From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Mon Apr 29 02:05:24 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA13581; Sun, 28 Apr 1996 22:23:16 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id WAA26471; Sun, 28 Apr 1996 22:09:00 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id WAA26463; Sun, 28 Apr 1996 22:08:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from longbow.usace.mil by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA00225; Sun, 28 Apr 1996 22:05:27 -0400 Received: by longbow.usace.mil (4.0/SMI-4.0(USACE 4.0)) id AA09227; Sun, 28 Apr 96 19:05:24 PDT Date: Sun, 28 Apr 96 19:05:24 PDT From: kaye@usace.mil (Kaye McGee) Message-Id: <9604290205.AA09227@longbow.usace.mil> To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: Events in Davis, CA Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: * * * May Events in Davis, California * * * * * * Sufi Poetry * * * UC Davis Whole Earth Festival Friday, May 3, 2:15 - 3:00 The Whole Earth Festival will take place on the Davis campus of the University of California on May 3-5. On Friday, May 3 you are welcome to share in the beauty of Sufi poetry - come to the "Experiential Space", a large white tent in the heart of the Quad, from 2:15 to 3:00. There is no charge for this event. * * * * * * * * * Sufi Gathering * * * UC Davis Experimental College Sunday, May 19, 4:00 - 6:00 Informal gatherings exploring the wisdom of the Sufis continue in the greater Sacramento area, currently being held at the UC Davis Experimental College. The last session for Spring Quarter is Sunday, May 19, from 4:00 to 6:00. Cost is $9.00 for UC Davis students; $5.00 for all others (fee charged by Experimental College). For registration, call UC Davis Experimental College, (916) 752-2568 * * * * * * Events sponsored by: International Association of Sufism 25 Mitchell Blvd., #2 San Rafael, CA 94903 (415) 472-6959 * fax: (415) 472-6221 email: ias@ias.org From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Mon Apr 29 18:37:34 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA21120; Sun, 28 Apr 1996 23:36:12 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id XAA10857; Sun, 28 Apr 1996 23:25:52 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id XAA10853; Sun, 28 Apr 1996 23:25:50 -0400 (EDT) From: aorsellidickson@stingray.ac.cowan.edu.au Received: from eagle.ac.cowan.edu.au by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA16614; Sun, 28 Apr 1996 23:22:09 -0400 Received: from stingray.ac.cowan.edu.au (stingray.ac.cowan.edu.au [139.230.161.10]) by eagle.ac.cowan.edu.au (8.7.1/8.7.1) with SMTP id LAA10572 for ; Mon, 29 Apr 1996 11:19:13 +0800 Message-Id: <199604290319.LAA10572@eagle.ac.cowan.edu.au> X-Nvlenv-01Date-Posted: 29-Apr-1996 11:24:02 -0400; at STINGRAY.ac.cowan X-Nvlenv-Content-Subject: hadith on pillar of light X-Nvlenv-Mts-Message-Id: 89DD8431816C2979 X-Nvlenv-Notify-On-Read: allowed X-Nvlenv-Notify-On-Refusal: allowed X-Nvlipm-Non-Standard: SMF = 000Application-name: PMAIL To: tariqas%world.std.com@stingray.ac.cowan.edu.au Subject: hadith on pillar of light Date: 29 Apr 96 18:37:34 GMT X-Nvlipm-Non-Standard: SMF = 000X-NetWare-UIC: AORSELLIDICKSON Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: This is the third time I try to send this post, hopefully it will not be rejected, Dear Maroof and Jemal Nur, thank you for the most interesting post since I joined the tariqas! it is real food for the soul, and I am specially grateful to you both for offering this hadith and bringing to our attention. I did not know it, and wonder how it found its way on the net exactly at the right time, for me at least. The night before I read this post i was doing the jerrahi dhikr and had the experience of being within a column of light, and it was intensely vibrating, the vibrations seem to have their centre of gravity, their anker, on the chakra below the solar plexus, which surprised me since i normally experience this in the heart ...( but this observation may be of very little value and only be a personal idiosincracy) Anyway,i will offer you the first thought i had on reading this magnificent hadith, which i feel enshrines a most precious and deep mystery ( which perhaps we cannot pierce in any way), with my apologies if my understanding is possibly too narrow or off the course, in this science of vibrations i am a true beginner, so take my words with a lot of discrimination! From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Sun Apr 28 20:53:05 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA28515; Mon, 29 Apr 1996 01:04:50 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id AAA22551; Mon, 29 Apr 1996 00:53:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from cypher.turbonet.com by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id AAA22531; Mon, 29 Apr 1996 00:53:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [204.188.48.212] by cypher.turbonet.com (NTMail 3.01.03) id ma054274; Sun, 28 Apr 1996 21:53:05 +0100 X-Sender: Well333@turbonet.com (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: tariqas@facteur.std.com From: Well333@turbonet.com (Jacquie Weller) Subject: Re: tariqas - DEPRESSION Date: Sun, 28 Apr 1996 21:53:05 +0100 Message-Id: <04530565600044@turbonet.com> X-Info: Visit http:// www.TurboNet.com/ Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: > >Assalamu alaikum, > >I forgot to add "fighting the ego" in my list of >what I did.... I'll put that in as no. 4, and change >zazen to no. 5.... > >So here is my own history towards freedom from depression.... > >On Sun, 28 Apr 1996, Dien Alfred Rice wrote: > >> Here is what ended up working for me.... >> it went sort of in this order, over a period of a few years >> (these are the things which seemed to make a significant difference): >> >> 1. I tried to apply what I found in the above book, "Feeling Good: >> the New Mood Therapy." >> >> 2. After couple of years of practising that, I discovered the Tao Te >> Ching (I liked the Stephen Mitchell version). Trying to apply >> what I found in there made a great difference in my life. >> >> 3. The experience of Sufi dhikr (or zikr), which I learned in >> a Naqshbandi tariqa. Sufi dhikr is very, very powerful. > I would like to add, anyone at any level I think can benefit > from Sufi dhikr. > > 4. Fighting the "ego," the "animal self." I came to a stage > where I could "see" my own ego -- I'm sure that dhikr had > much to do with this. I used to get very emotionally > attached to certain things, which caused many problems in > my personal life. When I could "see" my own "ego," I > could fight it whenever it arose, and from this I found that > these particular unhealthy emotional attachments I had > ("obsessions" is a better word) were from the ego. Fighting > the ego helped free me from it. According to a hadith of > the Prophet (s.), fighting the ego is the greater jihad. > > 5. The experience of zazen, Zen meditation, which is also very > powerful, in my experience. I want to also add that Sufi > teachings may also include meditation (eg. Javad Nurbakhsh's > book, "In the Paradise of the Sufis"), however, I did not > have the opportunity to learn Sufi meditation because of > language difficulties in the tariqa I attended (the Shaykh > only spoke Turkish, which I don't speak). So, I learned > Zen meditation as an alternative from a Rinzai Zen teacher, > since the door to learning Sufi meditation appeared to be > closed to me. > > >I mainly write this here in the hope someone can benefit from >my experiences.... > > >Peace, and my heart goes out to those who are suffering, >keep striving for freedom.... > >Farid ud-Dien Rice > >----- >Thankyou for sharing all of you about what has helped you with depression. I >appreciate all your words, and knowledge, and experiences and will do this. >fighting the ego sounds real interesting. I know one thing that the real self >not hampered with depression, and I forget many time who I am, and that to know >myself is to know God and to know God is to know myself. I have to get through >all these false coverings about what I think is so, it seems. Rumis said some- >sort of like this, when Love came in, my pencil broke. This rumi reminds me of >the definition of the word laconic"someone who says a lot in a few words" God >is some unnamable love that huged me when I was grieving for my dead friend, >and I realize that Love never dies. From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Tue Apr 30 15:52:56 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA17068; Tue, 30 Apr 1996 20:18:16 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id TAA19543; Tue, 30 Apr 1996 19:55:40 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id TAA19530; Tue, 30 Apr 1996 19:55:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CYPHER.TURBONET.COM by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA04613; Tue, 30 Apr 1996 19:53:46 -0400 Received: from [204.188.48.222] by cypher.turbonet.com (NTMail 3.01.03) id na054951; Tue, 30 Apr 1996 16:52:56 +0100 X-Sender: Well333@turbonet.com (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Tariqas@world.std.com From: Well333@turbonet.com (Jacquie Weller) Subject: Sequet Self Date: Tue, 30 Apr 1996 16:52:56 +0100 Message-Id: <23525613806008@turbonet.com> X-Info: Visit http:// www.TurboNet.com/ Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: Poem by the Mystic Lalla Book, Women in Praise of the Sacred Coursing in emptiness I, Lalla, dropped off body and mind, and stepped into the Secret Self Look: Lalla the sedgeflower blossomed a lotus. From Majordomo-Owner@world.std.com Wed May 1 02:10:45 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA16776; Tue, 30 Apr 1996 22:10:56 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id WAA12539; Tue, 30 Apr 1996 22:10:45 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 1996 22:10:45 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199605010210.WAA12539@europe.std.com> X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to Majordomo-Owner@world.std.com using -f To: tariqas-approval@world.std.com From: Majordomo@world.std.com Subject: UNSUBSCRIBE tariqas Reply-To: Majordomo@world.std.com Status: RO X-Status: -- onn.ibrahim@mol.net.my has unsubscribed from tariqas. No action is required on your part. From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Wed May 1 03:47:03 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA23049; Wed, 1 May 1996 00:08:11 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id XAA28855; Tue, 30 Apr 1996 23:48:38 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id XAA28851; Tue, 30 Apr 1996 23:48:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from weaver.weaver.guilford.k12.nc.us by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA13695; Tue, 30 Apr 1996 23:47:06 -0400 Received: by weaver.weaver.guilford.k12.nc.us id XAA05293; Tue, 30 Apr 1996 23:47:04 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 1996 23:47:03 -0400 (EDT) From: Bob King X-Sender: bking@weaver To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: A Simple Thank You In-Reply-To: <23525613806008@turbonet.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: Kind of a quiet spot on the list for now, and it seemed like a good time for me to say thanks -- I'm enjoying this discussion, and this group, very much. . . Bob King From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Wed May 1 04:23:06 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA14015; Wed, 1 May 1996 00:39:26 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id AAA05177; Wed, 1 May 1996 00:25:29 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id AAA05173; Wed, 1 May 1996 00:25:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mhub2.tc.umn.edu by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA00896; Wed, 1 May 1996 00:23:08 -0400 Received: from maroon.tc.umn.edu by mhub2.tc.umn.edu; Tue, 30 Apr 96 23:23:07 -0500 Received: by maroon.tc.umn.edu; Tue, 30 Apr 96 23:23:07 -0500 Date: Tue, 30 Apr 1996 23:23:06 -0500 (CDT) From: Erik S Ohlander To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: Schimmel Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: As-Salamu 'Alaykum - Has anyone read Dr. Annemarie Schimmel's new artice "Eros - Heavenly and not so Heavenly - in Sufi Literature and Life" ('Sufi' #29, Sprign 1996, pp. 30-42). As usual Dr Schimmel has presented a fantastic and multi-dimensional study of an aspect often glossed by other scholars. I am interested in anyone's comments on the article, and will offer some myself if anyone is interested. Maasalaama- -Erik. From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Tue Apr 30 20:29:46 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA15079; Wed, 1 May 1996 00:43:07 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id AAA05722; Wed, 1 May 1996 00:29:48 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from cypher.turbonet.com by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id AAA05714; Wed, 1 May 1996 00:29:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [204.188.48.214] by cypher.turbonet.com (NTMail 3.01.03) id fa055047; Tue, 30 Apr 1996 21:29:46 +0100 X-Sender: Well333@turbonet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: tariqas@facteur.std.com From: Well333@turbonet.com (Jacquie Weller) Subject: Re: A Simple Thank You Date: Tue, 30 Apr 1996 21:29:46 +0100 Message-Id: <04294608006727@turbonet.com> X-Info: Visit http:// www.TurboNet.com/ Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: __> >Kind of a quiet spot on the list for now, and it seemed like a good time >for me to say thanks -- I'm enjoying this discussion, and this group, very >much. . . > >Bob King >----- I'd like to say thanks also. Today has been beautiful with all your warm wishes, and welcomes. Jacquie Weller From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Wed May 1 04:35:02 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA18606; Wed, 1 May 1996 00:53:00 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id AAA06834; Wed, 1 May 1996 00:38:39 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id AAA06822; Wed, 1 May 1996 00:38:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mhub0.tc.umn.edu by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA12923; Wed, 1 May 1996 00:35:39 -0400 Received: from maroon.tc.umn.edu by mhub0.tc.umn.edu; Tue, 30 Apr 96 23:35:03 -0500 Received: by maroon.tc.umn.edu; Tue, 30 Apr 96 23:35:02 -0500 Date: Tue, 30 Apr 1996 23:35:02 -0500 (CDT) From: Erik S Ohlander To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: al-Halweti al-Jerrahi Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: As-Salamu 'Alaykum- Can anyone give me a brief synopsis of the history of the Halweti-Jerrahi tariqa in North America. I am specifically interested in the current structure of the order (orginizational centers, Shuyukh, khaniqahs, etc.). Any help would be warmly welcomed. wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuhu; Erik. From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Wed May 1 09:08:10 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA13168; Wed, 1 May 1996 05:27:43 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id FAA06027; Wed, 1 May 1996 05:10:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id FAA06023; Wed, 1 May 1996 05:10:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from relay3.jaring.my by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA10688; Wed, 1 May 1996 05:08:13 -0400 Received: (from maarof@localhost) by relay3.jaring.my (8.7.1/8.7.1) id RAA17372; Wed, 1 May 1996 17:08:10 +0800 (MYT) Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 17:08:10 +0800 (MYT) Message-Id: <199605010908.RAA17372@relay3.jaring.my> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: maarof@pc.jaring.my Subject: Daud al-Fatani (Part 1) To: tariqas@world.std.com In-Reply-To: <04294608006727@turbonet.com> X-Mailer: SPRY Mail Version: 04.00.06.17 Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: Tariqas is rather quiet and empty at the moment, except for ocassional visits by Bob, Erik and a few others. Well, I guess it's my time time to make a visit... Below is an article I translated from the book "Tokoh-Tokoh Ulama Semenanjung Malaysia" (The Ulamas Of Malay Peninsular). The author is Ismail Che Daud and published by Kelantan Islamic and Religious Council 1988. The sufi tradition (Tasawuf) in Malaysia is part of religious education, especially in pondok education system. (Pondok means hut in Malay). In the olden days, a religious teacher will set up a school hut (thus pondok) and his students/mureeds will build huts surounding it. The teacher and students live in a hut learning community. The students then entrusted to teach new students, thus a community based on learning thrived in Malaysia, especially in the northern part of Peninsular in the states of Kelantan, Terengganu and Kedah; and also the Malay states/province in southern Thailand. A few traditional pondok system still existed in Malaysia, but slowly with the passing of time, death of teachers, the pondok system is taken over by the government. Maaruf Abu Bakar 1 May 1996 --------------------Daud al-Fatani (Part 1)------------------- Syaikh Daud Al-Fatani (1769-1847) By Ismail Che Daud from the book "Tokoh-Tokoh Ulama Semenanjung Melayu" (The Ulamas of Malay Peninsular) Publisher: Kelantan Islamic And Malay Customs Council 1988 (tanslated by Maaruf Abu Bakar) Introduction ----------------- Syaikh Daud's name