erik S Ohlander wrote: > As-Salamu 'Alyakum- Wa alaikum assalam > > The reason why math and science scores drop as you indicated is from the > relaization of 'normative' cultural patterns on the part of young women. > This is not inate to human nature, but rather a reflection of a society > which moves in patriarchial patterns. I am not sure what point you were > trying to make with the analogy (sic.), but you are comparing apples and > oranges. To be honest, my point wasn't so complicated. I was trying to illustrate that the separation of the sexes is not counter-intuitive to feminism - the belief that women are equal to men. Women can thrive in all-female environments, oftentimes better than in mixed ones - this is my point. The problem I think we are having in the discussion is a confusion of the true points behind this separation (equality, escaping from arbitrary and hurtful beauty standards, and more esoteric considerations, such as energy flow and harmony) and the way that it has been carried out in practice. That is, ideally, this separation (and other external manifestations of religion) enables growth on the "path" or "tariqa" to God. The external aids in the internal growth. However, recently (perhaps most glaringly in Saudi Arabia and Iran) this beautiful theology has been twisted to oppress women and give an awful name to Islam. What we must react against, Insha'Allah, is these governments and their skewed, self-serving theology. Instead we buy into it, and take this oppression to be a valid part of Islam, and then say "I can not accept this part of the religion. I like the spirituality, but the rest is not for me." Of course, we can only do the things our hearts are ready for; no one (at least no one on tariqas :)) is advocating forcing anyone to do anything. This is why (returning to a previous discussion) Hamza asserted that the Wahhabis (those in power in Saudi Arabia) are "Out" of Islam. He wasn't saying the people who subscribe to this are not Muslim, he was (as fas ar I understood it) simply making the valid point that what the Wahhabis are doing is not in an Islamic framework - in fact, just the opposite; their policies are twisted and disgusting. If you talk to any Arab, or anyone who has spent time in the region, or even anyone who knows anything about the region, s/he will undoubtedly have some horror story regarding Saudi Arabia. The latest one I heard concerned people getting horribly beaten up on Hajj when what they were doing, did not go over well with the Wahhabis. Their offense? Kissing holy ground, out of respect and love for the Beloved Prophet Muhammad. The guards on duty jailed them, beat them and yelled horrible offences at them. What is this? Where is the Islam in this? Where is the love? There is none. I quite admired those (our sister Zaineb among them) who said, rightly, that we can not make judgements on others. What they said only served to further my respect for these people, in their knowledge and respect for this path that we are all trying to get a handle on. Their arguments were sound. I found the whole situation ironic as Hamza was saying "We must reject the Wahhabis because they reject love," and the others were saying, "We must love and accept everyone as our brother and sister." Ma'sha'Allah, I think everyone was really saying the same thing:) Sorry for any confusion in this or my previous post, and a happy friday to you all. Your sister, Sonia > wa-s-salaam > > Erik. > > From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Fri May 17 19:41:57 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA28355; Fri, 17 May 1996 16:18:22 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id PAA20215; Fri, 17 May 1996 15:46:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id PAA20196; Fri, 17 May 1996 15:46:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from orion.it.luc.edu by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA05239; Fri, 17 May 1996 15:42:18 -0400 Received: (from stourk@localhost) by orion.it.luc.edu (8.6.13/8.6.12) id OAA100937; Fri, 17 May 1996 14:41:57 -0500 Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 14:41:57 -0500 (CDT) From: Sonia Tourk To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Cc: Tariqas Elist Subject: Re: Separation of Sexes in Religion In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: On Fri, 17 May 1996, Erik S Ohlander wrote: > As-Salamu 'Alyakum- Wa alaikum assalam > > The reason why math and science scores drop as you indicated is from the > relaization of 'normative' cultural patterns on the part of young women. > This is not inate to human nature, but rather a reflection of a society > which moves in patriarchial patterns. I am not sure what point you were > trying to make with the analogy (sic.), but you are comparing apples and > oranges. To