is well known among the Malays, especially the students of Jawi (Arabic script) religious books in Malay language. His books were popular and in good demand. _Munyat al-Musalli_ for example, even tough fist printed in 1892AD/1310H (Makkah edition) and reprinted since then, is still popular today and source of reference by the public. Unfortunately, not many know in detail about his background. His name appeared twice in national secondary school examination (Islamic History) but his background and life history is still not well documented. His Full Name --------------------- His full name which appeaed in his books is stated as Daud bin Abdullah bin Idris al-Jawi al-Fatani al-Malayuwi. Among te Malays, he is populaly known as Tok Syeikh Daud Patani. (note: Tok is short form of Malay word Datuk (grandfather). Tok in front of a person name is a form of reverence). According to Tuan Haji Nik Ishak Daud of Kampung Tikat (descendant of Syaikh Daud al-Fatani) born in Makkah 1219H, died 6th July 1977 - 19 Rajab 1397H), Syaikh Daud's grandfather, Idris (also known as Tok Wan Derashid or Senik) is the son of Tok Wan Abu Bakar bin Wan Ismail bin Tok Wan Faqih Ali. According to historical sources, Faqih Ali came from Sulawesi (Celebes island in present day Indonesia) and arrived in Patani (in Southern Thailand) in the year 1629 AD - 1049H. Syaikh Daud's mother's name is Wan fatimah daughter of Wan Salamah daughter of Wan Nisah the wife of Tok Bendara Wan Su bin Wan Yusuf (his title was Tok Kaya Ratna Diraja) bin Faqih Ali. Syaikh Daud has four siblings. They are Syaikh Abdul Qadir, Syaikh Idris and Syaikh Abdul Rashid. The fourth is unknown. His Birth ------------- He was bon at Kampung Parik Marhum near kampung Kresik, about 7 kilometer south of Pattani town. According to Haji Nik Ishak Tikat, Syaikh Daud was born in 1183H (1769AD). His Student Days ------------------------- Accroding to Haji Nik Ishak, at early stage of his life Syaikh Daud studied from his family membes who were known as alim (religious). One of them is his uncle, Syaikh Safiyuddin. It was also mentioned that Syakh Daud received his primary education in Pattani for 5 years only, and then went to Acheh (Indonesia) fo two years, and continued his education in Makkah for 30 years and lastly in Medinah for 5 years. Wallahu a'lam. Pattani (now a province of Thailand) in the past was an independent state and a center of learning in the Malay Archipelago. In its golden years, Pattani Darussalam achieved great height in Malay literature, education and Islamic learning. From Pattani came a group of Islamic intelectuals and teachers. Among them were: 1. Syaikh Abdul Kadir bin Syaikh Muhammad Saman 2. Syaikh Abdul Wahid bin Syarif Sulaiman 3. Syaikh Abdul Jalil 4. Faqih Abdul Rahman 5. Syaikh Ali bin Faqih 6. Lebai Abdul Mannan 7. Syaikh Abdul Rashid 8. Syaikh Muhammad Saleh bin Abdul Rahman 9. Syaikh Ali bin Ishak 10. Syaikh Daud bin Abdullah (Syaikh Daud al-Fatani) 11. Syaikh Mustafa bin Muhammad 12. Syaikh Wan Abdul Qadir bin Abdul Rahim. 13. Syaikh Wan Hasan bin Syaikh Tuan Ishak (Tuan Haji Besut) 14. Syaikh Wan Hassan bin Abdullah (Tok Ayah Tok Imam) 15. Syaikh Abdul Qadir bin Syaikh Mustafa (Tok Bendang Daya) 16. Syaikh Wan Ismail bin Wah Ahmad (Tuan Pangkalan Tangga) 17. Syaikh Zainal Abidin bin Muhammad@Ahmad (Tuan Minal). 18. Syaikh Abdul Qadir bin Abdul ahman (Syaikh Nik Dir) 19. Syaikh Wan Ahmad bin Muhammad@Ahmad (Tok Guru Wan Ngah) 20. Syaikh Abdul Rahman bin Muhammad Ali (Tok Gudang) 21. Syaikh Muhammad Saghir bin Ismail Daudy (Syaikh Nik Mat Kechik) 22. Syaikh Muhammad Saghi bin Ismail Daudy (Syaikh Nik Mat Kechik) 22. Syaikh Muhammad Kabi bin Abdullah (Syaikh Nik Mat Besar) 23. Syaikh Wan Muhammad Idris bin Wan Jamal (Syaikh Jarumi). 24. Syaikh Wan Daud bin Syaikh Mustafa (Pak Cik Daud) 25. Syaikh Wan Ismail bin Syaikh Wan Abdul Kadi (Pak Da Ali) 26. Syaikh Wan Ibrahim bin Syaikh Wan Abdul Qadir (Pak Cu Him) 27. Syaikh Abdullah bin Abdul Rahim 28. Syaikh Daud bin Wan Ismail 29. Syaikh Muhammad bin Abdul Qadir 30. Syaikh Tengku Mahmud Zuhdi bin Tengku Abdul Rahman 31. Tok Bira 32. Tok Burmin 33. Tok Beruwas 34. Tok Chuwok 35. Tok Chembar 36 Tok Cha-ok 37 Tok Dala 38 Tk Duku 39 Tok Garak 40 Tok Jakar 41. Tok Kelabu 42. Tok Lubok Bayas 43. Tok Maban 44. Tok Mapat 45. Tok Mat Enggol 46. Tok Semla 47. Tok Seridik 48. Tok Telok Manok 49. Tok Tenibon 50. Tok Yaman 51. Haji Wan Mat Ketitir, Tanjong Patani, 52. Haji Wan Abdul Rashid bin Ismail, Kampung Bandar 53. Haji Wan Ahmad bin Yusuf, Nad Tanjung. 54. Haji Idris (Pak Cu Yeh) bin Abdul Karim, Kg Tok Raja Haji. 55. Haji Ismail(Che Dol) bin Mustafa, Pondok Gajah Mati, Kedah 56. Haji Muhammad Aqib bin Syarif, Pangkal Gerap, Kelantan. 57. Haji Said bin Abdul Salam, Kampung Lama, terengganu 58. Haji Husain bin Muhammad Amin, Kampung Lampu, terengganu 59. Asy-Syahid Haji Abdul Latif, Kuala Bekah, 60. Asy-Syahid Haji Sulong bin Haji Abdul Qadir, Bandar Pattani. Their contributions are enormous, especially in opening religious schools in villages in Pattani or outside Pattani. Not all of them stayed in Pattani. Since olden times, the Pattanis like to travel for various reasons -- a new place to live, teaching, trading or away from Siamese agressions. Some went to Malaysia, Indonesia and quite a number went to Hejaz (Arabia). --Part 2: Syaikh Fatanni's years in Makkah -- (coming -- insha-Allah) ------------------------------------------ From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Wed May 1 11:40:12 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA21419; Wed, 1 May 1996 08:04:53 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id HAA19755; Wed, 1 May 1996 07:43:29 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id HAA19748; Wed, 1 May 1996 07:43:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from weaver.weaver.guilford.k12.nc.us by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA09094; Wed, 1 May 1996 07:40:09 -0400 Received: by weaver.weaver.guilford.k12.nc.us id HAA05896; Wed, 1 May 1996 07:40:12 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 07:40:12 -0400 (EDT) From: Bob King X-Sender: bking@weaver To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: Re: Schimmel In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: On Tue, 30 Apr 1996, Erik S Ohlander wrote: > > Has anyone read Dr. Annemarie Schimmel's new artice "Eros - Heavenly and > not so Heavenly - in Sufi Literature and Life" ('Sufi' #29, Sprign 1996, > pp. 30-42). As usual Dr Schimmel has presented a fantastic and > multi-dimensional study of an aspect often glossed by other scholars. I > am interested in anyone's comments on the article, and will offer some > myself if anyone is interested. > Thanks Erik, this article sounds interesting. I hope I can find it! Along similar lines perhaps, Rita Nakashima Brock's book _Journeys by Heart: A Christology of Erotic Power_ might be of value to anyone interested in reading one author's re-thinking of the role of Eros/passion in personal and moral/social life. May peace (and passion?) be with you! Thank you again for the reference. Bob King From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Wed May 1 15:21:19 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA08683; Wed, 1 May 1996 11:49:04 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id LAA21730; Wed, 1 May 1996 11:23:04 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id LAA21716; Wed, 1 May 1996 11:23:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from weaver.weaver.guilford.k12.nc.us by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA22885; Wed, 1 May 1996 11:21:18 -0400 Received: by weaver.weaver.guilford.k12.nc.us id LAA07480; Wed, 1 May 1996 11:21:19 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 11:21:19 -0400 (EDT) From: Bob King X-Sender: bking@weaver To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: Re: Secret Self In-Reply-To: <23525613806008@turbonet.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: Wonderful poem you posted Jacquie (copied below)! I once stepped into what I guess *might* have been a version of the Secret Self. You know how it is that the unconscious cues up songs that seem to fit what you're thinking? -- one time I had the experience of consciously being in the room where the record player was. A funny and wonderful experience! Bob King On Tue, 30 Apr 1996, Jacquie Weller wrote: > Poem by the Mystic Lalla > Book, Women in Praise of the Sacred > > Coursing in emptiness > I, Lalla, > dropped off body and mind, > > and stepped into the Secret Self > > Look: Lalla the sedgeflower > blossomed a lotus. > > From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Wed May 1 13:32:13 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA11464; Wed, 1 May 1996 18:03:16 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id RAA20647; Wed, 1 May 1996 17:36:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id RAA20637; Wed, 1 May 1996 17:36:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CYPHER.TURBONET.COM by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA22705; Wed, 1 May 1996 17:32:32 -0400 Received: from [204.188.48.211] by cypher.turbonet.com (NTMail 3.01.03) id ma055340; Wed, 1 May 1996 14:32:13 +0100 X-Sender: Well333@turbonet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: tariqas@world.std.com From: Well333@turbonet.com (Jacquie Weller) Subject: Control Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 14:32:13 +0100 Message-Id: <21321350708965@turbonet.com> X-Info: Visit http:// www.TurboNet.com/ Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: Kabir says: The true hero, you will find, Is one in control of his own mind. He, who control over the five senses does gain, Removes the source of problems and pain. (Frome the bk. The MYSTICAl POEMSof KABIR by Swami Rama) >From Lalla with peace to you all... From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Wed May 1 22:29:33 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA25337; Wed, 1 May 1996 18:31:14 -0400 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id SAA00329; Wed, 1 May 1996 18:31:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA24244; Wed, 1 May 1996 18:29:34 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id SAA29805; Wed, 1 May 1996 18:29:33 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 18:29:33 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199605012229.SAA29805@europe.std.com> X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f To: tariqas-approval@world.std.com From: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Subject: BOUNCE tariqas@world.std.com: Non-member submission from [ZIAulHUQ@aol.com] Status: RO X-Status: >From habib@world.std.com Wed May 1 18:29:31 1996 Return-Path: Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id SAA29794; Wed, 1 May 1996 18:29:31 -0400 (EDT) From: ZIAulHUQ@aol.com Received: from emout14.mail.aol.com (emout14.mx.aol.com) by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA23457; Wed, 1 May 1996 18:27:52 -0400 Received: by emout14.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id SAA02918 for tariqas@world.std.com; Wed, 1 May 1996 18:27:52 -0400 Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 18:27:52 -0400 Message-Id: <960501182750_525994892@emout14.mail.aol.com> To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: SHAIKH SERIF AL-RIFA'I ZIKRS IN NYC HU, Shaikh Serif of the Rifai-Marufi Order of Istanbul will be in NYC and will conduct Zikrs at 7:30 PM on May 5th, May 19th and May 26th to which all are welcome at " Fazil's Dance Studio " on the 3rd. floor at 743 8th Avenue ( between 46th and 47th streets). Now residing in North Carolina Shaikh Serif is the head of the Rifai-Marufi Order of America, and can be reached at: M. SERIF CATALKAYA RIFAI MARUFI ORDER OF AMERICA P.O. Box 296 CARRBORO, NC 27510 919-933-0772 For more information on the Zikrs in NYC call 212-265-4345 or the studio at 212-541-4455, or Email at this address. Also, if you wish, join Serif Baba and dervishes at the mehzar of Hz. Baba Bawa in Philadelphia on May 12th after noon prayers. HU From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Thu May 2 17:45:33 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA15825; Wed, 1 May 1996 22:59:05 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id WAA11640; Wed, 1 May 1996 22:33:42 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id WAA11635; Wed, 1 May 1996 22:33:40 -0400 (EDT) From: aorsellidickson@stingray.ac.cowan.edu.au Received: from eagle.ac.cowan.edu.au by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA01998; Wed, 1 May 1996 22:30:58 -0400 Received: from stingray.ac.cowan.edu.au (stingray.ac.cowan.edu.au [139.230.161.10]) by eagle.ac.cowan.edu.au (8.7.1/8.7.1) with SMTP id KAA10226 for ; Thu, 2 May 1996 10:27:36 +0800 Message-Id: <199605020227.KAA10226@eagle.ac.cowan.edu.au> X-Nvlenv-01Date-Posted: 2-May-1996 10:33:02 -0400; at STINGRAY.ac.cowan X-Nvlenv-Content-Subject: Varia X-Nvlenv-Mts-Message-Id: F9C48831816C2979 X-Nvlenv-Notify-On-Refusal: allowed X-Nvlipm-Non-Standard: SMF = 000Application-name: PMAIL To: tariqas%world.std.com@stingray.ac.cowan.edu.au Subject: Varia Date: 02 May 96 17:45:33 GMT X-Nvlipm-Non-Standard: SMF = 000X-NetWare-UIC: AORSELLIDICKSON Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: Peace to all,brothers, sisters and friends, you will probably be aware of the tragedy in Tasmania, Australia which ironically occurred at the time of Eid, I would like to ask you all to pray for the peace of those 35 souls who have been taken in such a way, for those of their families and dear ones who may find peace and forgiveness in their hearts, and especially, for Martin (the young murderer) that he may find in his heart and soul and mind peace and understanding. No miracle is too hard for the grace of Love. Please direct your special prayers for 35 days, and if you can, make a little sacrifice daily towards that end. I notice lately there was quite some talk on this tariqas about violence and mental illness, we can now direct our thoughts onto a specific human context. Unfortunately such episodes are not isolated, but let's try to do our best to heal by love. ++++++++ I take this opportunity for asking two specific questions to all, especially those who have a background in the Naqshbandiya, or in Subud. A new friend of mine who has a background in Subud would like to find out: When /howthe Naqshbandi entered Indonesia (Apparently Pak Subuh, the founder of SUBUD movement had a background in that tariqa) 2. Origins of the Naqshbandiya I have already given Paul( my friend) the Hasan Shushud's book on the Khajagan masters (Masters of central Asia) which was discussed recently on this net,, does anybody have more to suggest? Finally, has Shushud published any other books? Is he still living, if so, does anybody know how to contact him? I was mostly impressed by his introductory pages, and would like to pursue this further... Thank you all, salaam aleiqum rahmatullah wa baraqatu Rabi From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Thu May 2 21:25:15 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA14135; Thu, 2 May 1996 02:28:23 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id CAA13038; Thu, 2 May 1996 02:12:27 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id CAA13030; Thu, 2 May 1996 02:12:26 -0400 (EDT) From: aorsellidickson@stingray.ac.cowan.edu.au Received: from eagle.ac.cowan.edu.au by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA29497; Thu, 2 May 1996 02:10:37 -0400 Received: from stingray.ac.cowan.edu.au (stingray.ac.cowan.edu.au [139.230.161.10]) by eagle.ac.cowan.edu.au (8.7.1/8.7.1) with SMTP id OAA12652 for ; Thu, 2 May 1996 14:07:13 +0800 Message-Id: <199605020607.OAA12652@eagle.ac.cowan.edu.au> X-Nvlenv-01Date-Posted: 2-May-1996 14:12:55 -0400; at STINGRAY.ac.cowan X-Nvlenv-Content-Subject: Kabir the poet X-Nvlenv-Mts-Message-Id: 93F98831816C2979 X-Nvlenv-Notify-On-Refusal: allowed X-Nvlipm-Non-Standard: SMF = 000Application-name: PMAIL To: tariqas%world.std.com@stingray.ac.cowan.edu.au Subject: Kabir the poet Date: 02 May 96 21:25:15 GMT X-Nvlipm-Non-Standard: SMF = 000X-NetWare-UIC: AORSELLIDICKSON Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: Dear , thanks for sharing the lines from Kabir, he is a great mystic and his poetry has a depth amnd a texture that is certainly worth experiencing, or at least, reading.. i was wondering why in 3 months since I have joined this discussion group nobody has ever mentioned him yet. I'll be interested in discussion on his bijaks, my husband is a great lover of his poetry and he introduced me to some, though i confess have never read it with the attention it deserves... i believe he was a weaver of hearts through the web of the mind. By the way, i am intrigued by your name (male or female?) what is the origin, is it L Alla? I am looking forward to more postings from you, thank you, salaam wa rahmatullah wa barakatu Rabia From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Thu May 2 21:32:29 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA19897; Thu, 2 May 1996 02:34:34 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id CAA14012; Thu, 2 May 1996 02:20:59 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from eagle.ac.cowan.edu.au by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id CAA13742; Thu, 2 May 1996 02:18:17 -0400 (EDT) From: aorsellidickson@stingray.ac.cowan.edu.au Received: from stingray.ac.cowan.edu.au (stingray.ac.cowan.edu.au [139.230.161.10]) by