be honest, my point wasn't so complicated. I was trying to illustrate that the separation of the sexes is not counter-intuitive to feminism - the belief that women are equal to men. Women can thrive in all-female environments, oftentimes better than in mixed ones - this is my point. The problem I think we are having in the discussion is a confusion of the true points behind this separation (equality, escaping from arbitrary and hurtful beauty standards, and more esoteric considerations, such as energy flow and harmony) and the way that it has been carried out in practice. That is, ideally, this separation (and other external manifestations of religion) enables growth on the "path" or "tariqa" to God. The external aids in the internal growth. However, recently (perhaps most glaringly in Saudi Arabia and Iran) this beautiful theology has been twisted to oppress women and give an awful name to Islam. What we must react against, Insha'Allah, is these governments and their skewed, self-serving theology. Instead we buy into it, and take this oppression to be a valid part of Islam, and then say "I can not accept this part of the religion. I like the spirituality, but the rest is not for me." Of course, we can only do the things our hearts are ready for; no one (at least no one on tariqas :)) is advocating forcing anyone to do anything. This is why (returning to a previous discussion) Hamza asserted that the Wahhabis (those in power in Saudi Arabia) are "Out" of Islam. He wasn't saying the people who subscribe to this are not Muslim, he was (as fas ar I understood it) simply making the valid point that what the Wahhabis are doing is not in an Islamic framework - in fact, just the opposite; their policies are twisted and disgusting. If you talk to any Arab, or anyone who has spent time in the region, or even anyone who knows anything about the region, s/he will undoubtedly have some horror story regarding Saudi Arabia. The latest one I heard concerned people getting horribly beaten up on Hajj when what they were doing, did not go over well with the Wahhabis. Their offense? Kissing holy ground, out of respect and love for the Beloved Prophet Muhammad. The guards on duty jailed them, beat them and yelled horrible offences at them. What is this? Where is the Islam in this? Where is the love? There is none. I quite admired those (our sister Zaineb among them) who said, rightly, that we can not make judgements on others. What they said only served to further my respect for these people, in their knowledge and respect for this path that we are all trying to get a handle on. Their arguments were sound. I found the whole situation ironic as Hamza was saying "We must reject the Wahhabis because they reject love," and the others were saying, "We must love and accept everyone as our brother and sister." Ma'sha'Allah, I think everyone was really saying the same thing:) Sorry for any confusion in this or my previous post, and a happy friday to you all. Your sister, Sonia > wa-s-salaam > > Erik. > > From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Fri May 17 20:01:36 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA03684; Fri, 17 May 1996 16:27:00 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id QAA23263; Fri, 17 May 1996 16:04:47 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id QAA23254; Fri, 17 May 1996 16:04:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from homer01.u.washington.edu by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA17749; Fri, 17 May 1996 16:01:57 -0400 Received: from localhost by homer01.u.washington.edu (5.65+UW96.04/UW-NDC Revision: 2.33 ) id AA101353; Fri, 17 May 96 13:01:37 -0700 Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 13:01:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Lilyan Kay To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Cc: Tariqas Elist Subject: Re: Separation of Sexes in Religion In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: maybe more like tangerines and oranges - related but not identical phenomena. I think the similarity is, distraction from one's goal by issues of gender and sexuality. ma'salaama Lily On Fri, 17 May 1996, Erik S Ohlander wrote: > As-Salamu 'Alyakum- > > The reason why math and science scores drop as you indicated is from the > relaization of 'normative' cultural patterns on the part of young women. > This is not inate to human nature, but rather a reflection of a society > which moves in patriarchial patterns. I am not sure what point you were > trying to make with the analogy (sic.), but you are comparing apples and > oranges. > > wa-s-salaam > > Erik. > > From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Fri May 17 20:01:36 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA05123; Fri, 17 May 1996 16:29:09 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id QAA22770; Fri, 17 May 1996 16:01:46 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from homer01.u.washington.edu by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id QAA22761; Fri, 17 May 1996 16:01:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost by homer01.u.washington.edu (5.65+UW96.04/UW-NDC Revision: 2.33 ) id AA101353; Fri, 17 May 96 13:01:37 -0700 Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 13:01:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Lilyan Kay To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Cc: Tariqas Elist Subject: Re: Separation of Sexes in Religion In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: maybe more like tangerines and oranges - related but not identical phenomena. I think the similarity is, distraction from one's goal by issues of gender and sexuality. ma'salaama Lily On Fri, 17 May 1996, Erik S Ohlander wrote: > As-Salamu 'Alyakum- > > The reason why math and science scores drop as you indicated is from the > relaization of 'normative' cultural patterns on the part of young women. > This is not inate to human nature, but rather a reflection of a society > which moves in patriarchial patterns. I am not sure what point you were > trying to make with the analogy (sic.), but you are comparing apples and > oranges. > > wa-s-salaam > > Erik. > > From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Fri May 17 22:36:25 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA18767; Fri, 17 May 1996 18:40:45 -0400 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id SAA22813; Fri, 17 May 1996 18:40:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA16978; Fri, 17 May 1996 18:36:26 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id SAA19368; Fri, 17 May 1996 18:36:25 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 18:36:25 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199605172236.SAA19368@europe.std.com> X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f To: tariqas-approval@world.std.com From: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Subject: BOUNCE tariqas@world.std.com: Non-member submission from ["A.K. Zebdi" ] Status: RO X-Status: >From habib@world.std.com Fri May 17 18:36:24 1996 Return-Path: Received: from pilot03.cl.msu.edu by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id SAA19344; Fri, 17 May 1996 18:36:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from zebdiabd.msu.edu by pilot03.cl.msu.edu (8.6.12/MSU-2.10) id SAA33667; Fri, 17 May 1996 18:36:15 -0400 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19960517223624.0066ad40@pilot.msu.edu> X-Sender: zebdiabd@pilot.msu.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 18:36:24 -0400 To: JZarow@aol.com From: "A.K. Zebdi" Subject: Re: About Lalla/Algeria (fwd) Cc: tariqas@europe.std.com Peace: I am from Algeria. This message was forwarded to me by Mateen and I will try as briefly as possible to introduce the facts about Sufism in Algeria. If you have more questions please do not hesitate to ask. (Comments are in the body of the message.) At 12:37 5/17/96 -0700, you wrote: > >----- Begin Included Message ----- > >>From stourk@orion.it.luc.edu Fri May 17 12:05:28 1996 >Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 14:05:23 -0500 (CDT) >To: Mateen Siddiqui >Subject: Re: About Lalla/Algeria (fwd) >Mime-Version: 1.0 > >---------- Forwarded message ---------- >Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 11:26:05 -0400 >From: JZarow@aol.com >To: tariqas@europe.std.com >Subject: Re: About Lalla/Algeria > >In a message dated 96-05-02 12:20:07 oudghiri@macs.EE.McGill.CA (Oudghiri >Houria) wrote: > >"I am from Algeria.." > >I am very much interested in learning about Sufi presence, There are several Tariq'as (Sufi Order) represented in Algeria: Tidjania, Shadlia, Rahmania, Q'adiria (and others). >practice, Sufism as spiritual part of Islam has always been practiced in Algeria and still is. In many cities I visited back home there are groups who meet for Dhikr and Q'asaid (chanting to praise the Prophet). > and >common perceptions of Sufis/sufism in Algeria. For older people Sufism is just part of religion and nobody sees it a different thing, rather respect it and honore people who dedicate themselves to seclusions and worship. Since the mid 1940's a strong Wahabi movement entered the ranks of the educated people who learned the tenets of their religion from Saudi Arabia. The movement got stronger in the mid to late 1980's and started the political game under the name of religion which led to a "bloody" (British and US meanings) civil war. The unstable political situation and lack of safety made of people like me forced exilees. >Any shared insight(s) will be >most appreciated. Thank you. > >Also, I wish all could know how much