eagle.ac.cowan.edu.au (8.7.1/8.7.1) with SMTP id OAA04468 for ; Thu, 2 May 1996 14:14:31 +0800 Message-Id: <199605020614.OAA04468@eagle.ac.cowan.edu.au> X-Nvlenv-01Date-Posted: 2-May-1996 14:20:12 -0400; at STINGRAY.ac.cowan X-Nvlenv-Content-Subject: Lalla and the sirr X-Nvlenv-Mts-Message-Id: 64FC8831816C2979 X-Nvlenv-Notify-On-Refusal: allowed X-Nvlipm-Non-Standard: SMF = 000Application-name: PMAIL To: tariqas%facteur.std.com@stingray.ac.cowan.edu.au Subject: Lalla and the sirr Date: 02 May 96 21:32:29 GMT X-Nvlipm-Non-Standard: SMF = 000X-NetWare-UIC: SELLIDICKSON Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: May message was received: Wonderful poem you posted Jacquie (copied below)! Bob King On Tue, 30 Apr 1996, Jacquie Weller wrote: > Poem by the Mystic Lalla > Book, Women in Praise of the Sacred > > Coursing in emptiness > I, Lalla, > dropped off body and mind, > > and stepped into the Secret Self > > Look: Lalla the sedgeflower > blossomed a lotus. +++++++++++++++++ Dear Jacquie (only now I found out you sent this message) I also am struck with the beauty and depth of this script. Can you tell me more about ? He or she (In Italian is a female name) has certainly stepped deep and far. I am interested in hearing more about the secret self, though possibly these secrets cannot be communicated through words, at least not discursive ones. Thank you for this beautiful gift Rabia > > From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Thu May 2 21:40:51 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA24179; Thu, 2 May 1996 02:46:14 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id CAA14843; Thu, 2 May 1996 02:28:43 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id CAA14833; Thu, 2 May 1996 02:28:41 -0400 (EDT) From: aorsellidickson@stingray.ac.cowan.edu.au Received: from eagle.ac.cowan.edu.au by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA11762; Thu, 2 May 1996 02:25:45 -0400 Received: from stingray.ac.cowan.edu.au (stingray.ac.cowan.edu.au [139.230.161.10]) by eagle.ac.cowan.edu.au (8.7.1/8.7.1) with SMTP id OAA14318 for ; Thu, 2 May 1996 14:22:59 +0800 Message-Id: <199605020622.OAA14318@eagle.ac.cowan.edu.au> X-Nvlenv-01Date-Posted: 2-May-1996 14:28:26 -0400; at STINGRAY.ac.cowan X-Nvlenv-Content-Subject: SUFI REVIEW X-Nvlenv-Mts-Message-Id: A1FE8831816C2979 X-Nvlenv-Notify-On-Refusal: allowed X-Nvlipm-Non-Standard: SMF = 000Application-name: PMAIL To: tariqas%world.std.com@stingray.ac.cowan.edu.au Subject: SUFI REVIEW Date: 02 May 96 21:40:51 GMT X-Nvlipm-Non-Standard: SMF = 000X-NetWare-UIC: AORSELLIDICKSON Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: The article by Annemarie Schimmel, was published on the last issue of Sufi review, this is a publication from the Nurbabshk Press, based on the London Khaniqa of that order. I am in contact with one of their editors, and she is looking for material for publication, especially stories. She is also interested in getting feedback on the published material, so I will keep her posted with any other comments, if this is OK with other people. The magazine is very good and can be subscribed from USA( I believe their graphic artist works in NY) Anybody interested i will give the E/mail address or snail address.(of course it is on the publication). I know some of you, particularly Mustafa already know and have contributed material, perhaps more will be willing to do so. From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Thu May 2 07:07:50 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA20596; Thu, 2 May 1996 11:35:06 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id LAA21223; Thu, 2 May 1996 11:12:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id LAA21216; Thu, 2 May 1996 11:12:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CYPHER.TURBONET.COM by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA02342; Thu, 2 May 1996 11:08:30 -0400 Received: from [204.188.48.212] by cypher.turbonet.com (NTMail 3.01.03) id wa055714; Thu, 2 May 1996 08:07:50 +0100 X-Sender: Well333@turbonet.com (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: tariqas@world.std.com From: Well333@turbonet.com (Jacquie Weller) Subject: About Lalla Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 08:07:50 +0100 Message-Id: <15075093411440@turbonet.com> X-Info: Visit http:// www.TurboNet.com/ Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: Some have asked me about my name Sufi name Lalla what it means and also about the Mystic Lalla. At my ignitiation I was told the name meant Darling, and also humorously my initiator said "a little bit crazy". Now about the Mystic Lalla. quote from Book, Women in Praise of the Sacred, Edited by Jane Hirshfield- Lal Ded, (14thc.?) Also known as Lallesware, Lalla, or Lal Diddi, Lal Ded was born in Kashmir. Married at the age of twelve, she was neglected by her husband and treated harshly by her mother-in-law; after twelve years she left their house to become a disciple in the Shiva-worship tradition of oneness between God and the phenomenal world. Her words show both the unmistakable clarity and the joy of her experience of that union. After completing her training, Lal Ded wandered the countryside in a state of undress, singing and dancing her passionate mystical experience. One story about her: One morning, after a group of children taunted the wandering devotee, a cloth merchant came spiritedly to her defense. She immediately purchaned two bundles of cloth of equal weight from him and continued on her way. As she went through the day, each time someone ridiculed her, she tied a knot in the cloth on her left shoulder; each time someone praised her, she tied a knot in the cloth on the right. At dayu's end, she returned to the merchant, and asked him to weigh the bundles again. She thanked him for his earlier concern, but also pointed out that, as he could see for himself, nothing had changed; whatever praise or blame she recieved, they were of equal weight, and she accepted both with the same attitude of equanimity. >From Jacquie W. Lalla in Moscow. From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Thu May 2 15:40:18 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA12196; Thu, 2 May 1996 12:06:17 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id LAA25379; Thu, 2 May 1996 11:40:27 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from bonjour.cc.columbia.edu by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id LAA25354; Thu, 2 May 1996 11:40:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from zi1@localhost) by bonjour.cc.columbia.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA15611; Thu, 2 May 1996 11:40:19 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 11:40:18 -0400 (EDT) From: Zaineb Istrabadi X-Sender: zi1@bonjour.cc.columbia.edu To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Subject: Re: About Lalla In-Reply-To: <15075093411440@turbonet.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: Assalamu alaykum. In North Africa "Lalla" is a title of honor and respect. The sister of King Hassan of Morocco is called Lalla something (can't think of her name). Also, an Algerian friend of mine who is somewhat younger than me calls me "Lalla Zaineb." :)))) Best, Zaineb From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Thu May 2 15:52:07 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA18913; Thu, 2 May 1996 12:15:38 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id LAA27677; Thu, 2 May 1996 11:52:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from emout10.mail.aol.com by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id LAA27659; Thu, 2 May 1996 11:52:08 -0400 (EDT) From: Hafizullah@aol.com Received: by emout10.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id LAA11117 for tariqas@europe.std.com; Thu, 2 May 1996 11:52:07 -0400 Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 11:52:07 -0400 Message-Id: <960502115207_105068086@emout10.mail.aol.com> To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Subject: Re: Varia Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: In a message dated 96-05-01 22:34:59 EDT, you write: >I have already given Paul( my friend) the Hasan Shushud's > book on the Khajagan masters (Masters of central Asia) which was discussed >recently on this net,, does anybody have more to suggest? > >Finally, has Shushud published any other books? Is he still living, if so, >does anybody know how to contact him? I suggest "The Masters of Wisdom" by J. G. Bennett, recently republished. Sh. Hasan Shushud has gone to his reward. QAS. From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Thu May 2 00:33:52 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA28514; Thu, 2 May 1996 12:29:47 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id MAA29414; Thu, 2 May 1996 12:01:53 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from case.cyberspace.com by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id MAA29386; Thu, 2 May 1996 12:01:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from bdaniel ([206.100.176.133]) by case.cyberspace.com (post.office MTA v1.9.3 ID# 0-11430) with SMTP id AAA7880 for ; Thu, 2 May 1996 09:01:48 -0700 Message-Id: <318802F0.5F29@cyberspace.com> Date: Wed, 01 May 1996 17:33:52 -0700 From: bdaniel@cyberspace.com (Brent Daniel) X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win95; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Subject: Re: Varia References: <199605020227.KAA10226@eagle.ac.cowan.edu.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: aorsellidickson@stingray.ac.cowan.edu.au wrote: > > Peace to all,brothers, sisters and friends, > you will probably be aware of the tragedy in Tasmania, Australia which > ironically occurred at the time of Eid, I would like to ask you all to pray > for the peace of those 35 souls who have been taken in such a way, for those > of their families and dear ones who may find peace and forgiveness in their > hearts, and especially, for Martin (the young murderer) > that he may find in his heart > and soul and > mind > peace and understanding. > No miracle is too hard for the grace of Love. > > Please direct your special prayers for 35 days, and if you can, > make a little sacrifice daily towards that end. > > I notice lately there was quite some talk on this tariqas about > violence and mental illness, we can now direct our thoughts onto a specific > human context. Unfortunately such episodes are not isolated, > but let's try to do our best to heal by love. > ++++++++ > I take this opportunity for asking two specific questions to all, especially those who > have a background in the Naqshbandiya, or in Subud. > A new friend of mine who has a background in Subud would like to find out: > When /howthe Naqshbandi entered Indonesia > (Apparently Pak Subuh, the founder of SUBUD > movement had a background in that tariqa) > 2. Origins of the Naqshbandiya > > I have already given Paul( my friend) the Hasan Shushud's > book on the Khajagan masters (Masters of central Asia) which was discussed > recently on this net,, does anybody have more to suggest? > > Finally, has Shushud published any other books? Is he still living, if so, > does anybody know how to contact him? > I was mostly impressed by his introductory pages, and would like to > pursue this further... > Thank you all, salaam aleiqum rahmatullah wa baraqatu > RabiAlas, Hasan Shushud is no longer among us. Prior to his death he was strongly connected to the Bennett branch of the Gurdjieff Work B From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Thu May 2 16:18:25 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA14019; Thu, 2 May 1996 12:56:26 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id MAA02250; Thu, 2 May 1996 12:18:48 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from finnegan.EE.McGill.CA by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id MAA02196; Thu, 2 May 1996 12:18:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from kirk.EE.McGill.CA (oudghiri@Kirk.EE.McGill.CA [132.206.63.10]) by finnegan.EE.McGill.CA (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA18699 for ; Thu, 2 May 1996 12:18:25 -0400 (EDT) From: Oudghiri Houria Received: by kirk.EE.McGill.CA (8.7.5) id MAA01078; Thu, 2 May 1996 12:18:25 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 12:18:25 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199605021618.MAA01078@kirk.EE.McGill.CA> To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Subject: Re: About Lalla Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: Assalam, I am from Algeria and in my country, we say lalla for women which we respect. For men, we say sidi which comes from sayyiddi in arabic. Also, all the Chaykhs of zaouia in north africa are called 'sidi' for men and 'lalla' for women, as Sidi Cheikh El-Alaoui or Lalla Setti in Algeria. Regards, Houria. From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Thu May 2 23:04:50 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA16505; Thu, 2 May 1996 19:40:46 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id TAA01711; Thu, 2 May 1996 19:05:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id TAA01658; Thu, 2 May 1996 19:04:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from darice@localhost) by yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA03826; Fri, 3 May 1996 09:04:51 +1000 (EST) Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 09:04:50 +1000 (EST) From: Dien Alfred Rice To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Subject: Re: Varia In-Reply-To: <199605020227.KAA10226@eagle.ac.cowan.edu.au> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: Assalamu alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh, Rabia! On Thu, 2 May 1996 aorsellidickson@stingray.ac.cowan.edu.au wrote: About the massacre in Tasmania, the person charged with the crime is believed to be mentally ill (I don't remember exactly in which way, however).... many people are shocked that he could legally get the semi-automatic weapons he used. [...] > I take this opportunity for asking two specific questions to all, especially those who > have a background in the Naqshbandiya, or in Subud. [...] I can't really help with your questions, but I am starting to get curious about Subud, so I am looking forward to any replies. I noticed that Muhtar Holland, who has translated a number of Sufi books (such as books by Abdul-Qadir Jilani), got his start (and his name, "Muhtar") in Subud. Wassalam, Farid ud-Dien Rice From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Thu May 2 22:56:46 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA22676; Thu, 2 May 1996 19:54:46 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id SAA01000; Thu, 2 May 1996 18:59:42 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id SAA00992; Thu, 2 May 1996 18:59:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from relay3.jaring.my by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA24731; Thu, 2 May 1996 18:56:51 -0400 Received: (from maarof@localhost) by relay3.jaring.my (8.7.1/8.7.1) id GAA12392; Fri, 3 May 1996 06:56:46 +0800 (MYT) Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 06:56:46 +0800 (MYT) Message-Id: <199605022256.GAA12392@relay3.jaring.my> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: maarof@pc.jaring.my Subject: Origin (Naqshbandi in Indonesia) To: tariqas@world.std.com In-Reply-To: <199605020227.KAA10226@eagle.ac.cowan.edu.au> X-Mailer: SPRY Mail Version: 04.00.06.17 Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: On 02 May 96, aorsellidickson@stingray.ac.cowan.edu.au wrote: (parts of it) >... .... >I take this opportunity for asking two specific questions to all, especially those who >have a background in the Naqshbandiya, or in Subud. >A new friend of mine who has a background in Subud would like to find out: >When /howthe Naqshbandi entered Indonesia > (Apparently Pak Subuh, the founder of SUBUD >movement had a background in that tariqa) .... .. >Rabi Assalamulaikum, A book _Pengantar Ilmu tarekat dan tasauf_ (Introduction to Tariqas and Tasawwuf) by Prof. Dr. Hj Aboebakar Atjeh (Pustaka Aman Press, 2nd edn 1985) provide little information about the spread of Naqshbandiya in Indonesia. According to Hj Aboebakar, the earliest tariqa to enter Indonesia is Rifa'iyah in Acheh, Sumatera. It then spread to Bantam/Riau islands. In Java, the dominat tariqa is Qadiriyah (Abdul Qadir Jailani) In Central Sumatera, especially the hill regions of Minangkabau, Naqshbandi is quite dominant, especially due to Syeikh Ismail Al-Khalidi Al-Kurdi. The branch of Naqshbandi is referred to as Naksyabandiyah Khalidiyah. A famous sufi figure in Indonesia and the Malay world is Syeikh Yuusuf Al-Khalawati Al-Makasari. This sufi warrior was the army commander of Sultan Bantam. He travelled to Yemen, Hejaz, Istanbul and Damascus and met with grand sufis of those counties. Syeikh Yusuf was among the leaders in the fight against Dutch, and was caught and sent to Ceylon, and then to South Afica, where he died in 1694. Syeikh Yusuf was the first to bring Khalawatiyah tariqa to Indoensia, through Bantam. Syattariyah spread to the Western coastal plain of Sumatera, thru the effort of Syeih Abdurauf Singkil in Acheh during the reign of Sultan Iskandar Muda, and Abdurauf's student, Syeikh Burhanuddin Ulakan in Central Sumatera. Ulamas from Hadhramaut (emen) spred two new tariqas to Indonesia, Al-'Aidurusiyah and Al-Haddadiyah. These are the earliest tariqas to enter Indonesia and the Malay archipelago. About the years these tariqas enter South-east Asia probably with the rise of Muslim states in the region, with Malacca already well-known as a major regional trading center in the 15th century when attacked and conquered by the Portuguese. Well, these informations are from layman point of view. I'm sure there are special manaqib with specially preserved silsilah or khirqah which will provide detail informations about the origins of naqshbandi and other tariqas in Indonesia. Maaruf Abu Bakar p.s. I know a friend, who I think, held a special ranking in Naqshbandi order in Malaysia. But here, one does not publicised one's involvement in sufi tariqas, as there are quite a number of tariqas being banned in Malaysia. There's a few good reason, the famous is the so called 'tariqa" group that attack a police station in 1970's -- a few people got killed. May Allah guides us to the straight path. From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Fri May 3 01:13:11 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA16036; Thu, 2 May 1996 21:34:20 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id VAA18270; Thu, 2 May 1996 21:16:05 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id VAA18263; Thu, 2 May 1996 21:16:03 -0400 (EDT) From: Jinavamsa@aol.com Received: from emout12.mail.aol.com (emout12.mx.aol.com) by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA05276; Thu, 2 May 1996 21:13:11 -0400 Received: by emout12.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id VAA01941 for tariqas@world.std.com; Thu, 2 May 1996 21:13:11 -0400 Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 21:13:11 -0400 Message-Id: <960502211309_105460238@emout12.mail.aol.com> To: tariqas@world.std.com Cc: Jinavamsa@aol.com Subject: Muhammad discussion Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: peace unto all I have read that Muhammad had the violent misfortune of having his favorite daughter murdered. The man responsible came to Muhammad and asked forgiveness, which was granted. So goes the story as I read it. Where is the original version of this? Can it be found in the Quran itself? What was the name of this daughter, or of the murderer? Are there any commentaries on this? thank you for your help. in peace, Jinavamsa From aorsellidickson@stingray.ac.cowan.edu.au Fri May 3 17:10:16 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA28159; Thu, 2 May 1996 22:00:11 -0400 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id WAA26048; Thu, 2 May 1996 22:00:11 -0400 (EDT) From: aorsellidickson@stingray.ac.cowan.edu.au Received: from eagle.ac.cowan.edu.au by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA26554; Thu, 2 May 1996 21:56:45 -0400 Received: from stingray.ac.cowan.edu.au (stingray.ac.cowan.edu.au [139.230.161.10]) by eagle.ac.cowan.edu.au (8.7.1/8.7.1) with SMTP id JAA13742 for ; Fri, 3 May 1996 09:52:34 +0800 Message-Id: <199605030152.JAA13742@eagle.ac.cowan.edu.au> X-Nvlenv-01Date-Posted: 3-May-1996 9:58:13 -0400; at STINGRAY.ac.cowan X-Nvlenv-Content-Subject: Re: Varia X-Nvlenv-Mts-Message-Id: F2108A31816C2979 X-Nvlenv-Notify-On-Read: allowed X-Nvlenv-Notify-On-Refusal: allowed X-Nvlipm-Non-Standard: SMF = 000Application-name: PMAIL To: tariqas-approval%world.std.com@stingray.ac.cowan.edu.au Subject: Re: Varia Date: 03 May 96 17:10:16 GMT X-Nvlipm-Non-Standard: SMF = 000X-NetWare-UIC: AORSELLIDICKSON Status: RO X-Status: >Date: 03-May-1996 09:04:50 +1000 >To: tariqas@facteur.std.com >Subject: Re: Varia >From: tariqas-approval@world.std.com >Reply-to: tariqas@facteur.std.com > > >Assalamu alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh, Farid, dear brother > >I noticed that Muhtar Holland, who has translated a number of >Sufi books (such as books by Abdul-Qadir Jilani), got his start >(and his name, "Muhtar") in Subud. Now this is interesting, i notice Muhtar is the person who wrote the introduction to the book IRSHAD, which contains the teachings of Sheihkh Muzeffer Ozak,( the grand Shaikh of my tariqa before the present one, who is my sheikh, Efendi Sefer Dal) in form of discourses for the American devishes. Shaikh Muzeffer loved America and was instrumental in spreading the tariqa there. Mustafa Abdul, or Paul Bergner, who writes such beautiful poetry( often published by Sufi review) is just one example of the beautiful dervishes of USA. Maybe i will be able to contact Muhtar through him. Thank you for the lead, i will keep you informed of anything i may find out. Do you know how to go about getting the address of Martin Bryant's mother? I would like to write to her, she must need confort and help very very much. I have not followed the news at all, not on the TV neither the press, so i am uncertain whether he has a mother, or even about the spelling of the name, could you follow this up for me? Hopefully Australia will recover from this dark episode something positive, like better legislation for arm bans...and more tolerance and understanding for the condition of the mentally ill. > > >Wassalam, > Rabia > From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Fri May 3 17:55:47 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA26587; Thu, 2 May 1996 22:57:01 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id WAA03783; Thu, 2 May 1996 22:44:00 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id WAA03752; Thu, 2 May 1996 22:43:57 -0400 (EDT) From: aorsellidickson@stingray.ac.cowan.edu.au Received: from eagle.ac.cowan.edu.au by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA20469; Thu, 2 May 1996 22:40:53 -0400 Received: from stingray.ac.cowan.edu.au (stingray.ac.cowan.edu.au [139.230.161.10]) by eagle.ac.cowan.edu.au (8.7.1/8.7.1) with SMTP id KAA04484 for ; Fri, 3 May 1996 10:37:55 +0800 Message-Id: <199605030237.KAA04484@eagle.ac.cowan.edu.au> X-Nvlenv-01Date-Posted: 3-May-1996 10:43:47 -0400; at STINGRAY.ac.cowan X-Nvlenv-Content-Subject: reply to Maroof X-Nvlenv-Mts-Message-Id: 051B8A31816C2979 X-Nvlenv-Notify-On-Read: allowed X-Nvlenv-Notify-On-Refusal: allowed X-Nvlipm-Non-Standard: SMF = 000Application-name: PMAIL To: tariqas%world.std.com@stingray.ac.cowan.edu.au Subject: reply to Maroof Date: 03 May 96 17:55:47 GMT X-Nvlipm-Non-Standard: SMF = 000X-NetWare-UIC: AORSELLIDICKSON Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: Dear Maroof abu Bakr, salaams and thanks for the very informative notes about the spread of Tasawuf in Indonesia. Paul will be delighted. Is the book you mention in Malay,or Indonesian? or is is available in an English translation? Would it be possible to let me have your private E mail address in case Paul or i decide to pursue this matter further with you? Incidentally, I have a good friend, Dr Paul Stange , who specialises in Javanese mystical movements(especially Sumara), he is American but works for one of the universities in Perth, and he will return from Sumatra next year. If this contact is of any interest to you, let me know . Warmest regards, thanks from the heart and salaams, Rabia From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Fri May 3 18:01:27 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA29305; Thu, 2 May 1996 23:02:51 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id WAA04746; Thu, 2 May 1996 22:49:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id WAA04739; Thu, 2 May 1996 22:49:09 -0400 (EDT) From: aorsellidickson@stingray.ac.cowan.edu.au Received: from eagle.ac.cowan.edu.au by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA22652; Thu, 2 May 1996 22:46:33 -0400 Received: from stingray.ac.cowan.edu.au (stingray.ac.cowan.edu.au [139.230.161.10]) by eagle.ac.cowan.edu.au (8.7.1/8.7.1) with SMTP id KAA11204 for ; Fri, 3 May 1996 10:43:42 +0800 Message-Id: <199605030243.KAA11204@eagle.ac.cowan.edu.au> X-Nvlenv-01Date-Posted: 3-May-1996 10:49:19 -0400; at STINGRAY.ac.cowan X-Nvlenv-Content-Subject: Asin Jalis X-Nvlenv-Mts-Message-Id: 8C1C8A31816C2979 X-Nvlenv-Notify-On-Refusal: allowed X-Nvlipm-Non-Standard: SMF = 000Application-name: PMAIL To: tariqas%world.std.com@stingray.ac.cowan.edu.au Subject: Asin Jalis Date: 03 May 96 18:01:27 GMT X-Nvlipm-Non-Standard: SMF = 000X-NetWare-UIC: AORSELLIDICKSON Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: I have received a message from but cannot reply, my maessages keep been rejectd. Assuming that Asin is on the tariqas list, I try this venue to send my rejected message. > Asim, since I had difficulty in doing it in any other way, i will adjust manually my messages to fit within 80 characters.. Thanks for letting me know, apparently some people in USA had the same problem with my mail. Where are you writing from? Warmest regards and my deep apologies for the incovenience I have caused to you with my thoughtlessness. Rabia PS as soon as I sent this message, it was rejected( I had used reply function) so I cut and paste your address. Which system do you use? I am on Stingray server,(our university) Pegasus mail,(developed in New Zealand) with Mac computer From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Fri May 3 03:26:23 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA14736; Thu, 2 May 1996 23:37:47 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id XAA11575; Thu, 2 May 1996 23:26:28 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from mhub1.tc.umn.edu by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id XAA11555; Thu, 2 May 1996 23:26:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from maroon.tc.umn.edu by mhub1.tc.umn.edu; Thu, 2 May 96 22:26:24 -0500 Received: by maroon.tc.umn.edu; Thu, 2 May 96 22:26:24 -0500 Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 22:26:23 -0500 (CDT) From: Erik S Ohlander To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Cc: tariqas@world.std.com, Jinavamsa@aol.com Subject: Re: Muhammad discussion In-Reply-To: <960502211309_105460238@emout12.mail.aol.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: As-Salamu 'Alaykum- The Prophet (PBUH) had six childern by Khadijah. The two sons, al-Qasim and Abdullah died in infancy, but his four daughters Zaynab, Ruqayyah, Umm Kulthum and Fatimah. Zaynab died shortly after the Prophet's 'umra, Ruqayyah died somewhat earlier in Medina after the Hijrah, Umm Kulthum died during the expedition to Tabuk, and Fatimah died after the Prophet himself. I have never heard, nor could find, any evidence of any of his daughters being murdered; also - it is traditionallly known that Fatimah was his 'favorite' daughter. Erik. From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Fri May 3 03:26:23 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA17838; Thu, 2 May 1996 23:45:14 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id XAA12042; Thu, 2 May 1996 23:29:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id XAA12028; Thu, 2 May 1996 23:29:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mhub1.tc.umn.edu by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA10047; Thu, 2 May 1996 23:26:27 -0400 Received: from maroon.tc.umn.edu by mhub1.tc.umn.edu; Thu, 2 May 96 22:26:24 -0500 Received: by maroon.tc.umn.edu; Thu, 2 May 96 22:26:24 -0500 Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 22:26:23 -0500 (CDT) From: Erik S Ohlander To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Cc: tariqas@world.std.com, Jinavamsa@aol.com Subject: Re: Muhammad discussion In-Reply-To: <960502211309_105460238@emout12.mail.aol.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: As-Salamu 'Alaykum- The Prophet (PBUH) had six childern by Khadijah. The two sons, al-Qasim and Abdullah died in infancy, but his four daughters Zaynab, Ruqayyah, Umm Kulthum and Fatimah. Zaynab died shortly after the Prophet's 'umra, Ruqayyah died somewhat earlier in Medina after the Hijrah, Umm Kulthum died during the expedition to Tabuk, and Fatimah died after the Prophet himself. I have never heard, nor could find, any evidence of any of his daughters being murdered; also - it is traditionallly known that Fatimah was his 'favorite' daughter. Erik. From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Fri May 3 03:41:52 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA22885; Thu, 2 May 1996 23:58:07 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id XAA14874; Thu, 2 May 1996 23:43:48 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id XAA14867; Thu, 2 May 1996 23:43:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mhub1.tc.umn.edu by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA16745; Thu, 2 May 1996 23:42:00 -0400 Received: from maroon.tc.umn.edu by mhub1.tc.umn.edu; Thu, 2 May 96 22:41:53 -0500 Received: by maroon.tc.umn.edu; Thu, 2 May 96 22:41:53 -0500 Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 22:41:52 -0500 (CDT) From: Erik S Ohlander To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: More Muhammad II Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: Addendum II- The only child born to Muhammad outside of Khadijah was, as I mentioned before, was one Ibrahim (who died at 18 months). His mother Mary the Copt (as she is known) was sent to the Prophet by Muqauqis, and was his next-to-last wife during this so-called 'fourth Medinan period'. Erik. From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Fri May 3 03:37:02 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA23292; Thu, 2 May 1996 23:59:25 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id XAA14008; Thu, 2 May 1996 23:39:07 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id XAA13978; Thu, 2 May 1996 23:39:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mhub1.tc.umn.edu by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA14449; Thu, 2 May 1996 23:37:03 -0400 Received: from maroon.tc.umn.edu by mhub1.tc.umn.edu; Thu, 2 May 96 22:37:03 -0500 Received: by maroon.tc.umn.edu; Thu, 2 May 96 22:37:03 -0500 Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 22:37:02 -0500 (CDT) From: Erik S Ohlander To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: More Muhammad Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: Addendum to last message: Zaynab bint Muhammad married Abu'l-'As, Ruqayyah married 'Uthman, and Umm Kulthum as married 'Uthman (after her elder sister died). Fatimah married 'Ali, and she died 18 months after the Prophet. After the childern bore to him by Khadijah, Muhammad only had one other child, Ibrahim, from a wife he married in Medina, but he died at 18 months. Where did you read that one of the daughters of the Prophet (PBUH) was murdered? I am interested in obtaining this reference. Thanks, Erik. From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Fri May 3 04:41:47 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA17641; Fri, 3 May 1996 00:54:24 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id AAA24133; Fri, 3 May 1996 00:44:01 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id AAA24125; Fri, 3 May 1996 00:43:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA14432; Fri, 3 May 1996 00:41:47 -0400 Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 00:41:47 -0400 (EDT) From: Steve H Rose Subject: Shaikh Serif Al-Rifa'i Zikrs in NYC (fwd) To: tariqas@world.std.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 18:29:33 -0400 (EDT) From:tariqas-approval@world.std.com To: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Subject: BOUNCE tariqas@world.std.com: Non-member submission from [ZIAulHUQ@aol.com] >From habib@world.std.com Wed May 1 18:29:31 1996 Return-Path: Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id SAA29794; Wed, 1 May 1996 18:29:31 -0400 (EDT) From: ZIAulHUQ@aol.com Received: from emout14.mail.aol.com (emout14.mx.aol.com) by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA23457; Wed, 1 May 1996 18:27:52 -0400 Received: by emout14.