it means to be able to avidly lurk on >this list even though I am not much of a contributor. My heartfelt thanks to >each sister and brother. > >Peace to all, Peace. AbdulKareem Zebdi zebdiabd@pilot.msu.edu >Jo Anne > > > > > >----- End Included Message ----- > > > From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Fri May 17 20:45:52 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA10746; Fri, 17 May 1996 20:43:31 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id UAA08844; Fri, 17 May 1996 20:31:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from mhub2.tc.umn.edu by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id UAA08840; Fri, 17 May 1996 20:31:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from maroon.tc.umn.edu by mhub2.tc.umn.edu; Fri, 17 May 96 19:31:16 -0500 Received: from dialup-13-c-168.gw.umn.edu by maroon.tc.umn.edu; Fri, 17 May 96 19:31:11 -0500 To: tariqas@facteur.std.com From: "Erik S. Ohlander" Subject: RE: Seclusion of Women (+ Veiling) Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 06:34:39 X-Tick-Nemesis: Chairface Chippendale Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: <319d1a544fcc002@mhub2.tc.umn.edu> Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: On Fri, 17 May 1996 11:15:37 -0700 (PDT), tariqas@europe.std.com wrote... Prehaps the Prophet would agree with you, but the fact still remains that things are as they are. It is nice to see how a simple discussion on why men and women are seperated in prayer (a very simple and straightforward thing) has grown into something much larger. Something which addresses issues which do not have easy answers. The great thing about Islam, al-hamdullilah, is that it has adapted to many diverse contexts for 1416 years. I cannot even imagine the buckets of ink which have been spilt addressing hijab and other such things; but on the other hand perhaps this is what helps keep us sharp and rationally-thinking beings (how wonderful is God's creation). wa-s-salaam- Erik. >99460517 > >assalam alaykum, my kin! > >|From: James McCaig >|"Quoting: > >[...women are impressionable...] > >|...home and state are not two separate things. Home is the miniature of >|the state; and if woman performs a part equally important at home, why >|must she not perform an equally important part in the outward life.... > >|The life in the world is a constant battle, .... The position of woman >|in this battle is worse than that of man. It greatly robs her of her >womanly >|fineness and delicacy of sentiment. Man is more dependent upon woman than >|woman on man. From the first moment any child, whether boy or girl, opens >|his eyes in the world, he seeks the protection of woman. Woman, as his >|mother, sister, daughter, friend, or wife, in every form, is the source of >|his happiness, comfort and peace. > >With all these things I tend to agree, though I think them *cultural* >norms, >not unalterable psychospiritual or biophysical qualities. > > >|In whatever form man may express it -- in >|a crude custom like the seclusion in the East or in many different ways -- >|to guard her against the hard knocks which fall on every soul living in >this >|world of selfishness is the first duty of a thoughtful man. " > >So first we attend to the immediate shield of the veil, very well. Yet if >something does not occur to address that battle and those prejudices, etc., >if somehow the world is not made easier for women, then our 'shielding' >only >amounts to imposing our will upon the weaker so that we may not have to do >any work ourselves (esp. if we are part of the adversary). > >I am grateful for the sentiment that seclusion and veils are intended to be >assistance to women, who appear to have it more difficult in the world >over- >all, and yet I oppose the institutionalization of that shielding unless it >be accompanied by an institutionalization of working on the world to turn >it >toward her benefit, to deal with men's immaturity, the immaturity of the >culture and species. > >It is too easy to impose something on others in order to keep from having >make any changes in ourselves, to challenge ourselves to grow and change. > >Why not, instead of merely shielding women from things we ask her to tell >us when she feels these things and then address the *source* of where she >feels them? Instead of asking the vulnerable to take up armor against the >foe, why not engage the foe directly and work on changing its danger to >her? > >If men are immature, why ask woman to take care of this? Why not address >the men, educating them, providing them with examples, ideals, etc.? > >peace be upon you, my kin. > >Haramullah >tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com > > From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Sat May 18 00:47:00 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA17110; Fri, 17 May 1996 21:04:24 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id UAA10560; Fri, 17 May 1996 20:47:06 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id UAA10548; Fri, 17 May 1996 20:47:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from darice@localhost) by yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA27749; Sat, 18 May 1996 10:47:01 +1000 (EST) Date: Sat, 18 May 1996 10:47:00 +1000 (EST) From: Dien Alfred Rice To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Subject: Re: Separation of Sexes In-Reply-To: <19183249204690@turbonet.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: On Fri, 17 May 1996, Jacquie Weller wrote: > IMHO, I think that if a man is distracted by a women in his place of > worship, he would be distracted anyway and has not dealt with the root of > his problem. The soul of anyone is purifyed from within, not without. Lalla, You are right; it is possible for someone to be distracted by someone of the opposite sex without her or him even being there. However, there is a certain quality to a men-only gathering which a mixed gathering does not have, and women have told me the same thing about women-only gatherings. I think that sometimes these things are good. Especially for a single guy like me, anyhow, in a mixed gathering sometimes my thoughts are not always on the matter at hand, I am human after all. Peace, Fariduddien Rice From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Sat May 18 01:22:46 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA28144; Fri, 17 May 1996 21:32:48 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id VAA13947; Fri, 17 May 1996 21:22:52 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id VAA13942; Fri, 17 May 1996 21:22:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from darice@localhost) by yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA31567; Sat, 18 May 1996 11:22:46 +1000 (EST) Date: Sat, 18 May 1996 11:22:46 +1000 (EST) From: Dien Alfred Rice To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Subject: Re: Maududi on Tasawwuf In-Reply-To: <9605171646.AA26887@edumath.math.usu.edu> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: Assalamu alaikum, On Fri, 17 May 1996, Asim Jalis wrote: > Lilyan Kay writes: [...] > > I found it extraordinary that someone would think that this was only > > Maududi's opinion. This seems to exaggerate Maududi's status while > > ignoring every scholar of tasawwuf, not to mention all its adherants > > throughout history. Not to mention those who are not scholars, not > > adherants but who have only read a very little on the subject and > > have seen the obvious. > > Okay, I must confess that I spoke from a position of ignorance. So is > this then quite a standard view? That shari'a and Islamic practices > are a necessary condition for tasawwuf? My own feeling is that discipline can be good for the soul.... many spiritual paths require some kind of discipline when you are still travelling on the path. I remember in a book Seyyed Hossein Nasr wrote (I think it may be "Ideals and Realities of Islam"), he wrote something like, the Buddhists use a phrase "burning the scriptures." However, you have to _have_ to scriptures before you can burn them.... many people want to burn the scriptures without even acquiring them first. To me, this is like when Rumi said: The Law (Shari`ah) is like a lamp: It shows the way. Without a lamp, you will not be able to go forward. When you enter the path, your going is the Way (Tariqah). And when you reach the goal, that is the Truth (Haqiqah). The Law may be compared to learning the theory of medicine. The Way involves avoiding certain foods and consuming certin remedies on the basis of this theory. Then the Truth is to find everlasting health and to have no more need for theory and practice. (From the Introduction to Book 5 of the Mathnawi, translated in W. C. Chittick's "The Sufi Path of Love," p. 11.) As I understand it, usually you cannot do it backwards.... you have to apply the theory of medicine first before having everlasting health. You have to have the scriptures before you can burn them. :) Rumi writes about this when he says: Passion for that Beloved took me away from erudition and reciting the Koran until I became as insane and obsessed as I am. I had followed the way of the prayer carpet and the mosque with all sincerity and effort. I wore the marks of asceticism to inrease my good works. Love came into the mosque and said, "Oh great teacher! Rend the shackles of existence! Why are you tied to prayer carpets? Let not your heart tremble before the blows of My sword! Do you want to travel from knowledge to vision? Then lay down your head! If you are a profligate and a scoundrel, do justice to troublemaking! If you are beautiful and fair, why