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id SAA02918 for tariqas@world.std.com; Wed, 1 May 1996 18:27:52 -0400 Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 18:27:52 -0400 Message-Id: <960501182750_525994892@emout14.mail.aol.com> To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: SHAIKH SERIF AL-RIFA'I ZIKRS IN NYC HU, Shaikh Serif of the Rifai-Marufi Order of Istanbul will be in NYC and will conduct Zikrs at 7:30 PM on May 5th, May 19th and May 26th to which all are welcome at " Fazil's Dance Studio " on the 3rd. floor at 743 8th Avenue ( between 46th and 47th streets). Now residing in North Carolina Shaikh Serif is the head of the Rifai-Marufi Order of America, and can be reached at: M. SERIF CATALKAYA RIFAI MARUFI ORDER OF AMERICA P.O. Box 296 CARRBORO, NC 27510 919-933-0772 For more information on the Zikrs in NYC call 212-265-4345 or the studio at 212-541-4455, or Email at this address. Also, if you wish, join Serif Baba and dervishes at the mehzar of Hz. Baba Bawa in Philadelphia on May 12th after noon prayers. HU From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Fri May 3 05:28:07 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA28375; Fri, 3 May 1996 01:41:02 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id BAA04043; Fri, 3 May 1996 01:30:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id BAA04034; Fri, 3 May 1996 01:30:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from homer18.u.washington.edu by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA25294; Fri, 3 May 1996 01:28:11 -0400 Received: from localhost by homer18.u.washington.edu (5.65+UW96.04/UW-NDC Revision: 2.33 ) id AA62136; Thu, 2 May 96 22:28:07 -0700 Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 22:28:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Lilyan Ila To: tariqasnet Subject: zilzal ( Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: bismillah-e-rahman-e-rahim When the earth is shaken in her final quaking, and earth throws forth her burdens, and everyman says: "What is (happening) to her?" on that day she will report her news which your Lord has inspired her with. On that day men will appear in droves to be shown their actions; and whoever has done an atoms' weight of good will see it; while whoever has done an atom's weight of evil will see it. Sura 99, Zilzal From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Fri May 3 05:47:33 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA02302; Fri, 3 May 1996 01:59:15 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id BAA05986; Fri, 3 May 1996 01:48:33 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id BAA05978; Fri, 3 May 1996 01:48:32 -0400 (EDT) From: informe@best.com Received: from blob.best.net by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA29614; Fri, 3 May 1996 01:47:40 -0400 Received: from [204.156.129.34] (informe.vip.best.com [204.156.129.34]) by blob.best.net (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id WAA26218 for ; Thu, 2 May 1996 22:47:33 -0700 Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 22:47:33 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: Re: Varia Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: As-salaamu alaikum, >I noticed that Muhtar Holland, who has translated a number of >Sufi books (such as books by Abdul-Qadir Jilani), got his start >(and his name, "Muhtar") in Subud. Brother Muhtar has translated a number of my favorite texts, including the set of books by Sh. Abdul Qadir Jilani, "On the Duties of Brotherhood" by Sh. Ghazzali, "Irshad" by Sh. Muzzafer Ozak, and "Masters of Wisdom of Central Asia", by Sh. Hasan Shushud. Salaams, Hamza From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Fri May 3 05:08:37 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA22018; Fri, 3 May 1996 02:57:45 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id BAA26838; Fri, 3 May 1996 01:08:44 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from relay3.jaring.my by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id BAA26823; Fri, 3 May 1996 01:08:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from maarof@localhost) by relay3.jaring.my (8.7.1/8.7.1) id NAA16480; Fri, 3 May 1996 13:08:37 +0800 (MYT) Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 13:08:37 +0800 (MYT) Message-Id: <199605030508.NAA16480@relay3.jaring.my> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: maarof@pc.jaring.my Subject: Happy to help :) To: tariqas@facteur.std.com In-Reply-To: <199605030237.KAA04484@eagle.ac.cowan.edu.au> X-Mailer: SPRY Mail Version: 04.00.06.17 Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: Dear Rabia & friends in Tariqas My heart is always open to help you in any possible means. About the book _Pengantar Ilmu Tarekat dan Tasauf_ by Prof Dr Haji Aboebakar Atjeh, it is written in Bahasa Indonesia which is actually the same Malay language that is used in Malaysia. It was published by Pustaka Aman Press of Kota Bharu, Kelantan, Malaysia 1980 and the 2nd edn in 1985. The written style of Bahasa Indonesia, especially authors from Sumatera is very similar to the Malay language in Malaysia. In his inroduction in the book, Haji Aboebakar said he wrote the book for the Malaysian and Indonesian public. I am not sure any of his books has been translated into English. His books are usually written for the general public, and there's always a good demand for books on tasawuf (sufism) in Malaysia. I am sure there are English translations of major works on early Islamic and sufi liteatures from this region, especially thru the effort of Syed Naquib al-Attas. My e-mail is maarof@pc.jaring.my Salam Maaruf From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Fri May 3 07:16:43 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA27036; Fri, 3 May 1996 03:30:57 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id DAA13635; Fri, 3 May 1996 03:16:44 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from emout15.mail.aol.com by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id DAA13631; Fri, 3 May 1996 03:16:43 -0400 (EDT) From: Jinavamsa@aol.com Received: by emout15.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id DAA26619 for tariqas@europe.std.com; Fri, 3 May 1996 03:16:43 -0400 Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 03:16:43 -0400 Message-Id: <960503031642_389341363@emout15.mail.aol.com> To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Cc: Jinavamsa@aol.com Subject: Re: More Muhammad Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: hello Eric and all, let me mention that I received about 3-4 copies of your earlier post. I think yoiu sent it to tariqas two different ways. anyway, .... Eric -- thank you for this and for the other (first part to which this of yours is an addendum) posting about Muhammad and his favorite daughter. From what you said, I too wonder where this description that I paraphrased comes from originally. You ask for the source, and I can give it to you rather precisely. The passage (I will quote it for you below, for your interest) is from the Indian (Motilal Banarsidass Publishers, Delhi, 1990) edition of vol. VIII of Hazrat Inayat Khan's writings; this vol. VIII being entitled Sufi Teachings. Just let me remark that I have found out that the edition available in the USA is itself an expanded version of this vol. 8, comprising two volumes, vol. 8 and vol. 14, I think. In any case, this second vol. has the title The Smiling Forehead. So, back to the Indian edition. The passage can be found at the end of the chapter called The Heart (in vol. VIII, pp. 261-265) This chapter is not at all in vol. 8 of the US version, which I have here. I expect to receive the vol. 14 in question in the next week or so and will be able to see if it appears there at that time. At pp. 254-265 we can read (here's the quotation): "Think of the Prophet Mohammad whose most beloved daughter was killed by an Arab before his eyes; and when the Arab said, 'I did not do it on purpose. Will you forgive me?' the Prophet forgave him instantly." This passage is preceded by a comment about Jesus, and is followed by a short one about the Buddha: "Think also of the compassion of Buddha towards even the smallest insect." What do you make of that? I mean the part about Mohammad. thank you for all of your information, Eric. in peace, Jinavamsa In a message dated 96-05-02 23:40:05 EDT, you write: >Subj: More Muhammad >Date: 96-05-02 23:40:05 EDT >From: ohla0003@maroon.tc.umn.edu (Erik S Ohlander) >Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com >Reply-to: tariqas@europe.std.com >To: tariqas@world.std.com > > >Addendum to last message: > >Zaynab bint Muhammad married Abu'l-'As, Ruqayyah married 'Uthman, and Umm >Kulthum as married 'Uthman (after her elder sister died). Fatimah married >'Ali, and she died 18 months after the Prophet. After the childern bore >to him by Khadijah, Muhammad only had one other child, Ibrahim, from a >wife he married in Medina, but he died at 18 months. > >Where did you read that one of the daughters of the Prophet (PBUH) was >murdered? I am interested in obtaining this reference. > >Thanks, > >Erik. > > > From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Fri May 3 07:58:57 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA02778; Fri, 3 May 1996 04:15:47 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id DAA16696; Fri, 3 May 1996 03:57:59 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from merak.idola.net.id by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id DAA16688; Fri, 3 May 1996 03:57:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ppp32.IdOLA.net.id by merak.idola.net.id; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/22Mar96-0518PM) id AA04973; Fri, 3 May 1996 14:58:57 +0700 Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 14:58:57 +0700 Message-Id: <9605030758.AA04973@merak.idola.net.id> X-Sender: barzakh@elang.idola.net.id X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: tariqas@facteur.std.com From: BARZAKH FOUNDATION Subject: Cure for DEPRESSION Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: >i've decided that regardless of what my mood is, i don't want to live >like an >invalid. somewhere in my brain i have great plans for my life, and i'm going >to "JUST DO IT" regardless of whether DSMIV says i'm looney or my boyfriend >(who is himself BP) tells me i'm acting like a psychotic six year old so get >on with it. > >this is my life, dammit, i'm not going to let some disease steal it. i don't >need doctors, and i don't need their unanswers and their unpills that >make me >worse, their anti psychotics their anti whatevers. its better to burn out >than to fade away, so mr. neil tells me, and i'd rathe rbe a trillion dollars >in debt and lovin' every second i spent than to be lying in my bed with my >knife collection waiting for some damned doctor to put a label on me and >experiment on my brain with drugs that don't do anything but mess me up more. > > Bismillahirrahmanirrahim. Assalamu'alaikum. Maybe my Sufi Master can help Jim to cure his depression. My Sufi Master's name is Muhammad Zuhri, and he already cured many patients with cancer, leukemia, mental disorder, etc. using Sufi Healing method, for the last 20 years. It's an ancient Sufi method using prayers to cure people. Some people with AIDS is now under his treatment. His profile in the Internet can be found at : http://www.idola.net.id/inyp/life/barzakh/muhzuh-e.htm Jim needs only to give me his full name, his mother's name, and his snail-mail (post) address, and I will pass it to my Master. I suggest that Jim should actively find a murshid for himself. I think there are many Sufi Orders in USA. A True Guide is needed to follow the Sufi Path, if not satan will be the leader. Insha Allah, God will cure Jim. Wassalamu'alaikum. Michael Roland Secretary of Barzakh Foundation BARZAKH FOUNDATION Wijaya Grand Centre C-3 Jalan Wijaya 2 Kebayoran Baru Jakarta INDONESIA 12160 Phone (62-21) 7234676, 7205622 Fax (62-21) 7205622 E-mail : barzakh@idola.net.id http://www.idola.net.id/inyp/life/barzakh From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Fri May 3 08:20:29 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA05302; Fri, 3 May 1996 04:44:36 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id EAA18291; Fri, 3 May 1996 04:23:44 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from bbs.cruzio.com by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id EAA18283; Fri, 3 May 1996 04:23:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pine196.cruzio.com by bbs.cruzio.com id aa24756; 3 May 96 1:20 PDT X-Sender: dances@mail.cruzio.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 01:20:29 -0700 To: tariqas@facteur.std.com From: anyone Subject: Re: Asin Jalis Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: >I have received a message from but cannot >reply, my maessages keep been rejectd. >Assuming that Asin is on the tariqas list, I try this venue >to send my rejected message. >> >Asim, since I had difficulty in doing it in any other way, >i will adjust manually my messages to fit within 80 characters.. >Thanks for letting me know, apparently some people in USA >had the same problem with my mail. Where are you writing from? >Warmest regards and my deep apologies for the incovenience I have >caused to you with my thoughtlessness. >Rabia > >PS as soon as I sent this message, it was rejected( I had used >reply function) so I cut and paste your address. Which >system do you use? I am on Stingray server,(our university) > Pegasus mail,(developed in New Zealand) with >Mac computer To the poster! try using Eudora a excellant mail program for the mac email me privately perhaps I can be of assistance!! james hallam >.- From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Fri May 3 16:11:12 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA28349; Fri, 3 May 1996 12:35:41 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id MAA17546; Fri, 3 May 1996 12:09:33 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from WIZARD.COLORADO.EDU by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id MAA17521; Fri, 3 May 1996 12:09:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from granger.cusys.edu by WIZARD.COLORADO.EDU (PMDF #12158) id <01I49K9XNEQO8WY0DB@WIZARD.COLORADO.EDU>; Fri, 3 May 1996 10:09 GMT Date: Fri, 03 May 1996 10:11:12 -0600 From: Mike Granger Subject: RE: Varia To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Message-Id: <2.2.16.19960503161112.2f2fa2e0@wizard.colorado.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: granger_m@wizard.colorado.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: At 09:04 AM 5/3/96 +1000, you wrote: > >Assalamu alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh, Rabia! > >On Thu, 2 May 1996 aorsellidickson@stingray.ac.cowan.edu.au wrote: > >About the massacre in Tasmania, the person charged with the crime >is believed to be mentally ill (I don't remember exactly in >which way, however).... many people are shocked that he could >legally get the semi-automatic weapons he used. > This is another glaring example of why the general citizenry SHOULD have the right to be armed. The wackos are ALWAYS going to be able to obtain guns, so why the hell shouldn't we at least let the general citizenry be armed. If one of the men who was in the area had had his own gun, he might have been able to stop this animal at some point. The arguement that everyone having guns will lead to chaos is absurd. It is more than just a catchy phrase: An armed society is a polite society. Wasn't it a sunnah of the Holy Prophet that a man should always be carrying a knife? I don't think that was just meant for wittling sticks. The real insanity is allowing just the police force, exclusively, to deal with dangerous situations where instant action may be required. Mistakes may be made, but God knows the cops make more than their share of mistakes too. From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Fri May 3 16:11:14 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA10548; Fri, 3 May 1996 12:54:54 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id MAA17529; Fri, 3 May 1996 12:09:23 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from WIZARD.COLORADO.EDU by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id MAA17514; Fri, 3 May 1996 12:09:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from granger.cusys.edu by WIZARD.COLORADO.EDU (PMDF #12158) id <01I49K9YUJLG8WY0DB@WIZARD.COLORADO.EDU>; Fri, 3 May 1996 10:09 GMT Date: Fri, 03 May 1996 10:11:14 -0600 From: Mike Granger Subject: Re: Muhammad discussion To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Message-Id: <2.2.16.19960503161114.21c7640e@wizard.colorado.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: granger_m@wizard.colorado.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: What? Where did you read this? I would have thought that Fatima would have been his favorite daughter. Was she murdered? At 09:13 PM 5/2/96 -0400, you wrote: >peace unto all > >I have read that Muhammad had the violent misfortune of having his favorite >daughter murdered. The man responsible came to Muhammad and asked >forgiveness, which was granted. >So goes the story as I read it. >Where is the original version of this? Can it be found in the Quran itself? >What was the name of this daughter, or of the murderer? Are there any >commentaries on this? >thank you for your help. >in peace, >Jinavamsa > > From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Fri May 3 16:36:18 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA21466; Fri, 3 May 1996 13:12:07 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id MAA21892; Fri, 3 May 1996 12:34:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from WIZARD.COLORADO.EDU by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id MAA21875; Fri, 3 May 1996 12:34:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from granger.cusys.edu by WIZARD.COLORADO.EDU (PMDF #12158) id <01I49L530JPC8WY1IK@WIZARD.COLORADO.EDU>; Fri, 3 May 1996 10:34 GMT Date: Fri, 03 May 1996 10:36:18 -0600 From: Mike Granger Subject: Masters of Wisdom To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Message-Id: <2.2.16.19960503163618.3e8777ee@wizard.colorado.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: granger_m@wizard.colorado.