do you remain behind the veil?" [From the Divani Shamsi Tabrizi, translated in Chittick, p. 3] However, I also read this recently, and I wish to share it. It is from the book "Fiqh us-Sunnah," compiled by as-Sayyid Sabiq, vol. 4, ch. 6. Sabiq writes: When a man complained, "The laws of Islam are too heavy for me, so tell me something that I can easily follow," the Prophet, peace be upon him, told him, "Let your tongue be always busy with the remembrance of Allah." (Sabiq, however, does not seem to give a reference for this hadith -- if anyone could tell me a reference for it, I would be grateful.) So remembrance of Allah is of utmost importance, and seems to me that it should be the first step before everything else. God knows best. Peace, Fariduddien Rice From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Fri May 17 22:49:05 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA29915; Fri, 17 May 1996 21:39:22 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id VAA14227; Fri, 17 May 1996 21:25:40 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from mhub1.tc.umn.edu by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id VAA14215; Fri, 17 May 1996 21:25:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from maroon.tc.umn.edu by mhub1.tc.umn.edu; Fri, 17 May 96 17:49:06 -0500 Received: by maroon.tc.umn.edu; Fri, 17 May 96 17:49:06 -0500 Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 17:49:05 -0500 (CDT) From: Erik S Ohlander To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Cc: tariqas@facteur.std.com, Tariqas Elist Subject: Re: Separation of Sexes in Religion In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: As-Salamu 'Alaykum- Very well said, masha'allah! I consider the matter closed. wa-s-salaam. Erik. From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Fri May 17 22:46:57 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA00422; Fri, 17 May 1996 21:40:56 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id VAA14080; Fri, 17 May 1996 21:25:04 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from mhub1.tc.umn.edu by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id VAA14076; Fri, 17 May 1996 21:25:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from maroon.tc.umn.edu by mhub1.tc.umn.edu; Fri, 17 May 96 17:46:58 -0500 Received: by maroon.tc.umn.edu; Fri, 17 May 96 17:46:57 -0500 Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 17:46:57 -0500 (CDT) From: Erik S Ohlander To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Cc: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: Re: Separation of Sexes In-Reply-To: <19183249204690@turbonet.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: So you are saying that the Sunnah of our beloved Prophet (PBUH) should be disregarded? Is is up to us to question God's laws? Erik. On Fri, 17 May 1996, Jacquie Weller wrote: > IMHO, I think that if a man is distracted by a women in his place of > worship, he would be distracted anyway and has not dealt with the root of > his problem. The soul of anyone is purifyed from within, not without. If > God did not want woman by man's side, she would not have been created. The > femenine and masculine can make a sweet and bold design together in worship. > Who was it that visited the tomb of Jesus and first witnessed his new state. > Who is that Jesus asked for the people to stop stoning, a prostitude. He > said whoever has not sinned, throw a stone. Of course no one could. Who is > it that poured expensive perfume on Jesus's feet, and the people chastised > her, but not Jesus. I'm not saying I am of just the christian faith, I am > of many faiths that worship the one God. But > I think that God loves us all equalily and wisely. Lalla > From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Fri May 17 22:46:57 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA00767; Fri, 17 May 1996 21:42:11 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id VAA14210; Fri, 17 May 1996 21:25:37 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id VAA14196; Fri, 17 May 1996 21:25:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mhub1.tc.umn.edu by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA24996; Fri, 17 May 1996 21:25:03 -0400 Received: from maroon.tc.umn.edu by mhub1.tc.umn.edu; Fri, 17 May 96 17:46:58 -0500 Received: by maroon.tc.umn.edu; Fri, 17 May 96 17:46:57 -0500 Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 17:46:57 -0500 (CDT) From: Erik S Ohlander To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Cc: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: Re: Separation of Sexes In-Reply-To: <19183249204690@turbonet.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: So you are saying that the Sunnah of our beloved Prophet (PBUH) should be disregarded? Is is up to us to question God's laws? Erik. On Fri, 17 May 1996, Jacquie Weller wrote: > IMHO, I think that if a man is distracted by a women in his place of > worship, he would be distracted anyway and has not dealt with the root of > his problem. The soul of anyone is purifyed from within, not without. If > God did not want woman by man's side, she would not have been created. The > femenine and masculine can make a sweet and bold design together in worship. > Who was it that visited the tomb of Jesus and first witnessed his new state. > Who is that Jesus asked for the people to stop stoning, a prostitude. He > said whoever has not sinned, throw a stone. Of course no one could. Who is > it that poured expensive perfume on Jesus's feet, and the people chastised > her, but not Jesus. I'm not saying I am of just the christian faith, I am > of many faiths that worship the one God. But > I think that God loves us all equalily and wisely. Lalla > From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Fri May 17 22:49:05 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA01174; Fri, 17 May 1996 21:43:55 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id VAA14489; Fri, 17 May 1996 21:28:51 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id VAA14480; Fri, 17 May 1996 21:28:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mhub1.tc.umn.edu by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA25155; Fri, 17 May 1996 21:25:36 -0400 Received: from maroon.tc.umn.edu by mhub1.tc.umn.edu; Fri, 17 May 96 17:49:06 -0500 Received: by maroon.tc.umn.edu; Fri, 17 May 96 17:49:06 -0500 Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 17:49:05 -0500 (CDT) From: Erik S Ohlander To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Cc: tariqas@facteur.std.com, Tariqas Elist Subject: Re: Separation of Sexes in Religion In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: As-Salamu 'Alaykum- Very well said, masha'allah! I consider the matter closed. wa-s-salaam. Erik. From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Sat May 18 02:55:57 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA03409; Fri, 17 May 1996 23:06:59 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id WAA26070; Fri, 17 May 1996 22:53:46 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id WAA26055; Fri, 17 May 1996 22:53:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from argon.GAS.UUG.Arizona.EDU by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA28962; Fri, 17 May 1996 22:51:31 -0400 Received: (from eprice@localhost) by argon.GAS.UUG.Arizona.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.12) id TAA02790; Fri, 17 May 1996 19:55:58 -0700 Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 19:55:57 -0700 (MST) From: Ellen L Price To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: The 99 Names Cards Thank-You Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: Dear Tariqas friends. Several weeks ago we announced a special project we had undertaken to create boxed sets of cards featuring The Most Beautiful Names. Many people from Tariqas helped us raise the money to cover the printing by ordering sets in advance. By now I am sure that you have received your Cards and will have found your own way to use them, work with them, pray with them, be with them. Having "been" with them for many months now, I have just begun to find the exquisite living presence of the Names. I wish to thank all of you again for your support in making these Cards possible, sight unseen. Maybe every act of beauty involves a leap of faith. If there are others of you who wish to obtain a set, the Cards are as follows: It is a set of 102 cards -- 99 Names, plus Allah, an intro card, and a cover card. The Cards are 2.75 x 4.5 in. (the Golden Mean). They are printed on heavy 12 pt. Krome Kote stock with a glossy finish, dark green ink. The back side has an intricate Turkish design imbedded with Bismillah ar Rachman, ar Rachim. Each card has the calligraphy, the Name, the meaning, the number, and a verse from the Koran containing the Name (where applicable). The cards are boxed in a small cardboard gift box with black leatherette finish and a gold band. We printed only 300 sets and at the present time are not planning to distribute them commercially because it is very labor intensive to collate the sets. ( 300 sets equals 30,000 cards! Last night four people assembled 53 sets in two hours, so we're not ready for your local bookstore chain). If you would like a set send a check for $33.00 to: The Living School c/o Ellen Price 821 E. Halcyon Street Tucson, AZ 85719 If you have any questions about the cards, please feel free to e-mail me, Bruce Miller, at: 71762.3320@compuserve.com. You may also contact Ellen Price here via Tariqas or by e-mail at eprice@GAS.UUG.Arizona.EDU Sincerely, Bruce Miller