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: There have been some postings lately regarding the book "Masters of Wisdom of Central Asia" by Hasan Shushud. I think that some of you may be under the impression that it is a complete rendering of the line of the Khwajagan, but I have been told by someone who has intensely studied the silsila of the Naqshbandia that this is not the case. This friend of mine knew Shushud, and even corresponded with him for a couple of year back in the late 70s. After reading the Masters book, it was apparent to my friend that some important Naqshbandi Shaykhs of the time period covered by the book were not included. My friend asked Shushud about this. The answer somehow implied, as I vaguely recall, that Shushud wasn't able to do more than he did with the Masters book. I will talk to my friend today or over the weekend and have him refresh me on what that was all about. Abdassalam Granger From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Fri May 3 09:57:05 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA27608; Fri, 3 May 1996 14:48:34 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id NAA05691; Fri, 3 May 1996 13:59:00 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id NAA05687; Fri, 3 May 1996 13:58:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CYPHER.TURBONET.COM by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA22559; Fri, 3 May 1996 13:57:17 -0400 Received: from [204.188.48.212] by cypher.turbonet.com (NTMail 3.01.03) id ma056276; Fri, 3 May 1996 10:57:05 +0100 X-Sender: Well333@turbonet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: tariqas@world.std.com From: Well333@turbonet.com (Jacquie Weller) Subject: Doggy Thought Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 10:57:05 +0100 Message-Id: <17570530400444@turbonet.com> X-Info: Visit http:// www.TurboNet.com/ Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: Yesterday I read this: A dog is lovable because it wags its tail and not his tongue. The little mind, that I have seems to be a vehicle of stress sometimes; the Big mind never is and gives Peace, Joy, Love and Serenity. Why do I not pay attention to it, so often. Well that's all folks, Love Lalla From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Fri May 3 18:11:15 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA05392; Fri, 3 May 1996 15:00:37 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id OAA07788; Fri, 3 May 1996 14:11:24 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from blob.best.net by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id OAA07775; Fri, 3 May 1996 14:11:22 -0400 (EDT) From: informe@best.com Received: from [204.156.129.34] (informe.vip.best.com [204.156.129.34]) by blob.best.net (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id LAA07544 for ; Fri, 3 May 1996 11:11:15 -0700 Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 11:11:15 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Subject: Re: Masters of Wisdom Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: > There have been some postings lately regarding the book "Masters >of Wisdom of Central Asia" by Hasan Shushud. I think that some of you may >be under the impression that it is a complete rendering of the line of the >Khwajagan, but I have been told by someone who has intensely studied the >silsila of the Naqshbandia that this is not the case. This friend of mine >knew Shushud, and even corresponded with him for a couple of year back in >the late 70s. After reading the Masters book, it was apparent to my >friend that some important Naqshbandi Shaykhs of the time period covered >by the book were not included. My friend asked Shushud about this. The >answer somehow implied, as I vaguely recall, that Shushud wasn't able to >do more than he did with the Masters book. > I will talk to my friend today or over the weekend and have him >refresh me on what that was all about. > >Abdassalam Granger As-saaaamu alaikum, Brother Abdassalam and all, As Allah permits and informs me, I have mentioned this book several times because of all the texts I have read it comes closest to my own experience and prediliction. I have written technical (electronic, mechanical, computer) documentation for many years, and Sh. Shushud takes a technical approach to the subject I have not seen elsewhere, with the exception of _Journey to the Lord of Power_, which by modern standards is an excellent and methodical technical manual, if incredibly condensed. The means the shaykhs take in teaching apparently vary in level and depth, depending on their audience and other cirumstances. One example is Sh. Muzzafer Ozak's _Irshad_, which is a long and comprehensive examination of many of the core concepts of sufism, taken a bit at a time. Sh. Hakim Chisti's _The Book of Sufi Healing_ communicates in a different way to a different audience. And our Sh. Nazim's _Mercy Oceans_ books are records of his talks on a wide variety of subjects, with specific techniques, prophecy, tales, and his own observations. To me, the preface, glossary, and afterword in _Masters of Wisdom_ are like a race car stripped of all padding and amenities, focussed only on speed. Astagfirullah, the shaykhs are the best judges of what we need and the order to pursue knowlege and experience, so perhaps I do wrong to concentrate on what I respond strongly to. To illustrate what involves me, I will post a short letter I wrote recently. May Allah forgive me for the contamination of my ego in this writing, and for taking up these topics out of my own interest rather than at the direction of the shaykh. ---------- As Allah permits and informs me, I have not posted anything (to the Tariqas group) about my interest in the intersection of consciousness and modern physics and spirituality, but I thought you might be interested. I recently read Roger Penrose's new book about the nature of consciousness and how it arises, and I am again surprised and excited by how western science is running into the 'end' of the universe, not on a macroscopic level, but at the subnuclear level where the most fundamental properties of the macrouniverse seem to dissolve and merge. If you're not familiar with Penrose, let me try to summarize his book in a sentence or two. He asked the obvious question - if thought and consciousness and mechanical action/reaction is supposed to arise in nerves and nervous systems, what is going on in single-celled organisms that have no nervous system? They recognize food, avoid danger, and reproduce in predictable ways. Penrose followed a trail that led to the microtubules within the mitochondia of cells, where he found thousands of sets of protein dimers that have two states, like primitive boolean state machines. He hypothesizes that quantum coherence across a set of these dimers - on the order of 10,000 or so - constitutes the fundamental "signal" that underlies all neural action. What he cannot explain is how coherence arises and is sustained at biological temperatures, where thermal noise should swamp this most faint of signalling. I suspect that the mechanism of organic superconduction could be partly or wholly reponsible for maintaining such coherence. I have personally experienced the phenomenon that the vedic theorists describe as the "kundalini" force, and it subjectively feels like the cerebrospinal fluid starts to superconduct. The process begins at the base of the spine, where the "kundalini gland" is supposed to lie, and rapidly proceeds upward as the compound diffuses. But within the cells of organisms, perhaps creation of such a superconducting chemical acts as a stabilizer or amplifying force. Perhaps the meditative/concentrative techniques evolved over the years in many different paths are ways to stimulate production of this substance, and/or to quiet the thermal noise of the "monkey mind" enough to let kindling of quantum-coherent state information arise from the Dirac sea into these primary receptors. As I'm sure you have noticed, the mechanisms governing virtual particle production are not subject to the same space/time/causality considerations that *already created* matter is subject to. Allah forbid that we associate Him with anything not appropriate to Him, but if He has left His signs "on the horizons", what better place to seek Him out that at that very twilight borderland of physical reality. Experiment after experiment in that land verifies His attributes - in fact, perhaps we should keep a list of them and see if they can get all 99 - such as the recent Bose-Einstein condensate experiment, which projected unity of material identity across 2000 "separate" atoms as they approached close to absolute zero. Again, from my own experience, the reception of information from outside the accustomed sources takes place, at first, at levels that fluctuate around one's own threshold of awareness, and are only understandable as "spliced-into-normal-consciousness" by observing that the action-reaction thought flow is interrupted by a non-mechanistic thought/perception. It took me many years to catch the nonsequential element in this. I conjecture - and may Allah forgive me if I mispeak - that as individuals mature they separate more and more from the deterministic stream and become more and more aware of a non-process-oriented nondeterministic reality, corresponding to Ibn al' Arabi's "Realms", which he describes as "the substrata in which experience actually occurs", or to the ideational platonic realm described by Sh. Hasan Shushud as _fana' al-af 'al_ , or the "annihilation of actions", the first stage of separation from material creation, i.e., time-bound action/reaction mechanism. I conjecture that experience occurs there because what we perceive as "identity" is the ideational aspect of reality transferred from that realm to ours in simultaneous coterminous quantum flux throughout spacetime. Without that transference, we would have no existence or only have beingness as a formless "quark fog", as one theorist put it. I have experienced states of awareness, as an adult (I imagine that young children do it spontaneously until they learn to observe compulsively), where I was aware of process without being aware of myself. The quality of my awareness was such that it seemed to be floating frictionless on experience without any self-referential interaction. If there was a way to sustain that level of awareness, not of process but of the "objects of knowledge", what might we learn? Astagfirullah, if I have spoken beyond my competence. Salaams, Hamza From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Fri May 3 20:59:49 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA11883; Fri, 3 May 1996 17:31:31 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id QAA03613; Fri, 3 May 1996 16:59:54 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from relay3.jaring.my by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id QAA03604; Fri, 3 May 1996 16:59:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from maarof@localhost) by relay3.jaring.my (8.7.1/8.7.1) id EAA26581; Sat, 4 May 1996 04:59:49 +0800 (MYT) Date: Sat, 4 May 1996 04:59:49 +0800 (MYT) Message-Id: <199605032059.EAA26581@relay3.jaring.my> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: maarof@pc.jaring.my Subject: Re: zilzal ( To: tariqas@facteur.std.com In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: SPRY Mail Version: 04.00.06.17 Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: On Thu, 2 May 1996, Lilyan Ila wrote: > > > >bismillah-e-rahman-e-rahim > >When the earth is shaken >in her final quaking, >and earth throws forth her burdens, >and everyman says: "What is (happening) to her?" > >on that day she will report her news >which your Lord has inspired her with. >On that day men will appear in droves >to be shown their actions; > >and whoever has done an atoms' weight >of good will see it; while whoever >has done an atom's weight of evil > will see it. > >Sura 99, Zilzal > After reading the posting, on my way to work, I stopped to buy a few books on English translations of the Quran. Tonite, as I reread the posting, I reached the book, and yes the same verses strike my heart. _The Qur'an, Translations and Commentary_ by T.B Irving (Al-Hajj Ta'lim Ali) Thank you Lilyan Ila Maaruf p.s I still don't know what happened to Maryam Jameelah. From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Fri May 3 22:13:29 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA04756; Fri, 3 May 1996 19:21:48 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id SAA14718; Fri, 3 May 1996 18:13:59 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from fellspt.charm.net by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id SAA14705; Fri, 3 May 1996 18:13:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tony.charm.net by fellspt.charm.net ; 3 MAY 96 18:10:05 EDT From: tony@charm.net (Anthony Teelucksingh) To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Subject: Re: Varia Date: Fri, 03 May 1996 18:13:29 -0400 Organization: Rodgers Forge in Towson, Maryland Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <318a849d.38710132@smtp.charm.net> References: <2.2.16.19960503161112.2f2fa2e0@wizard.colorado.edu> In-Reply-To: <2.2.16.19960503161112.2f2fa2e0@wizard.colorado.edu> X-Mailer: Forte Agent .99e/32.227 Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: On Fri, 03 May 1996 10:11:12 -0600, you sent me this email: > This is another glaring example of why the general citizenry SHOULD have the right to be armed. The wackos are ALWAYS going to be able to obtain guns, so why the hell shouldn't we at least let the general citizenry be armed. If one of the men who was in the area had had his own gun, he might have been able to stop this animal at some point. The arguement that everyone having guns will lead to chaos is absurd. It is more than just a catchy phrase: An armed society is a polite society. Wasn't it a sunnah of the Holy Prophet that a man should always be carrying a knife? I don't think that was just meant for wittling sticks. The real insanity is allowing just the police force, exclusively, to deal with dangerous situations where instant action may be required. >Mistakes may be made, but God knows the cops make more than their share of mistakes too. > Hmm, don't know quite what to make of this one. Can't say I'm looking forward to strapping on my six-shooter (yes, an uzi would be more effective) and moseying out to get some grub, pardner. -- Tony Anthony Teelucksingh "Some circumstantial evidence is very strong, as when you find a trout in the milk." -- Henry David Thoreau From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Fri May 3 23:56:26 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA01686; Fri, 3 May 1996 20:31:53 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id TAA29309; Fri, 3 May 1996 19:54:38 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from WIZARD.COLORADO.EDU by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id TAA29270; Fri, 3 May 1996 19:54:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from granger.cusys.edu by WIZARD.COLORADO.EDU (PMDF #12158) id <01I4A0IRYJ008WY63C@WIZARD.COLORADO.EDU>; Fri, 3 May 1996 17:55 GMT Date: Fri, 03 May 1996 17:56:26 -0600 From: Mike Granger Subject: RE: Varia To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Message-Id: <2.2.16.19960503235626.2c77d224@wizard.colorado.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: granger_m@wizard.colorado.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: At 06:13 PM 5/3/96 -0400, you wrote: >On Fri, 03 May 1996 10:11:12 -0600, you sent me this email: >> This is another glaring example of why the general citizenry SHOULD have the right to be armed. The wackos are ALWAYS going to be able to obtain guns, so why the hell shouldn't we at least let the general citizenry be armed. If one of the men who was in the area had had his own gun, he might have been able to stop this animal at some point. The arguement that everyone having guns will lead to chaos is absurd. It is more than just a catchy phrase: An armed society is a polite society. Wasn't it a sunnah of the Holy Prophet that a man should always be carrying a knife? I don't think that was just meant for wittling sticks. The real insanity is allowing just the police force, exclusively, to deal with dangerous situations where instant action may be required. >>Mistakes may be made, but God knows the cops make more than their share of mistakes too. >> > > Hmm, don't know quite what to make of this one. Can't say >I'm looking forward to strapping on my six-shooter (yes, an uzi >would be more effective) and moseying out to get some grub, >pardner. > >-- > >Tony > >Anthony Teelucksingh > >"Some circumstantial evidence is very strong, as when you > find a trout in the milk." -- Henry David Thoreau > > This is a typical flip reply by people in favor of total gun control. You assume, perhaps, that all people in favor of legalizing handgun possesion have a cowboy mentality? Why don't you talk to some of the brothers who live in an area like, say, Oakland CA, and ask them how smart it would be to go out and NOT have your own handgun. There is time and place, and it might not be appropriate at all times or places to have a gun on hand, but there are plenty of places and times where it is. Certainly having a gun requires training and understanding of it's use, of it's potential for utter destruction of life. Perhaps not all people have the level of intelligence required to be a responsible handgun owner, and I would certainly be in favor of stringent testing and background checking, but dammit, it's our God-given right to protect ourselves, and if that means having my own gun to protect myself or my family if I break down in my car in some God-forsaken part of Chicago, then I'll have that gun, whether Big Brother lets me or not. From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Sat May 4 00:43:14 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA22217; Fri, 3 May 1996 21:16:50 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id UAA06766; Fri, 3 May 1996 20:43:23 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id UAA06752; Fri, 3 May 1996 20:43:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from darice@localhost) by yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA10465; Sat, 4 May 1996 10:43:14 +1000 (EST) Date: Sat, 4 May 1996 10:43:14 +1000 (EST) From: Dien Alfred Rice To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Subject: RE: Varia In-Reply-To: <2.2.16.19960503161112.2f2fa2e0@wizard.colorado.edu> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: Assalamu alaikum, I wrote: > >About the massacre in Tasmania, the person charged with the crime > >is believed to be mentally ill (I don't remember exactly in > >which way, however).... many people are shocked that he could > >legally get the semi-automatic weapons he used. Mike Granger wrote: > This is another glaring example of why the general citizenry > SHOULD have the right to be armed. The wackos are ALWAYS going to be > able to obtain guns, so why the hell shouldn't we at least let the > general citizenry be arm [...] For what it's worth, I disagree. The Australian federal government has now decided to completely ban all fully automatic and semi-automatic weapons, since these weapons are really only good for killing people. (You don't need a fully automatic or semi-automatic weapon to go duck shooting, for instance.) At the moment, semi-automatic weapons are permitted in some states (such as Tasmania), and don't even need to be registered. However, Australia may be a special case, because I think it is difficult to smuggle weapons into Australia, since it is surrounded by sea. It is probably easier to smuggle weapons into countries that have land borders, I expect, so the case may be different in that situation. Peace, Farid ud-Dien Rice From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Sat May 4 01:07:42 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA28191; Fri, 3 May 1996 21:31:24 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id VAA11558; Fri, 3 May 1996 21:17:33 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id VAA11481; Fri, 3 May 1996 21:17:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from darice@localhost) by yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA17790; Sat, 4 May 1996 11:07:43 +1000 (EST) Date: Sat, 4 May 1996 11:07:42 +1000 (EST) From: Dien Alfred Rice To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Subject: RE: Varia In-Reply-To: <2.2.16.19960503235626.2c77d224@wizard.colorado.edu> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: On Fri, 3 May 1996, Mike Granger wrote: > This is a typical flip reply by people in favor of total gun > control. You assume, perhaps, that all people in favor of legalizing > handgun possesion have a cowboy mentality? Why don't you talk to some > of the brothers who live in an area like, say, Oakland CA, and ask them > how smart it would be to go out and NOT have your own handgun. There is > time and place, and it might not be appropriate at all times or places to > have a gun on hand, but there are plenty of places and times where it is. > Certainly having a gun requires training and understanding of it's use, > of it's potential > for utter destruction of life. Perhaps not all people have the level > of intelligence required to be a responsible handgun owner, and I would > certainly be in favor of stringent testing and background checking, but > dammit, it's our God-given right to protect ourselves, and if that means > having my own gun to protect myself or my family if I break down in my car > in some God-forsaken part of Chicago, then I'll have that gun, whether > Big Brother lets me or not. Assalamu alaikum, Br. Abdussalam, you are writing as one who lives in a society where many criminals are armed, because weapons are easily obtainable. However, I don't think that this is the case everywhere.... If weapons were much harder to obtain such that it was hard for a criminal to obtain a weapon, then the criminals would be less likely to be armed, and the general public would feel less need to be armed. It seems to me that, from your argument, the options are either no-one is armed, or everyone is armed. You consider the first option to be impossible, so you advocate the second option. I don't think the first option is impossible everywhere, and I think there are many societies where weapons are hard to obtain, and few people are armed, and few criminal activities involve guns at all. (I think Australia is more this type of society compared to the US -- gun laws are actually stricter here. Tasmania, where the massacre occurred, happens to have the most lax gun laws in Australia, which is seen by many as a significant factor. Unfortunately, though, Australian society does seem to be getting more violent as the years go by, and I personally support even stricter gun laws to curb it.) I don't know if strict gun control is the best option in the US, however; I am not in the best position to judge that. I did spend 6 months in Berkeley (I returned about a year ago). I admit I was shocked at reading of two armed holdups of a Berkeley Bagelry while I was there, and also a shooting by a guy on a bicycle who was trying to get some money from the driver of a car, a few blocks from my apartment. I'm sure there were more, because I didn't read the local papers very frequently. I'm not used to those things happening here in Australia (though the recent massacre I admit does seem to contradict what I say, it is in fact harder to get guns here in Australia than I think it is in the US). Peace, Farid ud-Dien Rice From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Sat May 4 07:50:55 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA20248; Sat, 4 May 1996 04:01:18 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id DAA01938; Sat, 4 May 1996 03:53:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id DAA01934; Sat, 4 May 1996 03:53:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from homer22.u.washington.edu by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA19098; Sat, 4 May 1996 03:51:02 -0400 Received: from localhost by homer22.u.washington.edu (5.65+UW96.04/UW-NDC Revision: 2.33 ) id AA47348; Sat, 4 May 96 00:50:55 -0700 Date: Sat, 4 May 1996 00:50:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Lilyan Ila To: tariqasnet Subject: Re: zilzal In-Reply-To: <199605032059.EAA26581@relay3.jaring.my> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: asalaam-u-aleikum Maaruf and other tariqas netters You're most welcome. It is the translation I read to my children from, as it uses American english. We had an earthquake here last night and I felt profoundly shaken. Although there was no significant damage or injury Alhamdullilah, there was that endless-seeming moment when no one knew what the outcome would be, and it is such a powerful reminder to be present as the earth moves. I had the experience of being in Tehran during the big earthquake several years ago, which resulted in massive destruction and loss of life in northern Iran. I volunteered briefly in a hospital - the severity of people's injuries was such that the Red Crescent volunteer working with me passed out, even though she had nursed soldiers on the battle front during the Iran Iraq war. If you find Maryam Jameelah let me know, I tried to some years back and was never successful. And thanks much for the wonderful historical posts from your part of the world. Do you have any information on Islamic matrilineal societies? I have heard from travelers that these traditions exist in Indonesia. with warm regards Lily From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Sat May 4 07:57:36 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA20829; Sat, 4 May 1996 04:07:04 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id DAA02255; Sat, 4 May 1996 03:57:39 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from homer22.u.washington.edu by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id DAA02251; Sat, 4 May 1996 03:57:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost by homer22.u.washington.edu (5.65+UW96.04/UW-NDC Revision: 2.33 ) id AA17442; Sat, 4 May 96 00:57:36 -0700 Date: Sat, 4 May 1996 00:57:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Lilyan Ila To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Subject: RE: Varia In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: asalaam-u-aleikum The irony here is, I would feel far safer in the presence of an armed person who speaks with the calm reasonableness of Dien... Lily On Sat, 4 May 1996, Dien Alfred Rice wrote: > > Mike Granger wrote: > > > This is another glaring example of why the general citizenry > > SHOULD have the right to be armed. The wackos are ALWAYS going to be > > able to obtain guns, so why the hell shouldn't we at least let the > > general citizenry be arm > > For what it's worth, I disagree. The Australian federal government > > From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Sat May 4 13:09:55 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA06180; Sat, 4 May 1996 09:20:02 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id JAA28653; Sat, 4 May 1996 09:10:24 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id JAA28648; Sat, 4 May 1996 09:10:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from weaver.weaver.guilford.k12.nc.us by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA03964; Sat, 4 May 1996 09:09:52 -0400 Received: by weaver.weaver.guilford.k12.nc.us id JAA03217; Sat, 4 May 1996 09:09:55 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 4 May 1996 09:09:55 -0400 (EDT) From: Bob King X-Sender: bking@weaver To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: guns and God-forsakenness In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: I'd like to add just this bit to the discussion. I don't think there are God-forsaken places in Chicago or elsewhere, but I do think there are human-forsaken people who have to live with a lack of love and in circumstances which make for desperation and self-loathing. I don't think such people are ever helped by easy availability of arms. Neither are people who live in fear that "those people are the problem" helped by easy availability of arms. This kind of thing -- armed violence born of lack of love and plenty of desperation, which then creates a desperate desire to further arm against armed violence -- is known as a vicious circle. My perception is that America is deeply caught up in this circle and needs to find ways out. We begin by talking, so I'm grateful to all for having this discussion! May peace be with you. . . Bob King From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Sun May 5 00:14:46 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA20891; Sat, 4 May 1996 20:31:07 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id UAA07520; Sat, 4 May 1996 20:15:39 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id UAA07488; Sat, 4 May 1996 20:15:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from darice@localhost) by yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA24153; Sun, 5 May 1996 10:14:47 +1000 (EST) Date: Sun, 5 May 1996 10:14:46 +1000 (EST) From: Dien Alfred Rice To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Subject: Re: zilzal In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: Assalamu alaikum, On Sat, 4 May 1996, Lilyan Ila wrote: > And thanks much for the wonderful historical posts from your part of the > world. Do you have any information on Islamic matrilineal societies? I > have heard from travelers that these traditions exist in Indonesia. The Minangkebau people of West Sumatra, in Indonesia, are matrilineal. My mother is Minangkebau -- since they are matrilineal, this makes me Minangkebau too. :) As well as the family name passing through the mother, inheritance also tends to pass from mother to daughter. The Minangkebau people are generally strong Muslims, and are known as such in Indonesia. Although my paternal surname is "Rice" (from my American father), my Minangkebau family name is "Chaniago." (However, the family name in Indonesia is not usually appended to the end of your name as is the case in the West, which is why I don't have it appended to the end of my name.) If you are ever interested in visiting West Sumatra, my parents own a small "hotel" (very simple) on Lake Meninjau in West Sumatra, which is mainly run by my mother's uncle. Let me know if anyone is interested. :) There are a couple of others there, too, but I think my parent's place is the only one with a Western-style toilet. :) I've forgotten the exact cost, but I think it was less than US$5 per night. You can visit the heart of Minangkebau territory! (My mother's family "village" is also on Lake Meninjau, which is why their small "hotel" is there.) Wassalam, Farid ud-Dien Rice From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Sun May 5 00:15:02 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA22171; Sat, 4 May 1996 20:35:02 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id UAA07886; Sat, 4 May 1996 20:19:57 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from brutus by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id UAA07882; Sat, 4 May 1996 20:19:55 -0400 (EDT) From: fdobbins@alltelga.net Received: from disus.alltelga.net (port1.alltelga.net [205.240.158.101]) by brutus (SMI-8.6/8.6.11-1) with SMTP id UAA22636 for ; Sat, 4 May 1996 20:19:52 -0400 Date: Sat, 4 May 96 20:15:02 EDT Subject: Re: tariqas - DEPRESSION To: tariqas@facteur.std.com X-Mailer: Chameleon V0.05, TCP/IP for Windows, NetManage Inc. Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: On Sun, 28 Apr 1996 22:08:11 +1000 (EST) Dien Alfred Rice wrote: > >Alhamdulillah, at this stage, I feel so incredibly free, >compared to the hell I lived in in the past. Personally, >I could never deny the truths I have found in the Tao Te Ching, >in Zen Buddhism, and in Sufism. > >I am a Muslim, and I know that many of my fellow Muslims would >completely disagree with my "mixing" these different religious >traditions.... My answer to this is, a drowning man clutches >whatever is available to him to stop himself from drowning. >Some of these people may judge me, but Allah is the only judge >I accept. > >Or as another saying goes, don't judge me unless you have >walked in my shoes. If you have never felt suicidal, then >you are not competent to judge me. > >For those who are having problems with depresion, my heart goes >out to you, because I know first-hand how difficult it is. >May God guide you to freedom.... never stop striving for it. > > >Wassalam, your brother, > >Farid ud-Dien Rice > it sounds as if, you are Sufi. darrell From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Sun May 5 02:05:40 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA00771; Sat, 4 May 1996 22:22:15 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id WAA19351; Sat, 4 May 1996 22:04:58 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from merak.idola.net.id by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id WAA19347; Sat, 4 May 1996 22:04:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [202.152.0.45] by merak.idola.net.id; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/22Mar96-0518PM) id AA30016; Sun, 5 May 1996 09:05:40 +0700 Date: Sun, 5 May 1996 09:05:40 +0700 Message-Id: <9605050205.AA30016@merak.idola.net.id> X-Sender: barzakh@elang.idola.net.id X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: tariqas@facteur.std.com From: BARZAKH FOUNDATION Subject: Islamic matrilineal society Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: >......... > >And thanks much for the wonderful historical posts from your part of the >world. Do you have any information on Islamic matrilineal societies? I >have heard from travelers that these traditions exist in Indonesia. > >with warm regards > >Lily > > > > Bismillahirrahmanirrahim. Assalamu'alaikum. Dear Sister Lily, Maybe I can give you some information about Islamic matrilineal society in Indonesia, which is the Minangkabau people in West Sumatra province. I myself is half Minangkabau (from my mother) and half Javanese (my father). Islam came to Minangkabau around the 13th century, when its people had already used matrilineal system. Then gradually Islam blended with local custom succesfully (though there was a civil war at the 1820s). Today almost 100% of Minangkabaus embrace Islam. They are known as devout Moslems, excellent merchants and enterpreneurs, and hospitable. You'll find that crime rate in West Sumatra is very very low, mosques are everywhere (maybe too many), plus beautiful lakes, canyon, waterfalls, jungles, etc. as blessings from God, that make this place almost like paradise on earth. Matrilineal system is practiced only at weddings (it's the bride who pays), and at sharing inheritance (it's the daughters and nieces who receive all). Eventhough it's against Islamic law (Sharia), it's going along just fine untill now, maybe because this system gives protection to the women in the family since most men leave home at their teens to find work at other provinces and islands (most do not return, but do send money home). More (brief) info about Minangkabau (West Sumatra) in Internet can be found at: http://www.rad.net.id/ric/indonesia/culture/provinces/w-suma.html In Minangkabau there are also some Sufi orders (tariqas), but not as much as in the Java island with millions of followers. The most famous Sufi-scholar from Minangkabau is the late Haji Abdul Malik Karim Amirullah. I think that's enough for now. Wassalamu'alikum. Michael Roland Secretary of Barzakh Foundation BARZAKH FOUNDATION Wijaya Grand Centre C-3 Jalan Wijaya 2 Kebayoran Baru Jakarta INDONESIA 12160 Phone (62-21) 7234676, 7205622 Fax (62-21) 7205622 E-mail : barzakh@idola.net.id http://www.idola.net.id/inyp/life/barzakh From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Sun May 5 08:04:34 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA25597; Sun, 5 May 1996 04:19:25 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id EAA22055; Sun, 5 May 1996 04:07:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from relay3.jaring.my by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id EAA22051; Sun, 5 May 1996 04:07:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from maarof@localhost) by relay3.jaring.my (8.7.1/8.7.1) id QAA01002; Sun, 5 May 1996 16:04:34 +0800 (MYT) Date: Sun, 5 May 1996 16:04:34 +0800 (MYT) Message-Id: <199605050804.QAA01002@relay3.jaring.my> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: maarof@pc.jaring.my Subject: Maryam Jameela To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Cc: Jawad Qureshi In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: SPRY Mail Version: 04.00.06.17 Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: On Fri, 3 May 1996, Jawad Qureshi wrote: > >Salamz, > >> p.s I still don't know what happened to Maryam Jameelah. > >What specifically are you referring to about Maryam Jameelah? > >Wa salam, >Jawad. asalaam-u-aleikum My memory probably failed me about Maryam Jameela. Several years ago I experienced a feeling of deep loss and sadness, and that experience I still carry today whenever I remembered the words "Maryam Jameela". Was it the news of the death of Maryam Jameela? I 'knew' Maryam mostly from books, especially the book about her corespondeces with Maududi. There are other books by Maryam Jameela. Back in the 70's, one of my hobby was reading books by Ayn Rand. One day a friend handed me a book, a poor-looking one with its soft cover rather unattractive dark green color. The title ... somewhat dull: "Woman In Islam" or something like that. I tossed the book into the waste-paper basket. My friend (a secular Christian) was amazed! With reverrence, he slowly took the book out, and start reading a few pages and said, "Quite good, but rather conservative." That book was by Maryam Jameela. I have read most of her books since then. I has to thank a lot for Maryam. She is the one who guided back this secular Muslim (thru her books) and guided his interest back to al-Quran. Well... Salam Maaruf From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Sun May 5 08:48:22 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA29209; Sun, 5 May 1996 04:57:37 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id EAA26157; Sun, 5 May 1996 04:49:04 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id EAA26149; Sun, 5 May 1996 04:48:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from darice@localhost) by yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA01501; Sun, 5 May 1996 18:48:22 +1000 (EST) Date: Sun, 5 May 1996 18:48:22 +1000 (EST) From: Dien Alfred Rice To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Subject: Re: tariqas - DEPRESSION In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: Dear Darrel, Assalamu alaikum, On Sat, 4 May 1996 fdobbins@alltelga.net wrote: > On Sun, 28 Apr 1996 22:08:11 +1000 (EST) Dien Alfred Rice wrote: > it sounds as if, you are Sufi. I don't think I am that advanced. I am still a student! I am grateful to Allah that He has now freed me from depression, but there is still a long way to go, I'm sure. :) Wassalam Farid ud-Dien Rice From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Sun May 5 11:55:51 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA24578; Sun, 5 May 1996 08:27:26 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id IAA12155; Sun, 5 May 1996 08:18:32 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from brutus by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id IAA12151; Sun, 5 May 1996 08:18:30 -0400 (EDT) From: fdobbins@alltelga.net Received: from disus.alltelga.net (port5.alltelga.net [205.240.158.105]) by brutus (SMI-8.6/8.6.11-1) with SMTP id IAA26074 for ; Sun, 5 May 1996 08:18:26 -0400 Date: Sun, 5 May 96 07:55:51 EDT Subject: Re: tariqas - DEPRESSION To: tariqas@facteur.std.com X-Mailer: Chameleon V0.05, TCP/IP for Windows, NetManage Inc. Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: On Sun, 5 May 1996 18:48:22 +1000 (EST) Dien Alfred Rice wrote: > > >Dear Darrel, Assalamu alaikum, > >On Sat, 4 May 1996 fdobbins@alltelga.net wrote: > >> On Sun, 28 Apr 1996 22:08:11 +1000 (EST) Dien Alfred Rice wrote: > >> it sounds as if, you are Sufi. > >I don't think I am that advanced. I am still a student! > >I am grateful to Allah that He has now freed me from >depression, but there is still a long way to go, I'm sure. :) > > >Wassalam > >Farid ud-Dien Rice > Dear Dien, who am i to judge? but in my novice ideal of sufi, you have broken through a barrier. That barrier is the delusion that you are alone. When you spoke of such experience, i could feel it in my heart as a tug, as part of me speaking. This melding reaches like a wind, spins like a tornado. Something that I thought and wrote while sitting in the wood one morning, that i would like to share: 3/96 The first sunday in march A fleet of thousands sang in my skull today as the migrating spirits swam through the trees, toward me but afraid of the soul receptor in dense attraction: nothing there but an unfelt hole in the universe, who opened a book and read the sky, trees, a squirrel scattering, and a solitary robin inundated by the black mass of movement. At the point of reality in which i lose my self, i find a sharing envelopment of everything into me, into nothing but a cold wind that spears every sense and dream, into: into, a sharp seeing that holds the movement as folding layers of waves rolling across one another toward some unknown but felt destination. The sun shines red fire warmth in a crisp spring thought between winter and summer, and in the contrast of hot and cold, an apple pie and ice cream taste kindles a warm fire in the cold night, settles the light and dark into sunrises and sets, spins the wheel of love and hate so fast that a clarity of nothing seen is found waiting behind the spokes of life--another nothing at the other side of the great circle of my view's limits, an infinite end at the end of the line of one dimensional experiences. That point, the one i cannot see is the one that no one man may survey, it is the depth of not being alone, known, and felt, as a destination beyond the waves of awkward life. Insha'allah, darrell From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Sun May 5 13:14:01 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA06956; Sun, 5 May 1996 09:25:10 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id JAA17177; Sun, 5 May 1996 09:14:31 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from mosconi.worldweb.net by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id JAA17169; Sun, 5 May 1996 09:14:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from uservax.worldweb.net (uservax.worldweb.net [204.117.218.2]) by mosconi.worldweb.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA04607 for ; Sun, 5 May 1996 09:14:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from JIM ([204.117.218.176]) by uservax.worldweb.net with SMTP; Sun, 5 May 1996 9:17:20 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <2.2.32.19960505131401.00339634@worldweb.net> X-Sender: jmccaig@worldweb.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 05 May 1996 09:14:01 -0400 To: tariqas@facteur.std.com From: James McCaig Subject: Re: Masters and Traditions (fwd) Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: At 10:43 AM 4/21/96 -0400, Steve H Rose wrote: > > >---------- Forwarded message ---------- >Date: Thu, 18 Apr 1996 17:05:34 -0400 (EDT) >resources on the Web. My desire has been to find publications like >the Mathnawi which last I checked was out of print. It is a pleasure to inform you that The Mathnawi is very much available (The Nicholson translation) and can be purchased for aobut $100 (all 6 books) at our site and many others including Omega and Threshold. Warm regards, Maharaj James McCaig | Sufi Center of Washington Brotherhood/Sisterhood Representative | Keepers of Sufi Center Bookstore United States | http://guess.worldweb.net/sufi jmccaig@worldweb.net From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Sun May 5 23:34:52 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA27837; Sun, 5 May 1996 19:46:18 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id TAA00671; Sun, 5 May 1996 19:32:52 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from WIZARD.COLORADO.EDU by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id TAA00662; Sun, 5 May 1996 19:32:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from granger.cusys.edu by WIZARD.COLORADO.EDU (PMDF #12158) id <01I4CSCU4WYO8WY8FS@WIZARD.COLORADO.EDU>; Sun, 5 May 1996 17:33 GMT Date: Sun, 05 May 1996 17:34:52 -0600 From: Mike Granger Subject: RE: Varia To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Message-Id: <2.2.16.19960505233452.2e173dfa@wizard.colorado.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: granger_m@wizard.colorado.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: At 11:07 AM 5/4/96 +1000, you wrote: > > >On Fri, 3 May 1996, Mike Granger wrote: > >> This is a typical flip reply by people in favor of total gun >> control. You assume, perhaps, that all people in favor of legalizing >> handgun possesion have a cowboy mentality? Why don't you talk to some >> of the brothers who live in an area like, say, Oakland CA, and ask them >> how smart it would be to go out and NOT have your own handgun. There is >> time and place, and it might not be appropriate at all times or places to >> have a gun on hand, but there are plenty of places and times where it is. >> Certainly having a gun requires training and understanding of it's use, >> of it's potential >> for utter destruction of life. Perhaps not all people have the level >> of intelligence required to be a responsible handgun owner, and I would >> certainly be in favor of stringent testing and background checking, but >> dammit, it's our God-given right to protect ourselves, and if that means >> having my own gun to protect myself or my family if I break down in my car >> in some God-forsaken part of Chicago, then I'll have that gun, whether >> Big Brother lets me or not. > >Assalamu alaikum, > >Br. Abdussalam, you are writing as one who lives in a society where >many criminals are armed, because weapons are easily obtainable. >However, I don't think that this is the case everywhere.... > Last I heard, there was something like nearly one handgun in the USA for every person living here. That's alot of guns circulating, and they are still being made. That's the reality HERE, and thinking that it will ever be difficult for a determined criminal to get one is just denying reality. So, the question becomes, do you want to just make it harder for Mr. Joe Responsible to get his own? Do we just leave Mr. JR at the mercy of the police, or do we allow him to have a fighting chance when the situation arrives, God forbid, when he just might have a need for it, RIGHT NOW, and not when the cops arrive. Any reasoning that one can use against Mr. JR having his own gun is fallacious. Regarding some of the other responses (this one is good), I can only say that I assume, by the average perceived intelligence of most of you in this discussion group, that you've all read certain works of fiction like 1984, or certain parts of history, like Soviet Russian history, or Nazi Germany. Now, those people were not allowed weapons. Draw your own conclusions. >If weapons were much harder to obtain such that it was hard for a >criminal to obtain a weapon, then the criminals would be less >likely to be armed, and the general public would feel less need >to be armed. It seems to me that, from your argument, the options >are either no-one is armed, or everyone is armed. You consider >the first option to be impossible, so you advocate the second >option. I don't think the first option is impossible everywhere, >and I think there are many societies where weapons are hard to >obtain, and few people are armed, and few criminal activities involve >guns at all. (I think Australia is more this type of society >compared to the US -- gun laws are actually stricter here. Tasmania, >where the massacre occurred, happens to have the most lax gun laws in >Australia, which is seen by many as a significant factor. Unfortunately, >though, Australian society does seem to be getting more violent as the >years go by, and I personally support even stricter gun laws to curb it.) > Again, I don't think everyone is capable of intelligently possessing a handgun, but enough are that if they did have a weapon on their person enough of the time, or at least in their car, and certainly in their own homes, methinks that alot of criminals would come up against the unexpected situatin of someone actually facing them with a weapon equally deadly to the one which they have and intend to use in whatever crime it is their intent to commit. A small number of people might suffer some kind of negative consequence of having a gun, such as facing a criminal with a gun they forgot to load and getting their head blown off, but hey, this life is only temporary, and that's a small price to pay for allowing citizens their GOD-GIVEN right to defend themselves. >I don't know if strict gun control is the best option in the US, however; >I am not in the best position to judge that. > >I did spend 6 months in Berkeley (I returned about a year ago). >I admit I was shocked at reading of two armed holdups of a >Berkeley Bagelry while I was there, and also a shooting by a >guy on a bicycle who was trying to get some money from the driver >of a car, a few blocks from my apartment. I'm sure there were >more, because I didn't read the local papers very frequently. I'm not >used to those things happening here in Australia (though the recent >massacre I admit does seem to contradict what I say, it is in fact >harder to get guns here in Australia than I think it is in the US). > I was a night-shift taxi driver in Chicago for 6 years, and was help up at gun-point twice. Now, I couldn't have necessarily done anything to stop them by having had my own gun, which I didn't, but who knows? Alhamdulillah, I wasn't ever hurt, just shaken up (looking down the business end of a sawed-off shotgun makes you do a little shaking afterwards). Even so, I'm certain that if I was ever to drive a taxi again, especially in a big-bad city, I would pack one. Perhaps having Surat al-Kursi inscribed on the gun might keep me out of harm's way, who knows? Bottom line is: people who commit crimes with a deadly weapon need to encounter more victims who are just as willing as they are to use their own gun, facing the Angel of Death themselves, rather than their victims. Finally, I realize that this isn't quite as flowery a topic of discussion as most topics discussed here on this forum, but hey, life really is just a mud puddle. Wa Salam > >Peace, > >Farid ud-Dien Rice > > From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Mon May 6 02:31:21 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA21012; Sun, 5 May 1996 22:50:13 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id WAA23457; Sun, 5 May 1996 22:31:46 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from fellspt.charm.net by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id WAA23452; Sun, 5 May 1996 22:31:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tony.charm.net by fellspt.charm.net ; 5 MAY 96 22:27:56 EDT From: tony@charm.net (Anthony Teelucksingh) To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Subject: Re: Varia Date: Sun, 05 May 1996 22:31:21 -0400 Organization: Rodgers Forge in Towson, Maryland Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <318d6438.39067930@smtp.charm.net> References: <2.2.16.19960503235626.2c77d224@wizard.colorado.edu> In-Reply-To: <2.2.16.19960503235626.2c77d224@wizard.colorado.edu> X-Mailer: Forte Agent .99e/32.227 Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: On Fri, 03 May 1996 17:56:26 -0600, you sent me this email: > This is a typical flip reply by people in favor of total gun control. You assume, perhaps, that all people in favor of legalizing handgun possesion have a cowboy mentality? Why don't you talk to some of the brothers who live in an area like, say, Oakland CA, and ask them how smart it would be to go out and NOT have your own handgun. There is time and place, and it might not be appropriate at all times or places to have a gun on hand, but there are plenty of places and times where it is. Certainly having a gun requires training and understanding of it's use, of it's potential >for utter destruction of life. Perhaps not all people have the level of intelligence required to be a responsible handgun owner, and I would certainly be in favor of stringent testing and background checking, but dammit, it's our God-given right to protect ourselves, and if that means having my own gun to protect myself or my family if I break down in my car in some God-forsaken part of Chicago, then I'll have that gun, whether Big Brother lets me or not. The short of it, brother Mike, is that I'll vote my way, and you'll vote yours. -- Tony Anthony Teelucksingh "Some circumstantial evidence is very strong, as when you find a trout in the milk." -- Henry David Thoreau